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Old 09-21-2009, 09:17 PM   #21
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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Originally Posted by Threshold View Post
But that's not an RP attention hog as defined for this thread. The very fact that you said "in a positive direction" right away eliminates that type of person from being the type this thread is about.

An RP attention hog is someone who requires that all RP be all about their character all the time. If a situation evolves that puts someone else at the center of attention, even if it is enjoyed by hundreds of people who are very engaged in the RP, this type of person will do everything they can do ruin or destroy that RP plotline so they can steer things back to something about them.

I have seen a few posts here where people are basically redefining RP Attention Hog as someone who RPs in a way that generally attracts a lot of attention. That's not the same thing at all. Good RPers attract attention. That's not a bad thing, and that isn't what I was getting at with this thread.

An RP Attention Hog is the negative extreme where someone's desire to ALWAYS be the center of attention has become a problem, and thus the Admins need to do something about it.
Agreed though I would add that an RP attention hog would not necessarily do everything they can to ruin or destroy an RP plotline if they can simply shift the center of attention to themselves. In other words, if the RP plotline can continue with them as the focal point instead of someone else, they won't necessarily destroy it so much as hijack it. If they can't shift the attention to themselves, then yes, they'll often times end up ruining or destroying it in their attempt.

Dealing with it is something that requires a case-by-case basis depending on the personality of the player. Sometimes talking to them can put a stop to it before it becomes too bad and sometimes you simply have to resort to harsher punishments.
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:55 PM   #22
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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An RP Attention Hog is the negative extreme where someone's desire to ALWAYS be the center of attention has become a problem, and thus the Admins need to do something about it.
The is a real problem and never something enjoyable to deal with as it many times ends in cryings of foul and drama in ooc.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:12 AM   #23
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

Take a leaf from WoW's book and introduce an ignore function for players :-)

Once ignored, the person for that session, has all emotes to 'xxxx does something but you hardly notice' and everything they say to 'xxxx is talking but its so remarkably inane you dont register the words'

Ignore lists are cleared at every logoff
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:59 AM   #24
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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Take a leaf from WoW's book and introduce an ignore function for players :-)

Once ignored, the person for that session, has all emotes to 'xxxx does something but you hardly notice' and everything they say to 'xxxx is talking but its so remarkably inane you dont register the words'

Ignore lists are cleared at every logoff
The mud I play has an ignore list, to prevent harassment throughout the pbase, but it's uses are far greater for out of character interactions than in-character ones.

This sounds an awful lot like "ways to punish people who buy into your RP system." Pure and simple, the best way to "deal with" RP attention hogs, aside from simply pulling them aside OOCly and speaking to them about the problem... is probably to HANDLE IT IN THE ROLEPLAY!!

If someone is a horn-blowing douche, rip them a new one! Or get someone else to! Or get a BUNCH of people to! Or organize some kind of movement against said person, even if it's non-violent... but do it IN CHARACTER! And force that person to adjust their play. This will probably result in a lower-key RP.

If someone won't willingly leave the spotlight, you force them out of it. But punishing them for buying into the RP system? Seems silly. DAEDAL MACABRE 9000
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Old 09-26-2009, 09:17 PM   #25
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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How do you, as player and/or administrator, deal with RP attention hogs?

Do you just let them be?

Do you try to talk to them privately about why it might be better to share the spotlight?

Do you even consider this a problem?

I generally think RP attention hogs are a bad thing - more so if they are actually good role players. A good RP environment needs people who are willing to share the spotlight. People need to be willing to participate in a supporting role as well. People who expect to always be the main character alienate people fast, and then the game ends up losing out on their RP contributions.
Yeah I definitely hate the regular approach most roleplayers take with the whole "I am the great blah blah blah" ... it should be more about adventures and cooperation!
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:58 AM   #26
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Question Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

I find this problem pretty alien.

If people are roleplaying, it's assumed they're in-character, right? So why aren't they dealing with these attention hogs in an in-character manner? Confrontation and (IC) drama is core to roleplaying and indeed any sort of fiction, why avoid it?

I understand that admin may want to avoid OOC drama, but if players are unable to separate IC drama and conflict from their OOC selves then they need to be coached on it - the inability to separate IC and OOC events, actions and feelings is a bigger detriment to truly excellent roleplay than any loudmouth can ever hope to be.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:01 PM   #27
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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If people are roleplaying, it's assumed they're in-character, right? So why aren't they dealing with these attention hogs in an in-character manner? Confrontation and (IC) drama is core to roleplaying and indeed any sort of fiction, why avoid it?
Because there are not always IC ways to deal with the ways in which an RP hog manifests itself.

How do you deal with it IC when someone happens to be a super fast typist so they overwhelm RP events?

