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Old 08-28-2003, 04:12 PM   #1
xVampLordx
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I am interested in starting a Mud, I have an outline of what it can be. I have Built for a couple different Muds before and enjoy this very much. But I have no clue about coding, which from what I hear is the heart of any Mud. The coding.

My question is this; Is it possible to build a world without having any coding exp.? I'm sure I could find a coder willing to help. I have a small group of builders that want to be a part of this idea. So if I could only find a coder or possible two I feel it could work. Any advice please let me know. I am always willing to hear it.

Thanks,
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Old 08-28-2003, 04:47 PM   #2
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Here are a couple of my TMS columns on this topic:

http://www.topmudsites.com/backstage02.shtml
http://www.topmudsites.com/backstage07.shtml

Here's a TMS column by Feor on the topic:

http://www.topmudsites.com/article17.shtml
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Old 08-28-2003, 05:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (xVampLordx @ Aug. 28 2003,16:12)
I am interested in starting a Mud, I have an outline of what it can be. I have Built for a couple different Muds before and enjoy this very much. But I have no clue about coding, which from what I hear is the heart of any Mud. The coding.

My question is this; Is it possible to build a world without having any coding exp.? I'm sure I could find a coder willing to help. I have a small group of builders that want to be a part of this idea. So if I could only find a coder or possible two I feel it could work. Any advice please let me know. I am always willing to hear it.

Thanks,
xVampLordx
Short answer: yes.

I had no coding experience (well, I did a little basic in high school) when I started Achaea, but managed to slowly learn. I got the game to the point where it could attract skilled coders (as opposed to your standard coder volunteer in a small mud), recruited them as volunteers and then hired the best. This was over the space of years of course; not an overnight thing.

--matt
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Old 08-28-2003, 06:32 PM   #4
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Imo, its the "general concepts" what shapes the mud, not nifty code. It just could be somewhat harder to find a codebase which suits you instead of just changing the codebase to suit you, but that's possible for sure.
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Old 08-28-2003, 06:47 PM   #5
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attract skilled coders (as opposed to your standard coder volunteer in a small mud),

Wouldn't your post have the same meaning without the parenthetical insult tossed in?

To the original poster, I think it depends on your goals. If you want to work off an existing framework (e.g. a stock codebase, non-commercial), I think you can develop the areas enough to show people that you're capable of running the project. From there, you need to find a skilled coder with some free time to help the features keep up with your plan. We've had Implementors who never touched code, and it worked out well for us- there's other major roles to contribute as far as building, administrating, and generating ideas.

This might also be easier if you're shooting for an environment that's more about roleplay and less about quantitative aspects like combat. Good storytelling doesn't require as much code expertise (you need a versatile communications interface, but less as far as objects, etc.).

If your goal is to develop a unique codebase eventually, the sooner you have a senior coder on board, however, the better.
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Old 08-28-2003, 07:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Valg @ Aug. 28 2003,18:47)
attract skilled coders (as opposed to your standard coder volunteer in a small mud),

Wouldn't your post have the same meaning without the parenthetical insult tossed in?
Not meant as an insult. Was just clarifying what I meant by skilled.

--matt
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Old 08-28-2003, 07:30 PM   #7
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Another point that I don't think has been addressed is that running your own MUD will be a great learning opportunity, and where you may start out with a stock mud with no coding skills, you may end up as a veteran coder with an awesome original creation.

My advice is to do just this. The best way to learn to code a MUD is to just jump right in.

Good luck!
- Ryan
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Old 09-09-2003, 12:59 AM   #8
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Be careful who you trust, I started out the same way. I didnt know a thing about coding! I took in some "friends" that wanted to help code and things always turned up missing or broken, usually right after a disagreement on the direction things were going. "Things" like this went on for about a year and a half, then I got lucky, I found out that someone in my own family has a fairly decent background in C, C++, which is what my mud uses, and other coding languages as well. It took a while to get him interested in the idea, but once he got into it, it stuck. He's been making drastic changes to our codebase ever since, and he does try to explain things to me, which helps. I'm learning my code, bit by bit.
*Be very careful who you give access to.
*Make your own backups, and keep plenty, especially the very first, just in case. A good ftp program will make that easy.
*Get a server you can trust, or set one up yourself. Be wary of free servers.
*Have a plan, even if it's just something simple, have one. Get a group of creative minds together to help you enhance your ideas, and go for it.
*Dont let anyone tell you that you cant do it. You can do anything you put your mind to. It just takes time.
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Old 09-09-2003, 10:31 AM   #9
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Creating a successful MUD is almost entirely dependent on the team of people in charge. If they work well together, have complimentary skill sets and are dedicated to the project (this being probably the toughest one when starting out) it's certainly doable.

One piece of advice I would offer is that you should expect to learn how to code, even the basics, and do so early and work on it long term.

Up until about a month ago, if not less, I had never coded at all, but I am one of 3 people in charge of running a MUD. I was building, doing administration, etc. - there's no shortage of things to do even if you don't code.

I finally decided to take the leap and figure out how to code. I realize, with no formal training, and only being a month in, that it's unlikely I'll ever be an expert, but you don't have to be to make leaps and bounds for your MUD.

I have great teachers, people willing to walk through things with me and help me out (very important), and there's also tutorials online and books you can read.

