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Old 03-26-2012, 12:27 AM   #1
meepo64
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Yet another looking for a mud request

I have been playing muds for a few months now and have jumped around to a variety of them.

What I have been looking for is a mud that does not rely on guilds, has plenty of quests, and has a robust crafting system. I am not opposed to guilds that are formed among players as a means of solidarity and offering help and perks. I just don't prefer the muds where they force/encourage membership in an established guild, which, in turn, dictates quite a bit about your character's development. I enjoy exploring the intricacies of the land around, crafting items, food, etc. to help in survival and a means of commerce, in a non-pvp environment.

I also enjoy quests, and a mud where talking to an npc to see if a quest/task is available does not become a frustrating long process of scouring help files, asking players who won't give you a solid answer for fear of spoilers, just to discover that it was an npc not designed to say anything! Simply put...an easy...non-elusive mud where a character can feel at home and experience the adventure that a mud is.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:52 AM   #2
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

This exact post appears about once a month, and I've never had a good answer for it. They usually begin by saying, without saying it: "I tried New Worlds (or a couple of the other muds like it), which is generally a pretty awesome mud, except for the fact that you have to spend a week auditioning for your character class and fit a certain mold to get it (that's what people really mean when they say they want a mud without or less reliant on "guilds"; they're just trying not to name the mud they tried), the fact that its crafting system is supremely limited, and the fact that figuring out some of the in game quests is more of a nightmarish matter of syntax and figuring out what to type than intelligently figuring out what to do." After the fourth or fifth post like that, one wonders whether the New Worlds people might consider making their quests/tasks more user-friendly to figure out, and adding more robust crafting features to the game. The whole auditioning to get into a guild thing is really that game's bread and butter. They're never changing that. But they could improve the other two things.

But I haven't found a good mud that answers a post like this yet. Maiden Desmodus is supposed to have a fairly developed crafting system, but I never got into the game and can't personally speak to any of its pros/cons, and a lot of things are/were in flux over there. I don't know what's going on with the Frogdice people, but if they ever resurrect Primordiax, it has a fairly developed crafting system and a very abundant and obvious quest/task system. Dark and Shattered Lands has a crafting system, but I found it kind of time consuming and tedious, and its quest system is more of the traditional Diku questmaster type system.

A lot of people really like the Iron Realms games, which do have crafting-type skill trees and in-game quests, but there's the obvious "pay-for-perks" model, which most people really don't have a problem with, but those games take it to an extreme, where by max level, you can't even learn all of your character class's skills without buying into the system.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:31 PM   #3
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

Flexible Survival(flexiblesurvival.com 2222) has all of that. Want to talk to someone, easy, talk (name), done! We have a detailed craft system that is NOT buried under piles of odd syntax(You can actually do it all from a web page, point and click).

Warning: Very adult.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:15 PM   #4
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

Thank you for the fast reply! Yeah, I had tried out primordiax once, but stopped early on. I went back a few days ago only to find that I was unable to connect to their server. Now I know why!

I had played graphic mmorpgs for a few years, and really liked the idea of the player-formed guilds. This seems to be something nonexistent in muds....not sure why. I like being an adventurer, not a power-leveling member of an established guild. If later, I decide to join a player-formed guild, via an invite or whatever, that is my choice. It isn't as if my membership in a game-established guild is necessary if I hope to develop my characters skills and such. I also like the idea that I can learn whatever crafts I am interested in. It gives a player a chance to try out different crafts before deciding which ones they tend toward. Just seems like I must be asking too much

Muds are awesome for their reliance on a player's imagination to create the visuals and feelings of the game. I enjoy that challenge. I prefer the fantasy genre, but without the player killing, and I am not looking for an "adult only" slanted game. Just want to adventure, quest, craft and have fun!
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:10 PM   #5
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

Well, there's 3 kingdoms, which I come back to a lot. Before I say anymore, I will warn that it has donations-for-ingame-perks, though many get by without them. They don't really add much in the way of power; they're just nice things like longer friend lists (50 is the default, I think). O, and eq doesn't save over boot.

