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Old 09-28-2010, 09:48 PM   #141
silvarilon
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qzzrbl View Post
Just to clarify, I don't look down on RP-enforced, non-RPI-- or even non-RP muds at all. There's something out there for everybody.

Do I think RPIs are superior and wish there was a bit more variety to the RPI mud market? Sure... But everybody's got their own opinion on things, y'know?
I apologize if I made it sound like you were looking down on the other types of MUDs. I was running that risk when I used you as an example, and it's entirely my fault. It was just a useful example of how the term leads to certain language use

And, of course you think RPIs are superior! If you didn't, you wouldn't be playing one! That's the way it should be
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:12 AM   #142
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Oh my god. It's the set of features that make the roleplay intensive. Permadeath being the main one. If your character is permanently dead that's more intensive then if he can die over and over and keep coming back right?

It's pretty damn simple. The way the RPI Mud's code the features and have it set up make roleplay more intensive for the player. You will be far more invested in a character that will be gone forever rather then a character that if you die with gets resurrected at the Temple of Whatever 112th God of that mud.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:16 AM   #143
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by Delerak View Post
Oh my god. It's the set of features that make the roleplay intensive. Permadeath being the main one. If your character is permanently dead that's more intensive then if he can die over and over and keep coming back right?
There you go. Succinct and to the point.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:35 AM   #144
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by Delerak View Post
It's pretty damn simple. The way the RPI Mud's code the features and have it set up make roleplay more intensive for the player. You will be far more invested in a character that will be gone forever rather then a character that if you die with gets resurrected at the Temple of Whatever 112th God of that mud.
Yeah, that's kinda exactly the snooty "of course our arbitrary feature choices automatically make everything more awesome" RPI attitude in a nutshell. Thanks for the illustration.

I could see that logic working, sure. I could also see people being less willing to get intensely invested in a character when everything they put into it can be zeroed out in a split second by some jackass -- and there being some relationship between this and the RPI burnout that leads to the much-whinged-about phenomenon of RPIs dumbing down their environment in order to attract and retain RP-ignorant newbies.

Permadeath has things going for it, sure, but the idea that it's an unqualified enhancer of total awesome radness just shows that people haven't read their Bartle.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:16 AM   #145
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by chaosprime View Post
Yeah, that's kinda exactly the snooty "of course our arbitrary feature choices automatically make everything more awesome" RPI attitude in a nutshell. Thanks for the illustration.
Whatever.

Quote:
I could see that logic working, sure. I could also see people being less willing to get intensely invested in a character when everything they put into it can be zeroed out in a split second by some jackass -- and there being some relationship between this and the RPI burnout that leads to the much-whinged-about phenomenon of RPIs dumbing down their environment in order to attract and retain RP-ignorant newbies.
It doesn't matter what you see, the RPI mud player's will speak for themselves. You get more invested in something that you can lose. This is true in the real world as well. When we die in real life, it's a tragedy and we mourn the loss of that person. The same is true in an RPI mud. Well, sometimes people celebrate death, just like we do in the real world (ie: saddam hussein).

Quote:
Permadeath has things going for it, sure, but the idea that it's an unqualified enhancer of total awesome radness just shows that people haven't read their Bartle.
[/quote]
How does reading Bartle have anything to do with what makes an RPI mud what it is? He writes great articles but as far as I know he hasn't even played an RPI. Have you?
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:57 PM   #146
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

RPI Guidelines

I've noticed that roleplaying is not part of the list of RPI guidelines.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:15 PM   #147
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombalance View Post
RPI Guidelines

I've noticed that roleplaying is not part of the list of RPI guidelines.
There's a reason it's not listed. Roleplaying is subjective. Saying you roleplay on a MUD that uses names instead of sdescs sounds ridiculous to me, but I'm sure you take it serious and consider yourself roleplaying. Everybody defines it differently, so no it's not required to have an RPI mud really.

It's those sets of features that cater to a roleplay intensive environment though. Doesn't mean the players are going to adhere to an IC environment though.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:53 PM   #148
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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There's a reason it's not listed. Roleplaying is subjective. Saying you roleplay on a MUD that uses names instead of sdescs sounds ridiculous to me, but I'm sure you take it serious and consider yourself roleplaying. Everybody defines it differently, so no it's not required to have an RPI mud really.

It's those sets of features that cater to a roleplay intensive environment though. Doesn't mean the players are going to adhere to an IC environment though.
And the argument goes on. Let's face it:

MUDs that follow the RPI Guidelines listed above have their place and have some things players like, are good at and are enjoyable. They also have things that are rediculous that players don't like and are not enjoyable.

