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Old 06-25-2009, 09:15 PM   #21
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
NiMUD is not DikuMUD.?
Err? Are you really dense enough to be trying to claim that NiMUD is not derived from Merc and therefore indirectly from DIKU? I assure you, codebases which are derived from DIKU still are licensed under the DIKU license.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davion
Can you explain how these conflictions are resolved?
As a general rule when two licenses conflict the stricter of the two takes precedence. In this case it is a moot point as licensing DIKU derived material as GPL is hands down, 100%, illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke
All I've seen is anecdotal evidence that there even was a problem.
The DIKU Team had access to a copy of Medievia's code and stated with 100% certainty that it was DIKU derived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke
Aside from this, its OLC features are immensely popular and have had tens of thousands of users.
You'd be hard pressed to prove that there are even ten thousand mudders today. There are absolutely not ten thousand MUD admin today, let alone ten thousand using OLC's derived from NiMUD's.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:25 PM   #22
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
Err? Are you really dense enough to be trying to claim that NiMUD is not derived from Merc and therefore indirectly from DIKU? I assure you, codebases which are derived from DIKU still are licensed under the DIKU license.
Yes, he is dense enough. Go look at his Google project page: nimud - Google Code

Quote:
As a general rule when two licenses conflict the stricter of the two takes precedence. In this case it is a moot point as licensing DIKU derived material as GPL is hands down, 100%, illegal.
Those of us who are sane know this, but I think we've pretty well established Locke is not sane.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:55 PM   #23
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

That quote about precedence is not on my project page.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:56 PM   #24
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
You'd be hard pressed to prove that there are even ten thousand mudders today. There are absolutely not ten thousand MUD admin today, let alone ten thousand using OLC's derived from NiMUD's.
Um, ok dude. I think the OLC has had 10,000+ users since 1993 easily. There have been as many as 20000 active muds before, so this number is pretty low.


Merc, Rot, Rom, Emlen, Nimuds currently listed on mudconnect: ~200

Lets say 2 people use OLC per mud, that means there are at least 400 users currently using OLC, probably more since 2 is a conservative figure. Plus, it doesn't include QuickMUD or 1stMUD listings.

Quote:
Search Results: 211 listings found for your search
  1. Arcane Nites [[Rom] Major Modifications]
  2. Top Mud Sites - MUD and RPG Rankings - Mud Database, RPG & MUD Forums, MUD Articles, MUD Reviews [[Rom]]
  3. Top Mud Sites - MUD and RPG Rankings - Mud Database, RPG & MUD Forums, MUD Articles, MUD Reviews [[Envy] 30% Envy, 70% Custom]
  4. Arion: the Nightmare [[Rom] Extremely heavily modified since 2003]
  5. Ark of the Covenant [[Rom] Heavily Modified Rom2.4b4a]
  6. The Adventurers' Inn [[Rom] Completely modified and updated]
  7. Adventures for Ancient Wisdom [[Dikumud] Diku/Envy/Merc with a twist]
  8. Adventures Unlimited [[Rom] 2.4b6(pretty darn good)]
  9. Aladon MUD [[Rom] ROM 2.4 modified]
  10. Ancient Mists [[Rom] Heavily Modified]
  11. Anime Planet [[Rot] Anime Planet [Heavily Modified Rot1.4]]
  12. Top Mud Sites - MUD and RPG Rankings - Mud Database, RPG & MUD Forums, MUD Articles, MUD Reviews [[Rom] Authentic AnimeMUD Code Base]
  13. Anodyne III [[Dikumud] Merc 2.1/SQ 0.63]
Oh by the way I forgot about VoRMUD (Void of Reality) which is a NiMUD derivative bringing the number of derivatives to 5, and I also forgot the italian translation of NiMUD made by Fabrizio Baldi, it is called Lyonesse 1.0 and is now bringing the number to 6.

Last edited by locke : 06-25-2009 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:58 PM   #25
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
The DIKU Team had access to a copy of Medievia's code and stated with 100% certainty that it was DIKU derived.
This is not a court order, then. Hey did you know that "Diku concepts" can't be copyrighted, patented or trademarked? That part of their license falls out of any jurisdictive governance.