So why does it fit: they do have crafting. It is complex, and will help with your survival. Essentially, crafting is an alternative to a bootrun, if you are familiar with the concept, and resources do save, even if the eq doesn't. They did a good job with it: cooking is free-form, without any predefined recipes, rangling is killing mobs to suck their essence/soul/whatever, and no one has yet figured out how exactly farming works, though it is possible to succeed at it if you have the patients for the failures. They also have guilds; on 3k, some require recruitment, but they have a sister mud called 3scapes which doesn't and has most of the same ones. WEven then, it's not like you have to apply; it's more of a tell so-and-so "I want to join your guild, can you recruit me?" and you're in. Very, very unique guilds; mages actually summon stuff to follow them around with a chance of it turning on you if you're not careful, bards actually have magical songs with lyrics that take multiple rounds to sing, and a whole bunch of other stuff including shapeshifters. O, and it has players and lots of them, so you don't know everyone right off the bat.

Others that fit what you want, and I hesitate to reccomend these two because they don't have active coders, but dark legacy beats everyone for crafting and project bob beats everyone for classless, so idk. Depends on if you care about changes/stability; the former can reliably be crashed by players (the method to do so is used in loo of a head admin to do reboots, remember what I said about inactive staff). The latter has barely active admin, but is stable enough to get along without them; that said, there was one serious bug where a character could only use tells
and it wasn't resolved when i left after two months...I left because of that, actually. Extremely fun, though, both of those.

Unfortunately, crafting and pve is rare. Batmud has it, and some other neet features, but you can't just jump into it; I know dark and shattered lands does, but again, it's a high level activity. Alter aeon does have most of the requirements you asked for, but only offers alchemy/poisons at last check.

For crafting in an rp environment that isn't awful, there is dartmud; it gets repetative fast, however.

Godwars2 has, among other things, a cool combat system and a small bit of crafting; it is completely pk, however, and has some other issues.

Try 7th plane. It has everything you asked for, including easy mob interaction and fully developed crafting.

Pick any coffeemud out there, and they probably kept the stock classes; the stock coffeemud classes are complete, which is unfortunate imho as it doesn't leave room for originality, but they do have crafting and it is definitely comprehensive. It is only recent that coffeemuds have been picking up, however.

Lensmoor has crafting, and it is very detailed and necessary, but I'm not qualified to talk about it in anything resembling a helpful capacity, mostly because i only played for a few weeks.

I honestly think I just covered almost every mud in existance with crafting worth talking about; does anyone know of any more? Tbh, I'm interested in this question too.

ps: easy quest interaction: Most muds don't have it. Of the above, only alter aeon has easy, simple, non-guess-the-magic-word talk command; you're not going to find that feature, at least not completely. A sign of a good builder, in my opinion, is getting a reaction to anything you try, so long as it is at least within the realm of possibility...I agree, guess-the-word games are annoying.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:53 PM   #6
realmsofvalor
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

Hello meepo64 (and meepo65, meepo66 & meepo67 if divided you stand),

I'd like to take a moment to hit on some of the things you've been looking for in a MUD in regards to the game I work on, Arantha (arantha.net:4000). We are a comparatively new roleplay-required MUD that is always looking for players and helpers.

First, the bad: Our crafting system is not 'robust', in fact it is mostly non-existent. Though gem-crafting elements will be in-game shortly, weapon and other craft systems are largely absent; these have been skimped while many other areas of the game have much time and effort put into them. More than a few of these 'looking for a MUD' posts emphasize strong crafting systems, and I don't want to falsify what we offer. This is certainly something I want to build up in the future, and I would welcome discussion on how to do so and what folks find important and attractive in a crafting system.

Our quest system is something different from the usual autoquests that many games provide. I am interested in putting in some linear elements, but not to the excess that many games do. We rely on quests and roleplay spun by our Staff members, and usually run an event roughly once a week; this is an opportunity to not only loot and profit, risking life and limb, but also to show off your roleplay in front of an audience. Arantha's staff is very encouraging of exceptional roleplay and ready to reward where it is glimpsed.

There are guilds of various sorts, some established and populated by players, others in campaign and as of yet fleshed-out. This is an area where I have come to rely on players (with Staff aid) steering the organizations, with a flexible campaign background to get them started. Ultimately, it ain't about the establishment, it's the players that make things bloom and grow. If you see something you like, or don't, or feel is missing, or wish to bring to life, by all means, let's talk about it! Your ideas are just as much fodder for the world as ours.

Our setting is medieval fantasy with rules emulated from AD&D 2nd edition, we've got a great amount of areas (over 3,500 rooms EACH with unique description), and food, hey, plenty of that.. and there's plenty more we could have! Think we should have more chicken? Write some up, I'd be glad to plug in more chicken! 'Least you got it!