MUDs that do not follow the RPI Guidelines listed above have their place and have some things players like, are good at and are enjoyable. They also have things that are rediculous and players don't like and are not enjoyable.

In other words, it is fully subjective and up to the player to decide what is best. Just like reviewing a book or movie. Trying to make a statement of fact in a subjective argument is impossible.
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:14 AM   #149
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

For what it's worth, I agree with pretty much everything Delerak just said-- despite his shady reputation around these parts.

And so would damn near everybody else who play RPI muds exclusively.

Y'know, Newworlds, it's pretty bad form to start a thread that, by all appearances, caters to RPI players-- and then drag it into yet another thread arguing about RPI vs. Everything else with RP....

Some other folks too-- try not to post in threads you apparently have no real interest in.

You'll look alot better in the long-run.

Last edited by Qzzrbl : 10-05-2010 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:20 PM   #150
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by Qzzrbl View Post
Y'know, Newworlds, it's pretty bad form to start a thread that, by all appearances, caters to RPI players-- and then drag it into yet another thread arguing about RPI vs. Everything else with RP....
You might want to re-read through the thread to see who actually derailed it and who tried to keep it on track.
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:31 PM   #151
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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You might want to re-read through the thread to see who actually derailed it and who tried to keep it on track.
Alright, lemme see here....

Let's get the play-by-play, John Madden!



Alright Qzzrbl!

I see some product-placement, then on page 2, I see Newworlds and Threshold going on about OOC communication and chats within the game itself!

Did you know that minimized OOC communication is generally a pretty big thing for many RPI players? Alot of people who don't play or have any interest in RPI muds don't really understand this fact! But here we see people arguing and rabbling about it, including the guy who made this thread! What's he doing?!

And then we see Newworlds and some others arguing about the term RPI on page three! And on that same page, we see Threshold joining DonathinFrye on his leaving of this thread.

Reading along....

Reading along....

I swear, it seems like some people are just trying to get that post count up!

Wait! Whoah! What's this?!

Newworlds returns to this thread on the very next page, stating he didn't think it would turn into a flame war, and saying he wished the arguing would stop, 'cause it's childish!

I tell ya, Qzzrbl, he -really- should read back on some of what he posts before posting again.

And then we see more folks trying to make RPI players look like elitist snobs....

This has been an exhausting thread to read, Qzzrbl, I'ma bow out on this one for now, just gimme a shout when you want me to go more in-depth, alright?
______________________

Thanks John Madden, that was pretty much all I needed for now.
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:33 AM   #152
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by Qzzrbl View Post
Alright, lemme see here....Let's get the play-by-play, John Madden!
Stick for football Madden, your facts are much more precise. Qzzrbl, you can stick with comedy, it did work, it was funny.
Quote:
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I see some product-placement, then on page 2, I see Newworlds and Threshold going on about OOC communication and chats within the game itself!
Actually what you see on page 1 is discussion of veterans of RPI and an attempt at positive discussion from a negative start. On page 1 still (not page 2) the discussion is brought up about OOC channels by who? NW? No. Jackal59MO2. Then commented on by NW and Threshold and Proph1515. Then extended by numerous others in discussions.

On Page 2 NW actually asks why this discussion turns into a defense of RPI guidelines. An attempt to bring the topic around. Proph1515 does the same.

At the bottom of page 2 Parhelion calls a foul so to speak on the narrowing of the thread and NW agrees.
At the top of page 3 NW responds to Proph1515 agreeing with him on the reason for the thread and as it was getting out of hand elected to leave the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qzzrbl View Post
Did you know that minimized OOC communication is generally a pretty big thing for many RPI players? Alot of people who don't play or have any interest in RPI muds don't really understand this fact!
Really. I should think with the previous threads and 1000's of posts on the topic they do in fact understand it better than you do. Oh, and by the way, way to bring back up the OOC discussions that ended 2 pages ago. Derail.

And then we see Newworlds and some others arguing about the term RPI on page three! And on that same page, we see Threshold joining DonathinFrye on his leaving of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qzzrbl View Post
Reading along....Wait! Whoah! What's this?!
Newworlds returns to this thread on the very next page, stating he didn't think it would turn into a flame war, and saying he wished the arguing would stop, 'cause it's childish!
Unfortunately you failed to read on where NW agrees with Proph1515 and says the thread went off topic during flame posts and included NW in part of the reason.

