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Old 01-09-2013, 03:56 PM   #1
Lukaeon
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Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

I've done a lot of searching to find my home mud. I've made sad little pleas here and on TMC. I've run dozens of searches and posted queries on mailing lists of which I'm a member. And what I've finally found is a mud with a small player base --which deserves a larger one-- is Haven, a massively modified LP mud.

First of all, it has variety. There are around 20 character races to choose from, including a few only found on Haven. There are nosferatu (semi-vampiric creatures with a taste for blood), skaven (quick, strong rat peoplewho make good fighters) and muezzin (short fuzzy wuzzies who remind me of Ewoks, and who have a taste for magic). ( Besides these Haven-only races there are many player races you'll be familiar with, though some have been subtly changed. Goblins, for example, who are usually evil on other muds are peaceful ancestor worshippers on Haven, while elves, who remain graceful and keen with a flair for magic also happen to be fanatically obsessed with maintaining order, although they still make good mages and druids.

Now here's the thing. Many of the games most interesting races and classes remain out of reach until one of your characters (and you can have many) reaches 50th level.
Then character classes such as the horror (a chaotic nightmare being playable by those running a demon character) or a contemplator (a peaceful Buddha-like character who prefers meditation to massacre) You can have as many characters as you like, so why not try them all?

Magic on Haven is alive and well, and doesn't look much like magic on other muds. Magic comes in different spheres, from conjuring to enchantment, and some spells require proficiency in two or three spheres to cast. This sounds unusually difficult to play, I suppose, but it works out to be easy enough. Enchanters, for example, have both enchantment and conjuring as primary skills, with evokation running as a good secondary. And another thing about Haven spells is that they're not copied from the D and D Player's Handbook. There are attack, defense and buff spells, of course, but you can rest easy in the fac that you will never see "Ventriloquate" when you survey the spells you've just been taught by your trainer.

This probably tips you off to the fact that Haven is a largely skill-based mud, although leveling is still necessary, you spend experience by raising your primary, secondary and other skills and so eventually attain mastery of your skills. It's one of the great pleasures of the game, deciding how best to spend XP when you've spent the last hour or so hunting.

Finally (for this review anyway; there are still lots of good things to say about Haven) players get experience for many things besides killing a mob in combat, although that occurs too. You can get XP for fishing, farming, mining, striking especially good blows against your enemy, and completing quests (of which there are many).

In other words, you can't say enough good things about Haven. But don't take it from me, even though I've been playing these things since the mid 90's. Fire up your favorite mud client and hop on over to Haven at:

Hostname: haven.havenmud.com
Port: 4000

You can always look me up on the OOC channel. My username is Lukaeon, and I'm always glad to lend a hand to inquisitive (or just plain stuck) newbies. Welcome!
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:00 PM   #2
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

I need to play haven again. I did for a bit,but then just...stopped. I'm not even really sure why.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:15 PM   #3
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

Interesting but a lot of long help files to read at start!
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:01 PM   #4
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Originally Posted by Tristan1992 View Post
Interesting but a lot of long help files to read at start!
The help files, while not required, are indeed extensive.

Because I personally enjoy this Mud and some folks might be deterred by this comment, I'll say that while there is a lot of information in the help files, its all useful.

This is one of the few places one can come to, read the files and play without having to ask tons of questions on channels to figure things out.

The help files are available at their website as well as their wiki, so one can multi-tab or window to both play the game while being able to search for information they are looking for.

I for one dislike going to chans/newbie lines/etc. to prod for help with quests/exploration of the game - I like to discover it myself as best as I can.

For instance, I found myself recently trying an old mud where I simply couldn't find information on something in the help files. Their quest system wasn't explained in help files nor were all their commands available in the help files. I had explored the newbie area, found an item after searching that seemed related to the quest but its description in conjunction with the in game list of quests, available at a trainer, gave no real indication on how to proceed. It was after I probed on the newbie line that a staffer hand held me through the quest, pointing out commands that I was unaware of at that point.

As much as mutli-play can be fun, solo exploration is also enjoyable for the sense of accomplishment in figuring these things, and this is just such a place that gives one enough tools to figure things out by ones self. Haven is expansive enough to also be appealing to those who like to explore.

Not to mention the large selection of magic and armours. Magic is available in several forms (including songs for those who like bard-types), each with a large list of individual spells to learn and I really can't say more to expound on this than did the original poster. Magic doesn't look like other muds and, indeed, there are a great many spells one can have access too without changing classes and trying other races.