Our playerbase is not large enough to assume real difficulty in 'making your mark', as it were, and we at Arantha are all about the fun of the game. It's one of our rules, in fact, the most important one. The world is, outside of cities, unfortunately dangerous and there is the chance for some player-killing, but we restrict it to roleplay-requirements (would your character murder? what's the justification?). We are 'Adult' in that you must be 18 years of age to create an account, due to the sometimes-adult themes, text violence, and occasional curse words.

If you've great imagination, come by and check out our vibes, and see if Arantha works for you. In any event, have fun and best of luck on your search for a MUD to call home!

Our website: Arantha: The Realms of Valor
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:38 AM   #7
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

Hm, well, Geas does have guilds. The "occupational" guilds would be the sort that you are describing, as they have their own clear goals and values and ways that a character of that guild should act and things they stand for. But, in almost 3 years of playing, I've yet to join an occupational guild on any of my chars because they simply didn't fit my character. I made one character with the ambition of eventually joining one of the guilds, though I may end up joining a different one that is just coming into being through PC and wizard collaboration. It's true that joining an occupational guild gives you something to strive for, a purpose and goals, allies, as well as a set of skills that are limited to that guild. But I wouldn't say it's necessary to enjoying the game.

There are also crafting guilds, though currently the majority of them are steps in bookbinding. But there's also mining, fishing, gemcutting, and you can craft tents and arrows. Another set of guilds are the layman guilds, which include Alchemists, Scribes, and Skalds. These can each get minor magical benefits from potions, scrolls, and magic songs. While the Skalds are the least developed, the alchemy system involves plenty of opportunity to experiment and research unknown potions, and the Scribes' magic system is currently developing into a separate Mage guild. The layman guilds are looser and easier to join than the occupational guilds, and so they might be something to consider to keep you occupied without drawing you into unwanted conflict or having too many restrictions on your character.

Geas does have a ton of quests, which is something I've enjoyed. Some you can easily solve on your own, and some require assistance as they involve fighting tough monsters. It seemed like everywhere I went I uncovered a new quest, and there are still a number of them I've yet to solve. Usually asking an NPC for "help" will reveal whether there's something for you to do.

Anyway, check us out if you're so inclined.

Geas
geas.de port: 3333
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:24 AM   #8
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

Quote:
Originally Posted by meepo64 View Post
I have been playing muds for a few months now and have jumped around to a variety of them.

What I have been looking for is a mud that does not rely on guilds, has plenty of quests, and has a robust crafting system. I am not opposed to guilds that are formed among players as a means of solidarity and offering help and perks. I just don't prefer the muds where they force/encourage membership in an established guild, which, in turn, dictates quite a bit about your character's development. I enjoy exploring the intricacies of the land around, crafting items, food, etc. to help in survival and a means of commerce, in a non-pvp environment.

I also enjoy quests, and a mud where talking to an npc to see if a quest/task is available does not become a frustrating long process of scouring help files, asking players who won't give you a solid answer for fear of spoilers, just to discover that it was an npc not designed to say anything! Simply put...an easy...non-elusive mud where a character can feel at home and experience the adventure that a mud is.
Do you object to guilds if they don't dictate character direction?
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:57 PM   #9
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

I feel you. The guild thing really gets annoying fast. Especially when you have to jump through a bunch of virtual hoops, talk to like 9 PCs (that may be on a totally different play schedule as you) just to get access to skills and/or status. It gets very annoying when the lack of guild skills and and status exclude you from some parts of the game.

I only like it when guilds or clans are more of a social group than a gatekeeper of required skills. In my opinion, only a few games do it for me.

In Armaggedon, your clan/guild doesn't give you any skills. However, they may make learning them easier. Also, they may provide a safe place to sleep (logout), access to clean water and food. As well as the RP benefits as contacts, events, etc. Plus, to get in, its all RP and some time a task: hunt this, steal this, con that guy, etc.


In Lusternia (and I thinking all of the other IRE games, since their guild structure seems the same), you get access to a few guild skills and they give you a check list of chores to do as a novice. I actually hate that check list, but if you are complete newbie, it helps you learn the game's story, survival, etc. I do hate the essays, though. But, there are tons of quests and the other players are not that strict with the well known or main city quest details. Also, there is crafting. You only get one, though. I'm only familiar with Lusternia's system, so I'm not sure about the rest. Lastly, I spent money in Lusternia. However, you can do other things for credits and buy them in game, too. It just really depends on your play style, wallet or both.