Guess you forgot to read along and see DonathinFrye's return (you happily failed to mention) and failed to mention your sudden appearance on the scene not talking about the main topic but like so many others defending the meaning of RPI standards and again on Permadeath comments.

You later state you don't look down on RPE's but in the same breath claim superiority of RPI. Please. You later finally admit your animosity and transparent position on the post I'm replying to and have the audacity to claim others have ulterior motives. In fact your entire existence on TMS seems to be focussed on this thread alone. Gimme a break, troll much?
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:37 AM   #153
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by Newworlds View Post
Qzzrbl, you can stick with comedy, it did work, it was funny.
That was the aim, thank ya.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Newworlds View Post
Actually what you see on page 1 is discussion of veterans of RPI and an attempt at positive discussion from a negative start. On page 1 still (not page 2) the discussion is brought up about OOC channels by who? NW? No. Jackal59MO2. Then commented on by NW and Threshold and Proph1515. Then extended by numerous others in discussions.
Right.... Page one was alright.

That's why I didn't touch on it

And that was Jackal's -only post in this thread-.

It's like you (and some others) just picked up his flag and ****ing -ran- with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newworlds View Post
On Page 2 NW actually asks why this discussion turns into a defense of RPI guidelines. An attempt to bring the topic around. Proph1515 does the same.

Urm... You didn't do terribly much at all to try to turn the topic around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Newworlds View Post
Oh, and by the way, way to bring back up the OOC discussions that ended 2 pages ago. Derail.
Seriously....?

Don't be a child about it.

You know damn well this thread is -well- beyond any hope of getting back on topic.

Mostly because you didn't put much effort to turn it around.

Anyhow, my next post will contain a summary of a vast majority of the posts, so we can see Qzzrbl's play-by-play.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:45 AM   #154
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

TIME FOR QZZRBL'S FAILED-THREAD PLAY-BY-PLAY!

On page two, I see the discussion slowly start careening off the dusty trail.... It goes from NW Praising other folks for updates on projects and whatnot, then Silvarilon makes a post that touches on why RPI Veterans may be leaving, and then NW brings the discussion to soft fiction.

A few posts goes on about soft fiction and magic etc., etc. (Which isn't really at all close the question posed in the OP.

And then DonathinFrye plugs his mud Atonement.

And then NW apologizes about the derail.

And then the derail -continues- about magical messengers.

And then DonathinFrye plugs Atonement again.

And then Fifi touches on why RPI veterans may leaving. (POSSIBLY ON TOPIC AGAIN?!)

A couple of more posts not really worth mentioning.

And the Jackal made his post. (which was the -only- post he made.... NW did his fair share of running with the topic.)

And then NW quoted Jackal's post, saying that hunger code (a bit of a staple to many RPI players) is lame.

And then NW continued to say stuff about how on NWA they have OOC channels that you can block out, etc., etc., etc., product placement, etc.

By all appearances, NW seems to be agreeing with Jackal's big derailing post.

Then Threshold pipes in with stuff about OOC channels.

Prof posts some stuff that wasn't a complete and total derail.

Then NW quotes Threshold, continuing on with crap about OOC channels.

Then Vanliew posts something.... I'm still not sure what the point of that post was.

And then DonathinFrye replies to Prof, throwing in another plug for Atonement in his reply.

Then Oliver pokes his head in and says he'll give Atonement a try. (I guess shameless advertising works every now and then).

Delerak gives his opinion on why Veterans may be leaving RPIs.

NW replies to Delerak, thinly veiling an advert for NWA.

Then DonathinFrye posts, saying more stuff about OOC channels.

Then NW replies to DonathinFrye's post, doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to get the thread back on track and going on more about OOC channels.

Then DonathinFrye defends RPI players, stating that many will go to great lengths to preserve their immersion in the game.

Then Parhelion posts, agreeing with DonathinFrye, and saying more stuff about OOC channels.

Then Threshold posts more about OOC channels.

Then NW defends OOC channels some more.

Then Jazuela says more stuff about OOC channels.

Parhelion-- more OOC channel stuff.

Threshold. OOC channel stuff.

Threshold. MORE OOC channel stuff.

Sombalance. OOC channel stuff.

NW, more OOC channel stuff. Doing -absolutely nothing whatsoever- to get the discussion back on topic.

NW then asks why the discussion always turns to RPI players try to defend their guidelines. (probably because RPI players are the minority in the MUD community, and many folks give them a hard time about silly stuff)

Then Parhelion posts, which can be summarized with this quote. "Threshold, I think you're letting you're success as an admin go to your head here, because your response REEKS of "I'm right because I say so."