How do you deal with it IC when someone plays a game 20 hours a day and they show up at every thing event and try to take it over?

And those are just two examples.

When someone becomes a true RP attention hog, there are often not appropriate ways to handle it IC.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:29 PM   #28
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

Old thread, but interesting topic. Honestly, you're both right. An OOC approach doesn't have to completely replace or eliminate an IC approach. In a well-designed and well-run game, OOC and IC features complement each other, rather than working at odds with each other.

When it comes to recommending and enforcing player-to-player courtsey and etiquette, nobody should have to try to twist what is essentially an impolite player OOC into an IC concept due to some elitist "I'm so 1337, I RP everything, even the OOC stuff" mentality. Mud owners should make and enforce OOC mud policies through OOC means. Peer pressure works. If 50 other players are all abiding by polite mud etiquette, the one impolite one is going to stick out like a sore thumb and draw some scorn. And if the 50 other players are all having fun and make their courteous way of doing things look enjoyable, as well as appreciated, that might change a few minds.

But at the same time, if some attention monger sticks his nose into everything and won't shut up and keeps dominating every scene and thrusting himself/herself all over, surely people are going to get sick of him IC. "Weren't you just at the anti-mage rally last week making a spectacle of yourself? Why are you at the pro-mage rally this week kissing the other half's asses and making yet another scene? Which side are you on? You had no busisness attending at least one of those two rallies, and I have a sneaking suspicion you had no business attending either of them since you're a Troll Barbarian who's never had an opinion on magic until someone scheduled a rally you could crash, and now suddenly you're spouting magical theory out of nowhere? And I'm getting awfully sick of having a casual chat with my friends in the bar and having you insert your opinion about everything. I think I'm going to stab you now."
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:57 PM   #29
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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Because there are not always IC ways to deal with the ways in which an RP hog manifests itself.

How do you deal with it IC when someone happens to be a super fast typist so they overwhelm RP events?

How do you deal with it IC when someone plays a game 20 hours a day and they show up at every thing event and try to take it over?

And those are just two examples.

When someone becomes a true RP attention hog, there are often not appropriate ways to handle it IC.

I can't say I really understand your examples. Can you give me some concrete ones? Because I don't really understand how one can 'overwhelm' or 'take over' RP events without other players being able to take IC action to prevent it.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:09 PM   #30
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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When it comes to recommending and enforcing player-to-player courtsey and etiquette, nobody should have to try to twist what is essentially an impolite player OOC into an IC concept due to some elitist "I'm so 1337, I RP everything, even the OOC stuff" mentality. Mud owners should make and enforce OOC mud policies through OOC means. Peer pressure works. If 50 other players are all abiding by polite mud etiquette, the one impolite one is going to stick out like a sore thumb and draw some scorn. And if the 50 other players are all having fun and make their courteous way of doing things look enjoyable, as well as appreciated, that might change a few minds.

Player-to-player courtesy and etiquette, IMO, should apply OOCly. But the crux of any fiction - RP included - is conflict and if all the characters are bffs4eva you're missing out on a lot of fun. Which is why I appreciate your second paragraph, I think it approaches what I was getting at originally.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:43 PM   #31
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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But the crux of any fiction - RP included - is conflict and if all the characters are bffs4eva you're missing out on a lot of fun.
That may be the crux of fiction, but we are running virtual worlds here. Fun is not always about conflict or creating interactive fiction. Sometimes the fun comes from immersing yourself in a fantastical world. That is something that quite often does not, and should not, involve conflict.


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I can't say I really understand your examples. Can you give me some concrete ones? Because I don't really understand how one can 'overwhelm' or 'take over' RP events without other players being able to take IC action to prevent it.
Hmmm. I already did?

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How do you deal with it IC when someone happens to be a super fast typist so they overwhelm RP events?

How do you deal with it IC when someone plays a game 20 hours a day and they show up at every thing event and try to take it over?

And those are just two examples.
If someone types 140 words a minute and uses that to scroll the screen such that his RP dominates everyone else, there's often no legit/realistic IC action to counter it.

In fact, to try and get them to stop typing so much might actually be super OOC. Especially if a lot of the things the person is typing are mood setting emotes or personal actions (not just speech) so you can't even say IC "hey, can you quiet down?"

In the past we had had things like someone showing up at an IC wedding as a guest, and they type 10 times more stuff than the primary participants. Things like emoting about fidgeting in their seat and all sorts of random stuff just to get attention. There's no great IC counter.

Ask them to leave? Why?

Ask them to be quiet? They aren't talking.

RP Attention Hogs are very often a pure OOC problem.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:49 PM   #32
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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If someone types 140 words a minute and uses that to scroll the screen such that his RP dominates everyone else, there's often no legit/realistic IC action to counter it.