Last edited by locke : 06-25-2009 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:13 PM   #26
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
Merc, Rot, Rom, Emlen, Nimuds currently listed on mudconnect: ~200

Lets say 2 people use OLC per mud, that means there are at least 400 users currently using OLC, probably more since 2 is a conservative figure. Plus, it doesn't include QuickMUD or 1stMUD listings.
This assumption is based on there being any shred of believable evidence that you wrote the OLC all those codebases use. Since no such evidence exists, it's entirely possible the number of people using your OLC is exactly 1: Yourself.

The Diku team also does not need a court order to view code that's been provided to them and certify that the code is in fact theirs.

And I don't think anyone here believes for one second that you're in communication with them on this because I'm pretty sure they'd tell you you can go to hell for trying to steal their code the way you are right now.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:23 PM   #27
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This assumption is based on there being any shred of believable evidence that you wrote the OLC all those codebases use. Since no such evidence exists, it's entirely possible the number of people using your OLC is exactly 1: Yourself.
This is an existentialist argument like "Am I really here or is this just a hallucination?"

Evidence:

1) You know that the ROMolc, EnvyOLC and ILAB/OLCs all come with my name on it.

2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copyright.gov
Type of Work: Computer File

Registration Number / Date:
TX0006452128 / 2006-10-27

Title: Online creation ; Isles OLC ; ILAB OLC ; NIMUD OLC, et al.

Copyright Claimant:
Herbert Elwood Gilliland 3rd, 1977-

Date of Creation: 1993

Date of Publication:
1993-10-15

Authorship on Application:
text of software code: Herbert Elwood Gilliland 3rd &
Christopher Woodward, 1976-1995.

Copyright Note: Cataloged from appl. only.

Other Title: Isles OLC
ILAB OLC
NIMUD OLC

Names: Gilliland, Herbert Elwood 3rd, 1977-
Woodward, Christopher, 1976-1995

================================================== ==============================



The US Copyright office reviewed this and approved it. (notice the period)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The Diku team also does not need a court order to view code that's been provided to them and certify that the code is in fact theirs.
Well yes -- they do! Otherwise, it's been handled out of court and is not certified. It's hard to ask for tangible remuneration from free software unless Vryce made money. If he made money, then they have grounds to sue. If he did not, it's hardly worth the court's time, is it?
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:28 PM   #28
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
and I also forgot the italian translation of NiMUD made by Fabrizio Baldi, it is called Lyonesse 1.0 and is now bringing the number to 6.
Umm? No. Lyonesse is a CircleMUD/Smaug derivative (a combination of the two) which features Oasis OLC.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:30 PM   #29
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
If he made money, then they have grounds to sue. If he did not, it's hardly worth the court's time, is it?
Vryce made enough money off of Medievia to supprt his household. He admitted as much on several occasions.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:02 PM   #30
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
Umm? No. Lyonesse is a CircleMUD/Smaug derivative (a combination of the two) which features Oasis OLC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by multiplayer.it
Codici dei MUD: Lyonesse

La maggior parte dei codici che si puo' trovare in rete non e' certo italiana. I MUD italiani, infatti, nonostante magari le numerose modifiche apportate al codice base, sono sempre stati piuttosto gelosi della propria creatura, non rendendo mai disponibile il sorgente modificato.
Il primo codice italiano a noi noto e' quindi Lyonesse 1.0 (ad esso poi sono seguiti altri progetti di cui si parlera' in seguito), nato, piuttosto recentemente, dalla manipolazione del CircleMUD, principalmente, e dalla commistione di altri spunti e caratteristiche di altri codici, come Smaug, NiMUD 4.0, MagmaMUD 3.0 e World of Greyhawk.

Numerose sono le caratteristiche interessanti di questo codice, oltre all'ambientazione e alle aree, che come e' perfettamente intuibile, sono legate all'Atlantide celtica, Lyonesse appunto. Il codice della Wilderness e quello del Sistema Economico, soprattutto, sono le caratteristiche pił interessanti di Lyonesse. Non e' presente la possibilita' di costruire il mondo online (OLC, caratteristica tanto agognata per molti MUD e fornita dal codice Smaug).

