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View Poll Results: What expansions for the acronym MUD are valid?
Multi-User Dungeon 13 81.25%
Multi-User Dimension 7 43.75%
Multi-User Domain 10 62.50%
Multi-User Dialogue 1 6.25%
Multi-User Discourse 1 6.25%
Multi-User Dominion 2 12.50%
Multi-User Dragon 1 6.25%
Multi-Undergraduate Destroyer 4 25.00%
Other (please post your thoughts) 2 12.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-01-2011, 12:29 PM   #1
chaosprime
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MUD - What can it validly stand for?

In the what should MUD stand for thread, I said that I thought a much better poll would be a multiple-choice one where you could select all expansions for MUD that you consider valid. Well, here is that poll. My thinking is that the design of the other poll heavily biases toward Multi-User Dungeon because most people see that as the most valid expansion of MUD, but many of those same people accept other expansions as valid, while the poll forces them to indicate support only for their "best" choice. Let's see if there's a meaningful difference here.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:57 PM   #2
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

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Old 02-25-2011, 12:32 PM   #3
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Kavir answered your question of what MUD can validly stand for. What else people may believe it stands for is irrelevant. If you go to a car dealership and buy a vehicle that's advertised as 4WD and find out it's only 2-wheel drive, you have a legitimate argument against the dealer. Even if the dealer tries to claim that 4WD stand for "4 (windshield) Wiper Devices" it's not valid. Even if everyone at his dealership insists this is so, it doesn't validate it one iota more. When referring to a term within a set context, the valid definition is that which adheres to the parameters of its original use. Anything else might be called valid but only so far as ANYTHING ELSE is valid. Hence saying MUD stands for Multi-User Dimension is just as valid as saying it stands for Mordecai's Ugly Domicile.

I still like Monkey's Uncle's Delusion myself! :-D
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:44 PM   #4
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Perhaps you missed the part where KaVir and I discussed it and arrived at a conclusion that allowed plenty of validity for the Dimension and Domain expansions. Either way, clearly a majority of the people who've bothered to vote on this poll disagree with you, which warms my heart.

Of course, the self-serving politics of your position are laughably obvious; if we can't assert iron-fisted originalist control over the usage of the term MUD, we can hardly assert iron-fisted originalist control over the usage of the term RPI, can we? So, yeah. Thanks for playing, hope you enjoy our home game.
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:36 AM   #5
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosprime View Post
Perhaps you missed the part where KaVir and I discussed it and arrived at a conclusion that allowed plenty of validity for the Dimension and Domain expansions.
If a conclusion was reached, what good is this poll with other options which were not found to be valid? Besides which, polls mean nothing since they don't offer any evidence or reasoning, just pure unadulterated worthless opinion alone. Speaking of which...

Quote:
Either way, clearly a majority of the people who've bothered to vote on this poll disagree with you, which warms my heart.
Majorities mean nothing. Just because a majority of people believe something doesn't lend it any authority or validity.

I'll also point out that I voted for more than one option in this poll for the simple reason that it's an unscientific poll that is poorly worded and I can still cast my vote in it for Monkey's Uncle's Delusion.

Quote:
Of course, the self-serving politics of your position are laughably obvious; if we can't assert iron-fisted originalist control over the usage of the term MUD, we can hardly assert iron-fisted originalist control over the usage of the term RPI, can we?
I never even thought about the term RPI in responding. Besides, the arguments for the misuse of the term RPI have been so thoroughly beaten down that it hasn't been mentioned for what's probably a record amount of time on these forums.
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:48 AM   #6
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

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Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
If a conclusion was reached, what good is this poll with other options which were not found to be valid?
The poll is just a counterpoint to Scandum's, which he started because he wanted to see what kind of community support various terms had.

