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#61 | ||||
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 60
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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I do contribute to several online ezines, and freelance for a few local newspapers and magazines. That actually -makes- money to help with my student budget, instead of being a drain on finances. One day when I've emigrated perhaps I'll consider trying to get published. And for the last fscking time, I did -not- say Arm had NO good writers. Honestly, if the first ten or so people you interact with at various times aren't good writers, chances are that the majority aren't. Yes, there may be clans where the good writers have all flocked together -- I have -never- denied this. There's probably some RP-intense clan on some H&S MUD where they have stellar RP, too -- does that mean that you can't say H&S's don't have good RP in general?? As for the MUSHes I've played, frankly, on your 2nd or 3rd RP scene you will bump into a good writer, most of the time. If I RPed with 10 people on a MUSH and all of them constantly put forth 2 word emotes, I would say the average writing quality there is poor, as well. You're just getting your panties in a rut because people have -dared- to say something bad about -your- favourite genre, which must be -perfect-. Guess I should get my panties all in a rut and take it personally when people say that British people speak better English than Asians in general, too, even though those same people said that they thought Asians were generally good at math. ![]() Last edited by misao : 09-24-2009 at 08:14 AM. |
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#62 | |||
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 60
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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#63 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 71
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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![]() It can also be a result of MUSH roleplay being more focused on character relationships rather than actions, so people preferring having their daily life roleplay with characters that their character has an established connection to. On the other hand, you often see much bigger crowds at public scenes. We've had quite a few tourneys with 15+ people in a room...which admittedly can get just a little hard to follow. ![]() In that sense, I guess it mirrors real life. If you are going to be casually social, you will want to be with your friends, you won't just strike up a conversation with a stranger. On the other hand, you will interact more readily with strangers at a big party. MUDs, on the other hand, would seem to offer more opportunities for people to get together as a group and perform a specific activity, such as a going on a raid together. That gives the group a focus which isn't easily simulated on most MUSHes because there aren't battles to be fought every day. MUSHing definitely isn't the form for regular, grand adventures. |
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#64 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 60
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
I totally agree with this. During my MUSH days (I seem to have MUD-phases and MUSH-phases, heh) I too made the mistake of being elitist and simply not bothering about people whose style of prose I didn't enjoy. In fact, those people tended to be the most proactive ones who always hung around in public areas and initiated RP (because they had to, I guess; they were mostly one-liners, had weird grammar, or took forever to pose), so, to avoid them, I too began to just hide in my room and answer tells selectively. A part of me wished that it didn't have to be that way, though.
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#65 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 45
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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Pub: Me with New Character says, "Hi, everyone." Pub: Everyone else continues talking to each other, generally exchanging in-jokes and chatting about what they are thinking about doing with their characters. Pub: Me, after about five minutes, joins the conversation with a comment. Pub: Someone snarks in response, and the conversation continues. Pub: Me, after about five me minutes, "This bbpost says that Cool Thing is happening. Does anyone want to RP around that?" Pub: Everyone else falls silent, and then the conversation picks up again. I've also played games where I've asked to join a public scene and been welcomed, and yet when I arrive at that place on the grid I can't get anyone to do a set for me without paging several people and can't get anyone to acknowledge that my character is present after I pose him in. In fact, one of the places I clearly remembering that happen was about two years ago on Blood of Dragons. I'm not incompetent, nor do I play uninteresting characters. I do, however, have no patience for people who have open CG games in theory but private games in practice. That's not part of "being a MUSH" - that's part of being rude. |
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#66 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 71
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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Its something we've tried to work on, but old habits die hard. |
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#67 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 60
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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Tried again with another alt some other time. Same problem. Third time, the same. Now, whenever she poses? Honestly, I tend to ignore it most of the time. There's just no danged use responding when she's only gonna pose again after the next 10 poses or so. Things would've changed too much by then and she'd only be responding to the most recent events so why bother? I do agree that some people are just too caught up in elitism that they don't even bother with -anyone- whom they don't know. That is rather saddening, although frankly I've not met very many players like that. |
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#68 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 45
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
Understand, I strongly prefer playing on MUSH/MUX-based games; the best RP I've ever been involved in was on Elendor. But when games post promotions in which they are almost begging for new players, and at the same time they excuse those who ignore new players because being rude is the "culture" of the game, then you have to wonder what game is actually being played. Are new players just there to be an audience for the cool kids who have already arrived?
This whole discussion is making me rethink the advantages of MUDs. At least there the code interacts. |
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#69 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Name: Matt
Posts: 141
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
One feature of some MUDs that can have a bearing on how new players are treated are warfare or faction conflict systems. On such games new players can be a valuable resource within the ongoing faction conflict, rather than simply an interruption or annoyance. This doesn't speak to the quality of the roleplay or interaction of course, but there is a definite incentive there for other players to take the time to help those new to the game.