Fra le altre caratteristiche si possono annoverare, ad esempio, un sistema atmosferico globale, i veicoli e la navigazione, una nuova gestione della morte, le cavalcature e il sistema magico basato sulla memorizzazione degli incantesimi.

Un altro dato piuttosto insolito e' il fatto che LyonesseMUD e' stato sviluppato sotto Windows con MS Visual C++, il che, necessariamente porta le possibilita' di portabilita' a ridursi ulteriormente, se non si e' in grado di apportare gli opportuni aggiustamenti in modalita' "casalinga".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Google translate:
Most of the codes that you can 'find online is not' some Italian. I MUD italiani, in fact, perhaps despite the numerous changes to the code base, have always been rather jealous of his creatures, not ever making available the modified source.

The first Italian code and known to us' then Lyonesse 1.0 (then it was followed by other projects which will be discussed 'below), was born, quite recently, the manipulation CircleMUD, mainly, and the co-mingling of other ideas and characteristics of other codes, like Smaug, NiMUD 4.0, MagmaMUD 3.0 and World of Greyhawk.

There are many interesting features of this code, in addition to the areas and that as' perfectly understood, are tied all'Atlantide Celtic Lyonesse note. The code of the Wilderness and the Economic System, in particular, are the most interesting features of Lyonesse. Is not 'this the chance' to build the world online (OLC, a much sought after feature for many MUD and code provided by Smaug).

Among other features could include, for example, a global air pollution, vehicles and shipping, a new management of death, the mounts and the magic system based on memorization of spells.

Another rather unusual, 'the fact that LyonesseMUD and' was developed under Windows with MS Visual C + +, which necessarily leads to the possibility 'of portability' to fall further, and if you do not 'able to make the necessary adjustments in mode ' "housewife."
It seems to be still actively developed. A long time ago it (~1999?) was NiMUD 4.0 as the base (Thus, it was originally using my OLC and server) .. note: it talks about OLC here, but I haven't found either Smaug building or OLC in the code. I assume it now has CircleMUD building (Oasis OLC) -- but I can't seem to find exactly where that is. It purports to have taken obj_to_obj() from Smaug.

Last edited by locke : 06-25-2009 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:20 PM   #31
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
ideas and characteristics of other codes, like Smaug, NiMUD 4.0
That does not state it is derived from NiMUD, only that it borrowed idea from NiMUD (ideas can not be copyrighted, only the actual implementation, so borrowing ideas does not mean derivation).

A copy of Lyonesse is available on mudbytes and has the following caption:

Quote:
Description:
A hybrid codebase of Circle and Smaug.

Language: Italian
===
The very first time LyonesseMUD will be executed, it will take 2 minutes
circa to come up, because it have to parse the graphical map and write
10.000 ascii map files.

Following executions, with map files already in place, should take 5 seconds
circa to load the mud.

These times refer to a Pentium IV with 384Mb of ram, and could be different
depending on your hardware configuration.


Fabrizio Baldi (aka Mithrandir)
It includes Oasis OLC, and not any OLC that is derived from NiMUD.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:29 PM   #32
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
That does not state it is derived from NiMUD, only that it borrowed idea from NiMUD (ideas can not be copyrighted, only the actual implementation, so borrowing ideas does not mean derivation).

It includes Oasis OLC, and not any OLC that is derived from NiMUD.
Well, a previous version which is no longer available used NiMUD 4.0 as its starting point. I am searching through my archives of mudolc.org where I hosted a copy (but I don't really feel like digging around for that).

mudOLC.org

I know this because that is around the time I started mentioning it in NiMUD-related descriptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From LyonesseMUD Credits:
Money code Locke ( from NiMUD codebase )
It looks like it was most active during 2002: Internet Archive Wayback Machine