Armour is rather in-depth as well, with multiple limbs/areas to place armour and stacking of cloth armours/items with regard amour (ie, shirts/pants/cloaks as well as things like plate/chain/leather/etc. armour). With the amount of armour types (full armour, body armour, etc.) one can truly create interesting stacks.

Edit: For those who don't want to read the 'help newbie' file or look through the newbie book in the starting room of the game, while the 'who' doesn't work at level one, one can still use the ooc line to talk with other players 'ooc whatever'

For those who enjoy fighting, here is a present armour stack I have on one of my characters:

head:
(T1 cloth) elegant eyepatch (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) pendant (10% damaged)
(T6 plate) helm (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) sanjaku-tenugui (0% damaged)
right leg:
(T6 plate) steel cuisse (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) jika-tabi (10% damaged)
(T1 cloth) shinobi shozoku (0% damaged)
right foot:
(T6 plate) boots (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) jika-tabi (10% damaged)
left foot:
(T6 plate) boots (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) jika-tabi (10% damaged)
left arm:
(T6 plate) wall shield (0% damaged)
(T6 plate) steel breastplate (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) sleeve (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) shinobi shozoku (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) shirt (40% damaged)
torso:
(T6 plate) breastplate (10% damaged)
(T6 plate) steel breastplate (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) shinobi shozoku (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) shirt (40% damaged)
left leg:
(T6 plate) steel cuisse (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) jika-tabi (10% damaged)
(T1 cloth) shinobi shozoku (0% damaged)
right hand:
(T5 chain) silver ring (10% damaged)
(T5 chain) silver ring (20% damaged)
(Non-Armour) belaying pin (10% damaged)
(T6 plate) gauntlet (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) sleeve (10% damaged)
(T5 chain) silver ring (20% damaged)
right arm:
(T6 plate) steel breastplate (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) sleeve (10% damaged)
(T1 cloth) shinobi shozoku (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) shirt (40% damaged)
left hand:
(T6 plate) gauntlet (0% damaged)
(T6 plate) wall shield (0% damaged)
(T1 cloth) sleeve (0% damaged)


Yes, it can be repaired in game by learning the skills to do so. And one can see certain items are designed to cover multiple areas, such as steel breastplate which covers arms and torso, or the tabi armour which covers foot/leg much like real tabi.

Last edited by Lotherio : 04-01-2013 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:49 PM   #5
jenred.armageddon
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

how are you wearing 2 breastplates?
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:43 PM   #6
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Originally Posted by jenred.armageddon View Post
how are you wearing 2 breastplates?
What a funny ....

However, in case Mr/Mrs. Armageddon didn't mean that as hyperbolic sarcasm ...

The first one that only covers the torso is more like the basic partial plate vest (http://www.anshelmarms.com/images/ar...late_15thc.jpg) and the steel breastplate that covers arms as well is more like the Gothic layer style plating one might think of on a knight (http://zombiemechanics.com/wp-conten...Full-plate.jpg).

Then again, if the OP was being funny, how is the character wearing the plate helm also wearing a sanjaku (ninja cloth head wrap) under it and an eyepatch (pirate style).
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:10 PM   #7
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Originally Posted by Lotherio View Post

The first one that only covers the torso is more like the basic partial plate vest (http://www.anshelmarms.com/images/ar...late_15thc.jpg) and the steel breastplate that covers arms as well is more like the Gothic layer style plating one might think of on a knight (http://zombiemechanics.com/wp-conten...Full-plate.jpg).
I think he was being serious.

I don't see how someone could wear those 2 items.

A helmet and a cloth wrap is one thing. But two metal breastplates?
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:45 PM   #8
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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I think he was being serious.

I don't see how someone could wear those 2 items.

A helmet and a cloth wrap is one thing. But two metal breastplates?
We're talking games with 20+ races, many playable combat classes such as acrobats and bards, hundreds of various spells from shocking bolts to hypnotizing color sprays to animating dead animals to serve as guardians, where people oft times jump into random portals to see where they lead, many including and leading to areas that are often funny 'real' references to places such as the 'Mad Tea Party' or other 'children's' literature where following the right 'story' line often translates to some 'magical' quest points (in one form or another) that equates to in game bonuses that boost make believe characters and the thread is gonna be hijacked over the verisimilitude of two overlapping layers of plate armor on a torso.

Personally, and I only speak for myself, those two breastplates haven't 'jumped the shark' for my imagination. I see Haven as making a valiant attempt at a complex armor system even if there are some inconsistencies.