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#70 | |
Senior Member
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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Something which hasn't been my experience but which has been the common experience of a friend of mine is that in some setting of MUSH (WoD), you get the same group of players who go from game to game playing the exact same characters doing the exact same things. As soon as a new game opens, they create their exact same character and immediately begin plotting the same plot they had the last time. They've "researched" (I use that term loosely since the research is sometimes based on inaccurate stereotypes and employed incorrectly rather than via a plausible method) what they want to know to try and achieve their goals. Their characters are built around those goals and those goals are all they focus on and RP in pursuit of achieving. Same character, same goals, same methods, same reactions and same RP (maybe new poses). The clique goes through their routine and the MUSH closes down having ended in the same outcome over and over again with only the GM's dice determining which of the same set of possible outcomes succeeds. I noticed this when he would complain about the RP he was seeing in MUSH after MUSH in this setting. Mind you, his particular experience may be confined to this setting alone as I've never noticed it in the past when I'd try out MUSH (as I said, I typically couldn't get into the clique in the first place, he's learned tricks of character design that get him noticed inevitably because each of the character types played over and over will seek out the same types of outsider characters time and time again). He's explained it to me many a time and there's a distinct strategy to it but it's not RP, it's a form-letter. That said, he also says that when you do find a good clique of players and you know the strategy, you can find some excellent RP, though this RP is predictable as it follows the same pattern. Sometimes I'm not sure why he puts himself through MUSH after MUSH if they all end the same way: one of several variations based on which strategy reaches its goals first, then him complaining to me on AIM about how they always do the same thing and finally me typing "LOL Then why do you keep playing them?" :-D Jason |
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#71 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 71
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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I also don't agree that it is purposefully rude in 95% of cases when someone fails to be helpful enough. A lot of people who have MUSHed for a good while are vary of new players, because you do get a lot of people showing up who ignore efforts to include them. It goes both ways, its not easy starting out and its not easy working with new players. We get a fair number of newbies who people make an effort to work with and who make no effort in turn. Quote:
That said, there are absolutely elitist cliques on MUSHes. But I also think there are other circumstances that may look similar but in fact just have its roots in insecurities on both sides. And scenes being pre-arranged for specific times? Yes, sure, that's pretty common. If you have a small or smallish playerbase, it kind of makes sense. However, they should be posted up as common knowledge. The advertising comments seem to suggest that somehow the admin are supposed to control or at least dictate how the players interact with new players. Beyond having rules about conduct towards any player, new or old, I would never dream of insisting that someone has to roleplay with another player. That is a very good way of killing someone's interest. That said, I am all for encouraging people to do so when they feel up to it. I am also all for encouraging new players to speak to the admin if they need any help, and in 9 out of 10 cases that never happens. |
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#72 | ||
Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,242
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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I generally try to give good advice. Especially to nice people like you. ![]() |
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#73 |
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,393
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
I enjoyed the time on MUSHes when I played them. It is a good atmosphere for enjoyable storyline style roleplay. I never got the elitist attitude Prof1515 is talking about, perhaps that is more common now? What I find more often now is everyone trying to put down other styles of game play. I believe each genre and game style has its advantages and disadvantages and the choice to accept or deny them is up to the player.
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#74 |
Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,242
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
I think the only elitism we are seeing is from the ARPI folks here. They don't seem to like the idea of there being another subset of MUDs that might have even more intensive roleplay than they do. That's why you only see certain people trying to rip on MUSHes in this thread.
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#75 |
Senior Member
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
Herein lies the problem for me. I don't want to go OOC to setup specific times to roleplay. When I login I expect people to be on and roleplaying, not idling. Idling is a part of hack and slash muds, it shouldn't be freely allowed on a roleplay enforced game. Just my opinion mainly because it's not realistic. If you idle on a true roleplay mud, especially in certain dangerous areas of the game, you will probably end up with a dead character. Permanently dead.
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#76 | |
Senior Member
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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Misao has very similar requirements to my own enjoyment of roleplay he just doesn't see that true RPI's hold the features he's seeking, obviously. You can't login to ANY mud/mush/MU* and instantly get gratified with good writing and roleplay. You have to find your niche on that game because many games cater to many different types of people and roleplay. Unfortunately MUSHes have no players and use a system of "meet and greets" instead of a In-character world frame 24/7 like an RPI does. |
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#77 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 60
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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#78 |
Senior Member
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
With the requirements you list, you'll never be satisfied with MUSH. But you sure can keep looking.
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#79 | |
Senior Member
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
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Delerak, although it doesn't appear misao is very well-versed on RPIs, what they have shown preference for indicates that their tastes seem to favor MUSHes, MOO or MUX type games and thus the point is moot. Thus it really doesn't seem to warrant suggesting or arguing for misao to try a RPI. It's also not necessary for the same flame-baiters to try and start arguments over it again and again. I'd also recommend misao or anyone else not ignore people since I have yet to see any good that becomes of this. Nearly everyone at some time or another posts something informational and of some value, even if it's only a post which demonstrates their ignorance (since that gives you a barometer to measure the quality of the information they're providing in similar discussion), and ignoring an individual only serves to limit your knowledge. As many of the arguments on TMS stem from ignorance coupled with an overblown emphasis on opinion, why contribute to the problem? Later, Jason |
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#80 |
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,393
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Re: What are the differences between a MUD and a MUSH?
Couple of things.
Tells (telepathy in NWA) is not OOC it is an ability of every sentient being in this world and is completely IC. I know on many games this is a completely ooc function. Ignoring people on TMS. I believe strongly that you should ignore people that the Sys Op hasn't taken time or inclination to remove or ban. There are people on TMS that do not add to the collective progress of Text MUDs in general. They are a virus to an otherwise healthy group. They weaken our cause (whether intentionally or not) and sometimes I think they do it on purpose or just for kicks, either way it is reprehensible. Ignore is a good feature and should be used when needed. |
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