Jazuela thanks Parhelion.

Prof posts, bringing up my exact point.

Sombalance makes a post that had no impact on anything.

Prof makes a typically long-winded post that was tl;dr.

Some more stuff, some more stuff, some more stuff.

NW makes a post that makes alot of RPI players look like a bunch of snobby asshats. (Good move, for a thread you started for RPI veterans.)

Milawe posts. Nothing terribly important.

Fifi makes a good point in a reply to NW. "You're not really a big fan of RPI's are you? Did it really not occurr to you that soliciting opinions with people who left because they were unhappy was slanted to show RPI's in the worst possible light?"

Getting tired, going to highlight only relevant posts from here on.

NW makes a post saying he's not a fan of the term RPI. Which oddly enough, he made this thread for RPI players to discuss RPI stuff. And then NW spouts some self-righteous bull**** about how he recommends RPI muds to some folks.

Then NW throws up some more advertisement, stating that his playerbase is growing.

Then NW stretches his epeen and tries to make it sound like this: "I post alot here, about every other day. So my opinion matters more."

And then NW goes on to say he wants discussion, not negative innuendo. (Which.... Just read back. He's spouted plenty of that himself.)



Honestly, I don't want to keep doing this.

So I'll stop here.

But I -will- touch on my own post. Which, it certainly wasn't on-topic, but the thread had degenerated so much, that doesn't even matter. And it's -very- possible to think something's superior without looking down on everything else.

Kinda like Dr. Pepper and Dr. K.

Sure. Dr. Pepper is better, but I'll drink the **** out of Dr. K if it's on sale.

Oh, and here's a summary of just -your- posts, NW.

Check it out!

Doesn't make you look too good. I'm not flaming. I'm not trolling, I'm just letting you know. Because you seem to be entirely oblivious to it.



NEWWORLDS' POST SUMMARIES!

And then NW apologizes about the derail.

And then NW quoted Jackal's post, saying that hunger code (a bit of a staple to many RPI players) is lame.

And then NW continued to say stuff about how on NWA they have OOC channels that you can block out, etc., etc., etc., product placement, etc.

By all appearances, NW seems to be agreeing with Jackal's big derailing post.

Then NW quotes Threshold, continuing on with crap about OOC channels.

NW replies to Delerak, thinly veiling an advert for NWA.

Then NW replies to DonathinFrye's post, doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to get the thread back on track and going on more about OOC channels.

Then NW defends OOC channels some more.

NW, more OOC channel stuff. Doing -absolutely nothing whatsoever- to get the discussion back on topic.

NW then asks why the discussion always turns to RPI players try to defend their guidelines. (probably because RPI players are the minority in the MUD community, and many folks give them a hard time about silly stuff)

NW makes a post that makes alot of RPI players look like a bunch of snobby asshats. (Good move, for a thread you started for RPI veterans.)

NW makes a post saying he's not a fan of the term RPI. Which oddly enough, he made this thread for RPI players to discuss RPI stuff. And then NW spouts some self-righteous bull**** about how he recommends RPI muds to some folks.

Then NW throws up some more advertisement, stating that his playerbase is growing.

Then NW stretches his epeen and tries to make it sound like this: "I post alot here, about every other day. So my opinion matters more."

And then NW goes on to say he wants discussion, not negative innuendo. (Which.... Just read back. He's spouted plenty of that himself.)
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:56 AM   #155
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I support the previous post.
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:09 PM   #156
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

In summation: Qzzrbl creates an account. Qzzrbl focuses exclusively on the RPI thread. Qzzrbl agrees with everything Delerak said and claims that everyone else who plays RPIs exclusively would as well.

'nuff said.
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:21 PM   #157
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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In summation: Qzzrbl creates an account. Qzzrbl focuses exclusively on the RPI thread. Qzzrbl agrees with everything Delerak said and claims that everyone else who plays RPIs exclusively would as well.

'nuff said.
What exactly is your point here? That Qzzrbl is somehow connected with me? I can't say I've ever even seen him/her here or anywhere.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:29 PM   #158
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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In summation: Qzzrbl creates an account.
I've created an account.... You've created an account....

Everyone who posts here has created an account.

What's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newworlds View Post
Qzzrbl focuses exclusively on the RPI thread.
First thread that really caught my attention.

I haven't really been on these forums for very long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newworlds View Post
Qzzrbl agrees with everything Delerak said and claims that everyone else who plays RPIs exclusively would as well.
Now now, Mr. Newworlds, please don't sink so low as to try and put words in my mouth, yeah?