In my mind, image one shows a plate vest, a real breastplate, image two shows all the little 'added' overlapping pieces that come with a gothic breastplate to make a complete suit of plate armour that includes layers of plate over shoulder and hips that typically do overly a breastplate to some extent (and as such, would cover a 'torso' while shoulders and hips are not distinct body parts themselves on Haven). The added pieces that overlay a breastplate are components in an affect achieved by adding the 'steel breastplate'.

A second thought would be that 'cheating' the idea of two overlapping breastplates would also allow strictly fighter classes without access to any magic boost/shields to be competitive with impressive magic using classes that can protect/boost themselves to a competitive edge and beyond in the realm of fighting - then again having played strictly fighters, its very easy for the mob to hit another body part that isn't protected by double plate such as the torso or the areas behind the wall shield and take serious damage. In fairness, I haven't found some other way to 'cheat' the system by overlapping plate/chain greaves over/under the cuisse or the steal breastplate that covers the arms, and they have plenty of those to go around. For all I know, I have cheated and not reported it as a bug and the staff could read this and change the way the 2nd breastplate works.

For the record, I am not a staff member of Haven. My only interest is as a player and having played Mud's for a couple of decades as well as the original LAN games that Muds stemmed from, I still find Haven the most enjoyable for myself to play - and can only recommend it, but its to each their own to decide what they like, in the end its all about having /fun/.

That said, I do find it in bad form to attempt to 'critique' other advertisements for muds following submission of one's own advertisement. The first poster to ponder two breastplates only had two posts, one for the Mud they enjoy (and unlike them, I would recommend their's as well, I have played there before), and the second one to point out the inconsistency at my inept showing of the armour system for Haven.





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Old 04-03-2013, 11:03 AM   #9
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Originally Posted by jenred.armageddon View Post
how are you wearing 2 breastplates?
Does it matter? This is fantasy. Chicks are wearing bikini chainmail and dudes are turning into dragons!

Did I just say chicks? I think I need to create a Fonz INPC.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #10
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Originally Posted by Lotherio View Post
That said, I do find it in bad form to attempt to 'critique' other advertisements for muds following submission of one's own advertisement. The first poster to ponder two breastplates only had two posts, one for the Mud they enjoy (and unlike them, I would recommend their's as well, I have played there before), and the second one to point out the inconsistency at my inept showing of the armour system for Haven.
Lighten up, Francis!

I don't think anyone was critiquing your advertisement. The person who originally asked the question about the armor did so in response to one of your later posts - not the original announcement.

Furthermore, you should be kinda psyched that he read your post in enough detail to even notice. The armor system does look extremely detailed. That's all the more reason for someone to inquire about something that looked unusual.

Lastly, considering most mud advertisements get ignored and rarely generate any discussion, you should actually be happy there was something worth discussing.

I think you're unnecessarily taking offense. Nobody was attacking you or your mud. It was just something a little strange that piqued someone's interest (and then once he asked you about it, that made me curious as well - when at first I hadn't really noticed).
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:45 PM   #11
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Originally Posted by Lotherio View Post
The help files, while not required, are indeed extensive.

Because I personally enjoy this Mud and some folks might be deterred by this comment, I'll say that while there is a lot of information in the help files, its all useful.

This is one of the few places one can come to, read the files and play without having to ask tons of questions on channels to figure things out.

The help files are available at their website as well as their wiki, so one can multi-tab or window to both play the game while being able to search for information they are looking for.

I for one dislike going to chans/newbie lines/etc. to prod for help with quests/exploration of the game - I like to discover it myself as best as I can.
Hmm I like the sound of that. I too dislike it when important information is only available in the memories of the older players. Who knows what they've forgotten.

I should visit Haven again, my comment seems to indicate I was intrigued and I'm now taking a break from my main MUD (which has a Haven domain as an aside).
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:18 PM   #12
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Originally Posted by Threshold View Post
Lighten up, Francis!

I don't think anyone was critiquing your advertisement.
Not my advertisement, just following up to give some response for those reading and there are a lot that have browsed the thread.

Quote:
Furthermore, you should be kinda psyched that he read your post in enough detail to even notice .... Lastly, considering most mud advertisements get ignored and rarely generate any discussion, you should actually be happy there was something worth discussing.
Yes all 'publicity' is good publicity, gotcha.

Quote:
I think you're unnecessarily taking offense. Nobody was attacking you or your mud. It was just something a little strange that piqued someone's interest (and then once he asked you about it, that made me curious as well - when at first I hadn't really noticed).
Yes, sorry, I get verbose, my apologies to anyone I may have offended. I would be all for a serious discussion on two breastplates and the illogical ideas it could represent as opposed to the intentions of it in the game, just I'm not staff, wasn't around when the 2nd breastplate was added and can't speak for choices made for reasons beyond my comprehension.