To date I've coded a few features, including stables, a few commands and generally been able to go in and do some bug fixing and minor tweaking (i.e. even fixing spelling errors, etc. while very minor and easy improves the game).

The whole point of this is that unless you have people working with you on the project, coders that are great and as dedicated as you are, it will often lead to disappointment. They won't do as much as you like, they'll disappear for other projects, they'll become disinterested, etc. It is rare to find someone willing to put in massive time and effort into a MUD that they don't "own".

So it is best to at least learn some basics for yourself, so that if there's a lack of coders around at any time in the process, you can step in and keep making progress. You'll likely never be a master coder, but you'd be surprised what you can accomplish with a good book, some quality teachers and time.

Best of luck.

Pleos
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Old 04-05-2014, 02:40 PM   #10
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

I started with a code base, no coding experience. I've learned the basic C++ thru books, and online references. I have fixed code errors, and bugs in the game.

The big difference with coding and building, is if you edit the code, you have to recompile the game. Which means you need to know Linux, to have the changes take place. All in-game things, like building, you simply reboot the mud.

If you have never coded, pick up a tool like NOTEPAD++, which helps you read the code in a uniform format.
Also you can use a website like
List of Videos for C++
Good luck.
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Old 04-07-2014, 07:00 PM   #11
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

Wow, this post is 11 years old, but the answer is always the same and found here for those who care:

http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/mu...r-own-mud.html

Enjoy the nastalgia.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:25 PM   #12
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

Now there's a necro for the record books.
I wonder if he ever built a MUD.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:36 AM   #13
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

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Originally Posted by Ghostcat View Post
Now there's a necro for the record books.
I wonder if he ever built a MUD.
I kind of want to make a documentary about him. "The Man Who Might Have Built a MUD."
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:39 PM   #14
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_logos View Post
I kind of want to make a documentary about him. "The Man Who Might Have Built a MUD."
I will be your key grip or boom operator.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:44 PM   #15
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

I'll be pizza retrieval boy. This will certainly be a hit!
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Old 04-09-2014, 01:18 AM   #16
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

Did you guys see Indie Game: The Movie? (Great documentary on the making of four prominent indie games.)

If someone can make a movie about hardcore indie games fun to watch, someone could make a movie about MUDs fun to watch. Not sure how many people would find it particularly interesting beyond MUD fans and hardcore documentary buffs, but it's a nice thought.

Unlikely to ever happen, sadly, unless a story good enough comes out of the modern MUD community. What we need is for someone to attack a MUD, DDOS it, kidnap the owner(s), and abscond to Turkmenistan or somewhere else most of us know next to nothing about. The frosting on the cake will be that the ransom demanded must be paid....in bitcoin. That'll get the mass media excited.

Who wants to get kidnapped? I have a guy.
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Old 04-09-2014, 01:49 PM   #17
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

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Originally Posted by the_logos View Post
Did you guys see Indie Game: The Movie? (Great documentary on the making of four prominent indie games.)

If someone can make a movie about hardcore indie games fun to watch, someone could make a movie about MUDs fun to watch. Not sure how many people would find it particularly interesting beyond MUD fans and hardcore documentary buffs, but it's a nice thought.
Because I work in production (film and tv) I have actually dabbled with putting together a film (likely for film festivals) about a player in a MUD and the drama surrounded them both inside and outside the game. I've done the treatment (pre script synopsis) but haven't had the time or inclination to put more into it, but perhaps one day I will.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:00 PM   #18
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

You know, no matter how many threads I see that consist of 'How do I start a MUD' I never see anybody say: Well, you need to do this, this, and this to compile a DIKU (or what have you) codebase, and this is how you get all that info onto your server - oh, right, you'll need one of those: this is how you do that! Then this is how you log in. This is how you edit your code, so now you gotta learn what that code means. Good luck, ciao.

It's mostly philosophies and advice on the psychology that actually comes with running one.

Edit: Logos, we'd get more publicity if we kidnapped you, as the CEO of some of the most commercially successful MUDs. Please send your guy's resume over, I'll give him a ring.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:35 PM   #19
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leech View Post
You know, no matter how many threads I see that consist of 'How do I start a MUD' I never see anybody say: Well, you need to do this, this, and this to compile a DIKU (or what have you) codebase, and this is how you get all that info onto your server - oh, right, you'll need one of those: this is how you do that! Then this is how you log in. This is how you edit your code, so now you gotta learn what that code means. Good luck, ciao.

It's mostly philosophies and advice on the psychology that actually comes with running one.
Well, I think that's because usually the OPs of those threads don't ask specific questions about a specific codebase. If someone does, and if it sounds like they have read the README file and done their due diligence googling for an answer, and they sound like they are eager to learn, then I'm sure they'd get a number of very helpful responses.

The reality is, most of those threads are started by people who are not ready to be helped. If you respond with a bunch of specific steps about a specific codebase, there's a serious chance you'd be wasting your time.
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Old 04-09-2014, 10:13 PM   #20
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Re: Starting a Mud without any coding exp.

Seriously though, someone made a decent documentary about text adventures (Get Lamp) so I'm sure a legit doc could be made about muds, even without kidnapping.

Though if there was kidnapping, certainly that would spice it up.
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