My exact statement was, "For what it's worth, I pretty much agree to everything Delerak just said."

Now you see that word "just"?

That implies that I agree with everything he said recently before my own post-- namely this one.

Let's analyze it a bit, shall we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delerak View Post
Oh my god. It's the set of features that make the roleplay intensive. Permadeath being the main one. If your character is permanently dead that's more intensive then if he can die over and over and keep coming back right?

It's pretty damn simple. The way the RPI Mud's code the features and have it set up make roleplay more intensive for the player. You will be far more invested in a character that will be gone forever rather then a character that if you die with gets resurrected at the Temple of Whatever 112th God of that mud.
Now, fellow readers will note, NW said, "claims that everyone else who plays RPIs exclusively would as well." like I'm trying to make myself sound like an authority on RPIs or something silly like that.... I'm really not.

But anyhow!

One of the key features of RPI muds, is permadeath.

Just read Delerak's post I just quoted.

If you can't stand permadeath, then odds are, you sure as hell aren't playing an RPI exclusively.

Try something for me, NW.

Go the the forum for any RPI out there-- Atonement, SOI, Armageddon.... Go to their forums and ask them if they all like permadeath.

I'd bet you'll get a resounding, "YES! WE LIKE PERMADEATH! GET OUT OF OUR FORUMS BEFORE YOU LOWER THE PROPERTY VALUE LIKE YOU DID ON THE TMS FORUMS!"
___________________________________________

Also, please stop trying to weasel out of the discussion at hand.

"Qzzrbl's play-by-play" I wrote up for you?

Just gonna ignore that?






P.S. Delarak and I have no real affiliation whatsoever.

He left Armageddon before I even started playing it.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:38 PM   #159
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Here's my condensed summation.

Newworlds makes thread about RPIs. Newworlds lets it degenerate into stupidity. Newworlds advertises his mud a handful of times, and then argues in support of one of the big no-nos in the RPI community, OOC channels in the game. Newworlds then tries to blame everyone else when he's called on it, and dodges Qzzrbl's points.

See, there's a reason you don't go to a political forum, start a discussion catering to an extremist right-wing party-- and then try to inject your own opinions into their brains and try to get them to join -your- party like they're too stupid to see that you did there.

It just won't end well.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:58 PM   #160
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Home MUD: Primordiax
Home MUD: Threshold
Posts: 178
MudMann will become famous soon enough
Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qzzrbl View Post
Here's my condensed summation.

Newworlds makes thread about RPIs. Newworlds lets it degenerate into stupidity. Newworlds advertises his mud a handful of times, and then argues in support of one of the big no-nos in the RPI community, OOC channels in the game. Newworlds then tries to blame everyone else when he's called on it, and dodges Qzzrbl's points.

See, there's a reason you don't go to a political forum, start a discussion catering to an extremist right-wing party-- and then try to inject your own opinions into their brains and try to get them to join -your- party like they're too stupid to see that you did there.

It just won't end well.
Mentioning your game in context / as example is not advertising, and isnt banned so stop bringing it up as a weapon. Personally I dont think anyone had the right to make a set of rules that define something which is purely personal, i.e how intense RP is and the fact that they HAVE is why these arguments occur.

These forums breakdowns re. RPI and its definition will stop when new definitions are penned that do not try to define an experience which can change from player to player and game to game.

I have been playing muds for a long time (double figures in years), interactive fiction since 1981, and Role playing games for just as long. I do not accept the criteria that makes an RPI game according to some set of rules that define game mechanics laid down ages ago by a dwindling group of people.

Hence I dont respect it, and laugh at anyone who can point at a list and say "Sorry Threshold, you fail on OOC channels so you are not a role play intensive game" when it was so unbelievably intensive that after 3.5 years of play I had to quit. Yet the 'rpi' game Armeggedon, so RP -Intense- I was killed walking down the street for no reason whatsoever just getting my bearings... ooooo INTENSE RP! Left me quivering and my mind buzzing from the experience... oh..wait...

New definitions need to be defined before these pointless derailings stop. The current RPI rules in my opinion should be more accuratly defined for the most part as "Real Life Mechanic" games, or "Invisible Mechanic games", or whatever it takes to distance from 'Roleplay Intensive' as the current definitions and have nothing to do with RP or its intensity. I honestly feel that the very definition of RPI some would have us accept is actually bordering on farce and false advertising

Last edited by MudMann : 10-06-2010 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Expanding end paragraph as I have not given much thought to what term can be used, or actually care that much
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