Besides, how'd you know my RL name was Francis, I thought I made that private.

Edit:

In fairness, a better explanation of armour and how there are two breastplates work in game terms might be beneficial to those interested ...

Armour is classified by tier and type.

Tier is simply what the armour is; tier 1 is cloth, tier 2 is leather, up to tier 7 which is heavy plate. They also correspond to the defensive skills a character might have (ie, a mage has a trainable skill 'cloth armour' while a cavalier has 'heavy plate armoru'). It is important because metal armours interfere with certain types of magic (conjuring based), but even someone without skill in using an armour can wear it for some protection.

Type defines which body parts it covers. Body parts include head, torso, right and left arm, right and left hand, right and left leg, right and left foot as well as # of fingers for the purposes of wearing rings. There are 17 types that I am aware of, not being staff. Some seem exclusive to 'cloth' type armours (or I haven't found metal armour yet to fit into those slots), such as 'shirt' or 'hat'. Some types only cover one part, a 'vest' only covers the torso. While others cover multiple parts, like 'body armour' covers torso and both arms, and 'full armour' covers torso, both arms, and both legs, and the tabi is a 'long sock' and covers a foot and a leg.

In the example I provided, the basic breastplate is a vest, it reads as 'a small chest protector made of one piece of metal' - maybe like Clint Eastwood (and later Marty McFly). The steel breastplate is a body armour, described as covering most of the wearer's torso and offering great protection. So, getting into that detail, the single piece of metal breastplate is quite possibly just dangling over the steel breastplate, like a Flavor Flav clock and offering some protection as such.

Perhaps better still is that the naming of the breastplate, meaning a plate over the breast, versus a breastplate, as in covering the entire torso (chest and back), has left it confusing on the surface?

Last edited by Lotherio : 04-03-2013 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:22 PM   #13
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Originally Posted by Tristan1992 View Post
Hmm I like the sound of that. I too dislike it when important information is only available in the memories of the older players. Who knows what they've forgotten.

I should visit Haven again, my comment seems to indicate I was intrigued and I'm now taking a break from my main MUD (which has a Haven domain as an aside).
Ya, I'm not a fan of having to have a 'vet' player guide me through things either, because its not in the help files or not explained anywhere else (website, etc.). I love complex systems, especially if I can figure it out on my own.

If you visit Haven again, let me know, I'll help where I can.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:47 PM   #14
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

oops, wrong game.

Last edited by Sebguer : 04-03-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:17 PM   #15
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Yes, sorry, I get verbose, my apologies to anyone I may have offended.
No offense taken. At least not by me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotherio View Post
Besides, how'd you know my RL name was Francis, I thought I made that private.
I've been using the internet since 1991. I have my ways...

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Originally Posted by Sebguer View Post
It's also one of the few games to feature a 'rape' command, which can get your character pregnant alongside their coded menstrual cycles. You know, in case you want to test theories about whether the body has systems to shut that down.

*eyeroll*
Da fuq?

Seriously?
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:06 PM   #16
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

Oops. Wrong Haven.

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Old 04-04-2013, 09:56 AM   #17
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

Quote:
Originally Posted by Threshold View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebguer
It's also one of the few games to feature a 'rape' command, which can get your character pregnant alongside their coded menstrual cycles. You know, in case you want to test theories about whether the body has systems to shut that down.

*eyeroll*

Da fuq?

Seriously?
Heh, I'll take the double breastplates any day over the other Haven he seems to have been referring too
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:00 AM   #18
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

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Heh, I'll take the double breastplates any day over the other Haven he seems to have been referring too
Hahahahahaha. No kidding!
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:14 PM   #19
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Re: Haven Mud: Demons, Buddhist Monks and Everything Between

Real quick, if you’re read this thread and are reading this, thanks for putting up with all the spam.

As I’ve only ever commented in other threads on why I like Haven, addressing other points, I thought I should write my own version of what I like about Haven.

The other posts like to mention all the races/classes/etc. and to me that boils down to fluff. There are a lot of great Muds around with 20+ races this, or 20+ classes that, or 20+ skills. These are not so much important to me as the mechanics and ease of use of these mechanics. The skill system and its visual layout are the heart of this. If anyone has played Nightmare LP Muds before (including the original Nightmare 3 and later Nightmare IV), they will be familiar with this. The difference between former Nightmare Muds and Haven is that you do not have to use a skill to raise it, rather you gain XP by using your skills and you decide where to spend the XP – which skills to raise.