Walk away. If someone tried to monopolize your time at a bar, especially if they were annoying you, you would probably either leave or confront them. In the appropriate RP setting you could probably kill the offending character for running their mouth, if not you could always go somewhere else.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #33
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

Player's point of view here.

In my primary game, we occasionally get varying levels of RP hogs.
The staff don't need to intervene much, since we've never had the '60mph scroll' hogs.

Very very rarely, however, a newbie will suddenly appear, run into the room, and demand instant attention to his vital RP story.

Once was an outcast who ran into a bar and insisted that everyone jump up and search for the pack that was trying to kill him.
Meanwhile, everyone told him that the city is guarded well, and the people in room could protect him from just about anything. Well, he finished panicking when nobody got involved, and left. Sadly, that character was never seen again.

That kind of case doesn't really require any IMM intervention.

In another case, massive IMM intervention was needed to stop a high ranking noble that kept killing people (It's illegal), degrading other players, and trying to set off a war that nobody wanted.

When i asked his player about it, he replied 'I don't play (Game name), I play (His Character name).'

That encapsulates the thinking of the extreme RP hogs, I think. They're not trying to be a part of a community, they just want their action, and all the attention.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:41 AM   #34
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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In the past we had had things like someone showing up at an IC wedding as a guest, and they type 10 times more stuff than the primary participants. Things like emoting about fidgeting in their seat and all sorts of random stuff just to get attention. There's no great IC counter.

Sure there is - since they're just 'fidgeting' and you can't tell them to quiet down, no one notices and everything continues on. If they fidget non-stop, put yourself in the situation. You notice someone constantly fidgeting IRL, what comes to mind? That something is obviously wrong with them? Are they tweaking on something? Do you want junkies at your wedding?

That said, why was this guy invited to the wedding in the first place? Was he a friend of the groom or the bride? No? Then they have every IC reason to ask an uninvited guest to leave.

You can't really emote doing nothing, so they're doing something. If they're doing something constantly it's going to ICly get on someone's nerves.
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:38 PM   #35
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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Sure there is - since they're just 'fidgeting' and you can't tell them to quiet down, no one notices and everything continues on. If they fidget non-stop, put yourself in the situation. You notice someone constantly fidgeting IRL, what comes to mind? That something is obviously wrong with them? Are they tweaking on something? Do you want junkies at your wedding?

That said, why was this guy invited to the wedding in the first place? Was he a friend of the groom or the bride? No? Then they have every IC reason to ask an uninvited guest to leave.

You can't really emote doing nothing, so they're doing something. If they're doing something constantly it's going to ICly get on someone's nerves.
On Ateraan we have special ways to deal with attention hogs. It's actually some pretty nifty code for special events, major roleplay episodes, and even some guild powers to control all forms of attention grabbers. I won't go into details of the code, but even though it is effective, I still think having mature players and strong rules is the best defense.

I tend to steer clear of the "What would you do IRL" answers. Because most people aren't riding dragons, turning invisible, and cutting off the heads of orcs IRL.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:16 PM   #36
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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Walk away. If someone tried to monopolize your time at a bar, especially if they were annoying you, you would probably either leave or confront them. In the appropriate RP setting you could probably kill the offending character for running their mouth, if not you could always go somewhere else.
Walk away? So when there is a big event planned to have a wedding in a specific location, every other person has to walk away?

Isn't that sorta ridiculous?

And like I said, its not always someone "running their mouth", nor would any IC action be appropriate to someone emoting every little thing they are doing - especially if they are perfectly natural things that are reasonably happening but a more reasonable person wouldn't try to dominate every situation and make himself/herself the center of attention at all times.

I'm not sure why there is so much trouble understanding the very real, obvious, and clear possibility that RP attention hogs exist and there are a ton of ways for which there is no proper or appropriate IC reaction or solution.

And in those situations, dealing with it OOC is the only way.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:51 PM   #37
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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Walk away? So when there is a big event planned to have a wedding in a specific location, every other person has to walk away?

Isn't that sorta ridiculous?

And like I said, its not always someone "running their mouth", nor would any IC action be appropriate to someone emoting every little thing they are doing - especially if they are perfectly natural things that are reasonably happening but a more reasonable person wouldn't try to dominate every situation and make himself/herself the center of attention at all times.

I'm not sure why there is so much trouble understanding the very real, obvious, and clear possibility that RP attention hogs exist and there are a ton of ways for which there is no proper or appropriate IC reaction or solution.

And in those situations, dealing with it OOC is the only way.
I know RP hogs exists. I don't question that at all. I think I have a different definition of RP hog that you do. So, perhaps I've oversimplified my response. Or I haven't had to deal with it at the same level you have had to deal with it.