DartMud Is a cool game. You can learn almost every skill on your own, but its faster to get a teacher. There are other "shady" skills that MUST be learned from a teacher, though. Don't ask publicly about them either. There are quests to find, however you have to ask around in game for info on some of them. Also, as someone replied earlier, crafting is really repetitive. What I do is hang out with other crafters, work out my crafts while RPing. I think that's kinda cheesy though. Also, in my opinion, no one really sells anything other than quest rewards, so there's no real economy. Plus most players can make everything, so there is no supply and demand. Also, Everyone just cooks steaks to sell to the store to pay for rent on their inn rooms or castles.

All that aside, the details of crafting is amazing. There are so many materials to apply to the various crafts. You can make yourself a red silk cloak with black velvet stitching and cheetah fur lined hood, for example. I read in an old ad for the game that the cooking skill alone has about 300+ recipes (One reason why I hate that everyone always makes steaks and roasts!)
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:57 PM   #10
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

Thanks to the many replies/help in my mud search! I will try some of the ones that have been recommended. Will have to let you know if i find one that fits! Thanks again
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:32 AM   #11
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

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Originally Posted by meepo64 View Post
Thanks to the many replies/help in my mud search! I will try some of the ones that have been recommended. Will have to let you know if i find one that fits! Thanks again
For when you don't find that game that has incredible depth and feel I'll give you the reason for serious roleplaying of hard line Guilds and Quests that aren't giveaways by your fellow adventurers.

1. Guilds.
While I can appreciate independance and wanting to just be in a guild for a social group, I really do not see the point (in a roleplay enforced environment) to have guilds at all that have no rules or you can just join without any roleplay or requirements. Yes, the game should be fun and not tedius, however, if a game is so simplistic you can do anything with little effort the fun becomes short lived. As the old axiom says, "no pain no gain."

2. Quests.
Sort of the same issue here as above. If you can just learn the quest secrets from your fellow player, why have quests at all? "Hey bobby, just take this knife, cut the rope there, and then fish out those rubies! Yeah, like that, good job bobby!" That sort of thing happens on 90% of games and destroys the enjoyment of discovery (in my oppinion).

The reason the above two issues are the way they are on New Worlds Ateraan is because our playerbase enjoy mature, strong roleplaying and the style of the game breeds both.

Every player has an idea of how fun is acheaved and I don't hold the grand answer to that, I just wanted to give an alternative reason for some of your initial questions.

Enjoy the hunt!
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:43 PM   #12
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

Well, have been looking around at a bunch of different muds. Have found one called "conquest" which, so far, is great! It has the simple questing with npcs and crafting. The big drawback is very few people are online at a given time I still want to keep playing and see what happens!
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Old 04-07-2012, 03:09 PM   #13
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Re: Yet another looking for a mud request

I would suggest checking out Lensmoor. There is a clan system, and it is COMPLETELY player driven. There are no set classes - if you have the skillcap you can learn everything except racial skills/spells.

Crafting system? In Lensmoor you mine ores and gems (gems are used for enchanting), metalwork the ores into metals, metalwork different metals together to make alloys (coal + iron = steel... copper and iron = bronze I believe, etc.) and create wearable/enchantable/detailable objects like weapons, armor, and jewelry. You can also collect herbs to create potions, salves, and pills. You can ALSO create casters, staves, and wands as well.

The quest system is pretty robust... you can do solo hack&slash quests (capture a mob, kill a mob, find an item, or find a mob and ask it a question pertaining to the game) or you can do solo crafting quests (gather this material, or craft this item and deliver it to that mob), OR you can do group quests which are hack&slash (kill a horde of x mob in y area, or kill x mob in y area that's a leader).

You can own shops, you can own houses, you can have pets, you can even CREATE pets once you learn beast fusion.

The ONLY drawback to Lensmoor right now is that the playerbase has dwindled down due to people getting sucked into real life. At one point there was an average of 60 people on at any given time with a peak of 150-175 people on at once...but over the years it's shrunk to an average of 10-15 people on at once and a peak of 25-40 people on.

There is no character approval process, RP isn't strictly enforced UNLESS you're PK (you have to have a valid reason to kill someone), and everything is pretty much in the hands of the players. It's been up since '97, and I've been playing since '99.
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