The skills are divided into three groups: primary, secondary, and other. As one might imagine the primary skills are those that one will use to grind the most, in the gain of XP and/or monetary. Supplemented by secondary and other. A basic skill set is gained by joining a class, but the game allows for customization of these as a player sees fit through the awarding of developmental points which can be spent to buy/raise skills. Skills not needed or unused can be dropped.

Skills play a rather important role, when one chooses a weapon skill that weapon becomes the primary focus. Not everyone runs around swinging a sword because the best ‘weapon’ in the game is the ‘sword of doom’, rather one chooses the weapon based on the skill they utilize and the skill plays a far more important role in determining hit and damage. Some fighters will stick to swords, others can choose to raise other weapon skills to suit their fancy and be just as effective as the basic sword/axe fighter at higher levels.

As much as the skill choice affects a fighter, so too does it affect spell casters. Looking at spells alone, not even considering spells for bards and bard types, there are six primary skills. The first three (conjuring, faith, natural) focus on the source of the spell’s power, while the later three skills (evocation, enchantment, necromancy) focus on the type of spells. Thus spells based on conjuring evocation (for those with these skills) are different than spells based in natural necromancy). Further still faith based users have more spells flavored to their chosen religion. A sea based religion grants its followers the ability to heal ships, or always know where they are on the wide open ocean while a religion based on decay will have various poison spells to whither at opponents over time.

These mechanics slowly border into the realm of flavor/fluff, but I’m trying to avoid exact theme. The next interesting thing is the concept of pets. In general, those NPC/Mobs that certain casters/etc. can summon to fight at their side. These are radically different as well. Yes, basic mages can eventually charm any sentient in the game to come fight at their side, boosting them with whatever spells they have access too. The idea of animals is expanded to include rather high level animals that natural spell casters can charm such animals to fight at their side as well. Indeed, necromancer’s can summon the dead and as their necromancy skill increases, so too does the power of the minions they summon. Clerics can summon effigies, representations of their faith and like religious spells, these are unique to religion. By example, the sea based religion can summon a kraken to fight at their side.

This gets into what I like, exploration. To start with, the Mud is not set up so that everyone uses the same trainers for fighting/guild/class/etc. A fighter from one town uses their town trainer while the fighter from another town uses their trainer. Not every town has access to the same trainers. This one always got to me, when the evil races and the good races go to the same guy to level up/learn new skills/etc. etc. On Haven, you can be a lizardman, use the lizardman trainer, and go off and kill the elven trainers if you really want to, all to your hearts content. Heck, because so few people play this game now, one could do this and not expect any repercussions from killing off other town mobs. There isn’t the same old newbie forest with newbie chipmunks. Most areas have varying areas of play from newbie into the mid-higher levels of play, thus the dwarf newbies might be in an underground newbie area, fighting troglodytes, while the elven newbies might be in the forest grinding away.

There are four continents one can access, offering plenty of exploration, but the oceans are vast. Like areas on the land, the waters are divided up. Newbie sailors can sell coastal waters of the man continent, encountering fisherman in loan boats while experienced sailors can travel to distant lands and encounter slave ships, where when they board to fight the captain and pirate the ship, slaves burst from the hold to fight alongside them. The round world (more cylindrical) is expansive and the above takes place in a stretch roughly 15-25 % of the total circumference. The rest is a presently a dangerous sea that only the most experienced of sailors sail upon. This doesn’t even get into travel between the plains.

A curiosity might lie in the fact that the developed area of exploration and a round world is so small. But this mud is really traditional, moving from player to staffer is encouraged. Its codified with a ‘test’ one can take to transition from player to entry level staffer, learn the code, and improve to contribute area/concepts/ideas to the game itself. While it comes down to the approval of other staff, the test is in place simply to make sure someone has learned the basics of the theme itself.

The one downfall, presently, staff are usually busy RL. This isn’t their job, its something they enjoy doing and its all set up to encourage others interested in the same thing to participate and even contribute. If they know someone is around, they make fair effort to try and be near a screen, but that’s not always feasible. With lack of staff and few players left, one doesn’t always have someone available to answer the questions and I know that can be frustrating for a newbie. In light of that, I’m usually on 8 hours a day (~8 Am to 5 PM CST (-6 GMT)) and am available here (pm me) to answer any questions.


I didn't want to post a new thread, so I am posting this as a reply in the other players advertisement.
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