It uses my numberize() function, as well as all of the objective money code from NiMUD 4.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyonesseMUD/objects.c
/* ************************************************** ************** */
/* Money Objects */
/* ************************************************** ************** */
const char *ones_numerals[10] =
{
"zero", "one", "two", "three", "four", "five", "six", "seven", "eight", "nine"
};

const char *tens_numerals[10] =
{
"-", "-", "twenty", "thirty", "forty", "fifty", "sixty", "seventy", "eighty", "ninety"
};

const char *meta_numerals[4] =
{
"hundred", "thousand", "million", "billion"
};

const char *special_numbers[10] =
{
"ten", "eleven", "twelve", "thirteen", "fourteen", "fifteen", "sixteen", "seventeen", "eighteen", "nineteen"
};


/* ================================================== ============== */

/* Take a number like 43 and make it forty-three */
char *numberize(int n)

/* ================================================== ============== */

void update_money(OBJ_DATA *obj)
OBJ_DATA *make_money(int amount)
/*
* Create a set of 'money' objects.
*/
void create_amount(int amount, CHAR_DATA *pMob, ROOM_DATA *pRoom,

Last edited by locke : 06-26-2009 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:57 PM   #33
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

LOL CLASSIC NIMUD WEB GRAPHICS!
nimud.org :: a multi-dimensional adventure
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:11 AM   #34
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Would one of the site moderators please delete this spamming thief's account? It's tiresome to see his delusional lies about some ****-poor codebase that no one uses constantly posted about on the forums.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:15 AM   #35
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
Would one of the site moderators please delete this spamming thief's account? It's tiresome to see his delusional lies about some ****-poor codebase that no one uses constantly posted about on the forums.
I have to say that even Hans doesn't stoop low enough to call me a "thief"


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Last edited by locke : 06-26-2009 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:18 AM   #36
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Evidence:

1) You know that the ROMolc, EnvyOLC and ILAB/OLCs all come with my name on it.

2) The US Copyright office reviewed this and approved it. (notice the period)
1. We know how you go about getting people to erroneously credit you though, so #1 means all of jack ****. Harrassing honest MUD operators into adding your credits when the code isn't even yours doesn't mean much to those of us with brains who know better.

2. Registering the NiMUD OLC does not provide proof that you own the copyright to anything else you keep claiming is derived from it. You have yet to provide such evidence, therefore nobody in their right mind has any reason to take your word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
I have to say that even Hans doesn't stoop low enough to call me a "thief"
Then perhaps he needs to be informed that you in fact are one, because everything I know about him would suggest you haven't spoken to him at all.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:35 AM   #37
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
Would one of the site moderators please delete this spamming thief's account? It's tiresome to see his delusional lies about some ****-poor codebase that no one uses constantly posted about on the forums.
That would be nice. Delete the thread and ban the code thief. Or is piracy endorsed?
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:06 AM   #38
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
1. We know how you go about getting people to erroneously credit you though, so #1 means all of jack ****. Harrassing honest MUD operators into adding your credits when the code isn't even yours doesn't mean much to those of us with brains who know better.

2. Registering the NiMUD OLC does not provide proof that you own the copyright to anything else you keep claiming is derived from it. You have yet to provide such evidence, therefore nobody in their right mind has any reason to take your word for it.



Then perhaps he needs to be informed that you in fact are one, because everything I know about him would suggest you haven't spoken to him at all.
I think that no matter what I say, Samson, you'll insult me and refute it. Goodbye, troll.
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:17 AM   #39
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but if you didn't create 5 different threads about NiMUD and the OLC stuff, Samson would be craftily contained to one single thread. So if he were indeed a troll, you're feeding him big fat billy goats over and over.

Baaaa!
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:19 AM   #40
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Re: NiMUD 5 Re-released Under AL/GPL

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
The US Copyright office reviewed this and approved it. (notice the period)
The US Copyright office does not review or approve copyright filings. They just handle the paperwork and file it for later reference. They do not verify the veracity of any claim for copyright. It is glorified document storage. It is worth doing (and is extremely easy, fast, and cheap), but it does not constitute ratification of copyright ownership by the US Government.

I could send in a copyright filing right now that said I owned the copyright to Harry Potter, and it would most likely be accepted and filed. But when I tried to enforce the copyright, I'd get owned.

Last edited by Threshold : 06-26-2009 at 04:24 AM.
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