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Old 01-22-2012, 10:33 AM   #21
KaVir
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Re: Why I leave MUDs - Misha's version

While Misha Locke was apparently just trolling (and I wonder if the name was really a coincidence), I do think some of the original points had merit. In particular, points 1 and 2 are issues that I've encountered on many other muds (and which I've tried to improve on my own). Lowering the entry barrier for new player is a good goal to strive for.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:00 PM   #22
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Re: Why I leave MUDs - Misha's version

Kavir,

I agree as well; some of the points I do consider legitimate:

1- long character creation. I've personally left muds simply for this reason.

2 - no initial goal or quest. This is a bigger problem than most people realize, and it's harder to solve well than most think.

3 - inner circles and cliques. I only consider this a problem when it involves favoritism by the staff. I've largely tried to deal with it by restricting immortal powers and making the god/mortal social interface well defined. Other than that, player only groups and cliques IMHO should be ignored by the staff until they cause break harassment or other rules.

4 - rude players and immortals. IMHO, this depends on the forum. We allow very little rudeness on the newbie helper channels, but substantially more on other channels. Player created channels are moderated by the players, so if you don't like someone being rude, leave their channel, kick them off the channel, or ignore them.

5a - slow leveling. This really depends on what you mean by slow; at low levels, getting a couple levels an hour is no big deal. At the extreme upper levels, it can take a minimum of an entire month to gain a single level. One thing we've been trying to work on is make it so that mob grinding isn't required at lower levels. It's entirely possible to get up to level ten never going through the same area twice, but after that things get more grindy.

5b - level restricted equipment. This is entirely personal taste, and I personally like level restricted equipment. I like a lot of other restrictions too, and we have a plethora of different eq restriction options to let us build different stuff.

6 - ignoring newbies. This I disagree with. True newbies generally do NOT want to talk to anyone until after they get their bearings. Too much comm traffic too early is worse than leaving them in isolation. Someone who already knows what a mud is and who wants to chat will easily find a way to do so, but by default games should be silent and peaceful until the player gets a handle on things. We connect them to one channel at level 2, and a couple more as they gain more levels.

-dentin

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Last edited by dentin : 01-22-2012 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Hit some weird key combination and it autoposted halfway through
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:49 PM   #23
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Re: Why I leave MUDs - Misha's version

Some reasons I leave MUDs

1. I'm faced with a boring grind in order to explore new zones, killing the same things over and over and over...

2. Exploration and experimentation lead to a death that involves loss of xp and boring corpse runs. Popular MMORPGs stopped doing this sort of thing a long time ago. Being bounced back to the graveyard when you die is penalty enough.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:22 AM   #24
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Re: Why I leave MUDs - Misha's version

I agree with dentin's third assessment, having personally experienced this at a MUD that I have spoken about at length on this board (and at numerious times).

One method of dealing with this would be to have this group of characters publicly chastened by a high ranking NPC for their attitudes and behavior...

And having such a high ranking noble taking such action should make the rp there quite interesting for everybody else.


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Old 03-07-2012, 02:34 PM   #25
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I think the OP makes a lot of valid points in the original post before going into troll mode later on in the thread. MUD developers should keep a lot of them in mind, as I think they ring true.

However I disagree with one point specifically:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misha Locke View Post
3. Inner circles and cliques? I left your MUD.
The fact is that MUDs, particularly more roleplay-oriented ones, are social games. People will form social circles in social games. Always. If the absence of this kind of behaviour is a "make it or break it" condition for you then it may explain why you don't enjoy MUDs.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:03 AM   #26
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Re: Why I leave MUDs - Misha's version

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
The fact is that MUDs, particularly more roleplay-oriented ones, are social games. People will form social circles in social games. Always. If the absence of this kind of behaviour is a "make it or break it" condition for you then it may explain why you don't enjoy MUDs.
I fall on the other side of this issue. There's a big difference between: 1) forming an in-game social circle and really enjoying the playing style and company of certain people and the characters they've created, while still being a wholesome, contributing, supportive member of your mud's community at large, ever interested in making the mud a welcoming and fun place for all players; and 2) forming a (mostly) out of character social circle that makes the game unwelcoming or even downright hostile to newcomers or people the circle doesn't like due to a personal belief that the playing style and characters of the circle's members are somehow superior and ideal for the mud, while the mud can do just fine without the people they don't like.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:30 PM   #27
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Re: Why I leave MUDs - Misha's version

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowTroll View Post
2) forming a (mostly) out of character social circle that makes the game unwelcoming or even downright hostile to newcomers or people the circle doesn't like due to a personal belief that the playing style and characters of the circle's members are somehow superior and ideal for the mud, while the mud can do just fine without the people they don't like.

Unfortunately, #2 exsists quite exstensively at that Game I've been often critical of on this board--having exsperienced it first hand while helping a player with ADHD who only wanted to have fun.

And while the OOC social circle's members in that Game are somehow superior and ideal for that Game, their hostility and unwelcoming style alone would slowly stagnate and eventually kill the Game off.

Especially as bad word of mouth circulates about that Game over what's considered 'Good RPing' there.


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Old 03-08-2012, 09:02 PM   #28
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Re: Why I leave MUDs - Misha's version

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowTroll View Post
I fall on the other side of this issue. There's a big difference between: 1) forming an in-game social circle and really enjoying the playing style and company of certain people and the characters they've created, while still being a wholesome, contributing, supportive member of your mud's community at large, ever interested in making the mud a welcoming and fun place for all players; and 2) forming a (mostly) out of character social circle that makes the game unwelcoming or even downright hostile to newcomers or people the circle doesn't like due to a personal belief that the playing style and characters of the circle's members are somehow superior and ideal for the mud, while the mud can do just fine without the people they don't like.
It's an unfortunate problem that will always exist because it's part of human nature.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:34 PM   #29
Darren Brimhall
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Re: Why I leave MUDs - Misha's version

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will View Post
It's an unfortunate problem that will always exist because it's part of human nature.

I refer to it as 'Ego'

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