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Majorities mean nothing. Just because a majority of people believe something doesn't lend it any authority or validity.
It's about a social construct, not the atomic weight of tungsten.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:38 AM   #7
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
Kavir answered your question of what MUD can validly stand for. What else people may believe it stands for is irrelevant. If you go to a car dealership and buy a vehicle that's advertised as 4WD and find out it's only 2-wheel drive, you have a legitimate argument against the dealer. Even if the dealer tries to claim that 4WD stand for "4 (windshield) Wiper Devices" it's not valid. Even if everyone at his dealership insists this is so, it doesn't validate it one iota more.
First off you could do without a lot of the arrogance that seems to flow from your responses. Cuteness on your "choice" at the end aside.

Your analogy doesn't hold water for one simple reason I can address right now. What MUD can stand for and what 4WD can stand for are completely different. Why? 4WD has always been established to mean 4 Wheel Drive and no other definition for it has ever been made (that I am aware of) or reached permeation throughout the general populace. Where as MUD has many different meanings throughout the general populace that is aware of MUDs in the first place.

For you to find a better analogy you would be fighting against your own point of course. Seeing as a better more fitting analogy to this scenario would be evidence for the general way meanings are ascribed to acronyms. Regardless of what you may want, or how you may want things defined. The original meanings of things are not always the most valid. Language and the meanings of words evolve independent of their original sources.

This doesn't give excuse for just anyone to come along and hijack the meaning of something though. However that situation is FAR different from the one we are discussing where a vast amount of people are involved with no agenda of their own (for the most part). MUD's original meaning is justifiably Multi User Dungeon but it's valid meaning is not locked down to that. It just isn't and to argue against it is about the same as arguing that the word "cool" just means a lower temperature than lukewarm instead of also; good, nice, hip, etc. etc. etc. etcetera...
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:53 AM   #8
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Why do you guys even care? It's not like someone is going to log into your game and be disappointed when they discover it's a Multi User Domain and they were expecting a Dimension.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:42 PM   #9
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

It's strictly an intellectual discussion as far as I am concerned. There is no impact really on the outcome of the poll or the discussion.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:13 PM   #10
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

It's probably completely inconsequential, but not necessarily. The reason the polls happened in the first place was a dispute between Scandum and myself over the Wikipedia article on MUDs; he wanted the Dimension and Domain expansions to be shuffled off into the TinyMUD section, while I wanted them to be noted in the article lead (with Dungeon described as the original expansion and Dimension/Domain mentioned as later variants). Scandum wanted his poll to demonstrate that the community has abandoned or never really adopted the Dimension/Domain expansions so as to support his position, which may have some small relation to the other poll's heavy biasing toward Dungeon, that I mention below. The other poll didn't really accomplish that, but this one really drives the message home.
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:58 PM   #11
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orrin View Post
Why do you guys even care? It's not like someone is going to log into your game and be disappointed when they discover it's a Multi User Domain and they were expecting a Dimension.
I agree with you Orrin, though I do accept that the D stands for Dungeon.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:29 PM   #12
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Many Unimportant Disagreements.
Manifold Ubiquitous Dinks.
Monkey Umpire Doctor!

(BTW: "dungeon" ... and should the percentages in the poll results add up to 264.75%?)
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:25 PM   #13
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Maybe someone cheated and set the poll internally without thinking about the percentages.
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:13 PM   #14
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

You can select multiple options; that's why the selector is a checkbox, not a radio button. That's the point of this poll relative to the other one: letting people who consider there to be multiple valid expansions express that. So yes, the percentages can add up to anything up to 900%.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:31 PM   #15
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

That's exactly what a cheater would say!
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:38 PM   #16
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

Yes, absolutely, it sure is. Now take your meds like a good lad.
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:11 PM   #17
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Re: MUD - What can it validly stand for?

A cheater would call his accuser's metal state into question!

Anyway, I originally was implying it was someone rigging it toward Dungeon (in jest). I won't carry on the derailing of this topic. I have no problems with the results of the poll. It shows the great diversity possible that I originally argued for. MUD doesn't just have to mean Multi User Dungeon like some would like to assert.
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