My approach would be to deal with it IC if the character's behavior was IC. If the character's behavior was an OOC detriment to the game (ie typing so fast and so much that they spammed the other players to the point they couldn't play) I'd come at it OOC, but then I'm dealing with what I would consider a different problem.

How would you classify the budding novelist who needs to spend five minute writing every pose and expects everyone else to sit around idle waiting for them? I've encountered this far more often than I have someone trying to hog all of the RP, and I've never found a successful IC way to deal with it.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:42 PM   #38
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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I know RP hogs exists. I don't question that at all. I think I have a different definition of RP hog that you do. So, perhaps I've oversimplified my response. Or I haven't had to deal with it at the same level you have had to deal with it.

My approach would be to deal with it IC if the character's behavior was IC. If the character's behavior was an OOC detriment to the game (ie typing so fast and so much that they spammed the other players to the point they couldn't play) I'd come at it OOC, but then I'm dealing with what I would consider a different problem.
I appreciate your point and I think that's definitely the way to go in an IDEAL SITUATION. But then again, when it is ideal, you probably aren't dealing with an RP attention hog.

RP attention hogs are those people who try (or succeed) at finding ways to make every single RP situation center around them or re-direct towards them. They are usually very good at doing this in ways that you can't reasonably or logically shut them down IC. They are also often good RPers which is why there is often no legit way to shut them down IC.

But it sucks hugely for everyone else because nobody wants the same person to always be the center of attention - no matter how good of an RPer they are.

There are times where the only way to solve it is to talk to the person OOC, and that can be a challenge. You don't want to discourage their good RP, but you want to make sure they understand that they cannot always be the center of attention. So you have to educate without alienating. That's why I started this thread (5 years ago!) - so people could discussion the situations where there was no easy IC solution.

The situations where you can deal with it IC are the trivial situations where a discussion like this isn't needed.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:40 AM   #39
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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Sure there is - since they're just 'fidgeting' and you can't tell them to quiet down, no one notices and everything continues on. If they fidget non-stop, put yourself in the situation. You notice someone constantly fidgeting IRL, what comes to mind? That something is obviously wrong with them? Are they tweaking on something? Do you want junkies at your wedding?

That said, why was this guy invited to the wedding in the first place? Was he a friend of the groom or the bride? No? Then they have every IC reason to ask an uninvited guest to leave.

You can't really emote doing nothing, so they're doing something. If they're doing something constantly it's going to ICly get on someone's nerves.
And with the resolution you come up with, you play -right- into the dramahog's game: taking the focus away from the scene that was trying to be presented by the majority, and placing the focus on the dramahog.

Wedding interrupted - check.
Dramahog gets to play the star of the show/victim/perpetrator - check
Bride and Groom's joyous moment forgotten and ignored while everyone deals with noticing the bouncer going to the dramahog to escort him out (and if he's truly a dramahog, he'll put up a fuss, or make excuses, or demand justice, etc. etc.) - check.

This is what the dramahog lives for: the exact type of situation AND resolution you refer to.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:01 AM   #40
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Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs

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And with the resolution you come up with, you play -right- into the dramahog's game: taking the focus away from the scene that was trying to be presented by the majority, and placing the focus on the dramahog.

Wedding interrupted - check.
Dramahog gets to play the star of the show/victim/perpetrator - check
Bride and Groom's joyous moment forgotten and ignored while everyone deals with noticing the bouncer going to the dramahog to escort him out (and if he's truly a dramahog, he'll put up a fuss, or make excuses, or demand justice, etc. etc.) - check.

This is what the dramahog lives for: the exact type of situation AND resolution you refer to.
I don't believe it's an attention-monger's goal to actually ruin the rp scene they're mongering. That's just a common side effect. Most of them seriously believe they're adding to an rp event by throwing their skilled emotes into the spotlight every 30 seconds and portraying their awesome character in an entertaining fashion. In their mind, what's the point of attending anything if you're just going to sit silently and watch others rp? You're there to be a part of the scene, not watch other people act out a scene. In their mind, if you're not going to emote, participate, and get some attention (even if your character doesn't have much legitimate business doing so), you might as well just read the log later and not waste time being there. Not that an attention-monger would ever skip an event. Those chances to impress groups of people at a special time when a lot of people are in one place can be few and far between.

Most of the time, if you run off an attention-monger, whether using using IC or OOC means, he/she isn't going to thrive on being the victim. More likely, your attention seeker is going to go ape on ooc channels if the mud has them, claiming that people here are stifling rp rather than encouraging it, the other people around here can't rp their way out of a paper bag, boldly proclaim that the mud sucks, then log off. Attention mongers actually believe they're speical. They're not out to ruin the game for others. On the contrary, what they desperately hope to do is impress others and get credit for making the game better and entertaining.
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