[Steiner]

[Falconer]

Be careful with your word choice then.

[Xanferious]

Vietnam was not a war, atleast the USA says, they called it a policing policy to help south vietnam,

[Steiner]

[Alexander Tau]

Let me start by saying you have put some good thought into
your concept, and I agree that other periods of time could make
for some great games.

But that war? It would be my last choice to make, or to play. WWII,
the American Revolution, those would have a much broader appeal.

The only real problem I see with a military game is that it will not
have a wide appeal. For any army to function, people have to follow
orders, it seems to me that the MU* community is mostly about people
acting solo, or at least for their own purposes.

In a military conflict there would have to be a real shift in focus, making
a big enough map for large scale conflict is not going to trivial with any
codebase I am familiar with as well. The war you are discussing did not
have clear goals, we were not defending our homes, but the 'enemy' was.

One comment about your choice of words. I think you somewhat missed
the point in the reactions. It seemed to me that you used the word 'gay'
to mean 'bad, incorrect, silly' or something to that effect. It is not to spare
the feelings of a particular group, real or imaginary, it is that society has
finally started to really accept differences as just that, different.

And while there are exteme groups that go too far, I am sure you wish
to consume in a responsible manner, with some thought as to what sort
of world might be around for the next generation. That is the real goal
and a very wise one for the human race.

A.T
(-)

[Grey]

Medieval Fantasy, Sci-FI, Anime, etc etc..
This is what people are into in nowadays. I don't see a reason to make a MUD on the revolutionary war of america or the civil war. Who would want to play with those? Making a mud historically accurate isn't as fun as you might think.

[Alexander Tau]

My personal choice for this sort of game would be WWII. Although
WWII Online is out there already, and graphic to boot.

Any theme could be fun, if it can find an audience. I think the real
stumbling block is the issue of 'following Orders' as opposed to the
free-wheeling style of the average Mud player.

But... on the other hand, there are a lot of people who really love
all things War, so depending on how it was done there is certainly
a potential audience.

A.T
(-)

[Steiner]

I'm glad you understand what I meant AT, with the "gay" remark, I was being sarcastic in my explanation. Like I said, I'll try and be as sensitive as possible on the issue.

You're right, I have put a lot of thought into this... and more will come. You're also both right in the fact that for the most part this WILL be order driven. What it all boils down to, is a MUD like this, or any realism-based MUD is going to attract only a certain "elite" type player that specializes in history or the art of war.

The truth is, I had first considered above all creating a MUD based on the age of sails. Pirates, British, Spanish, even the fledgling Americans.. ect. This was a very feasable idea, since you could incorporate buying and selling ect. Point is ladies and gentlemen, I don't want something easy. I want something "revolutionary!" lol. I want people that never considered playing text games until they found out they could fight in an online war in many different field of battle, all interactive with other players. I want the players to come and say, "Wow this is completely different than anything I've ever tried in a MUD."

Most importantly I want something people will go away remembering and saying, "What a great game that was. Remember that time we were both shot down over enemy territory.."

By the way people, if you like my idea... contact me at Smokejumperjon on AIM and gimme your ideas, code snippets, tutorials, documented information, body parts, non-used condoms, and really anything else that can help me get this freak show on the road.

[Alexander Tau]

If you have been around here much you probably know I am very
much for unique game concepts. I too like to do things that really
push the envelope.

And I am a bit of a military buff, so we share a common ground.

What I am really curious about is 1) what codebase and 2) how
are you going to set up the battlefields and combat.

As a game is this going be an 'endless' war with things either
resetting or just not allowing the players to every really win?

A.T
(-)

[Steiner]

[Alexander Tau]

I am mostly trying to be helpful and nudge you in the direction
of full scale Mud design. Making a whole reality is a HUGE task but
one that many have accomplished.

I know you have a lot of player ideas, and good ones. But those are
really the end of the process. What your characters can do is based on
the World, rules, commands, and systems that are created.

So as you consider the map and how that might have to work, think
about the other details of the World. Terrain and what other factors
have to be included. I can tell you that a lot of the stuff that is really
vital to normal combat is not present in any mud codebase. Weapons
that fire beyond a single room are not standard, and a source of endless
debate.

A.T
(-)

[Steiner]

Believe it or not, I have done a lot of work on the more un-interesting parts of play, I am using the "Design as I play" idea. I start out as one of the characters and see what exactly this character will need to do (and rules to guide him) to make it a good game.

You're more than right when you say that I get sidetracked a lot, it's true. But I have also began to outline the hardcore material for the MUD, even the grid mapping of Vietnam. I have began research from outside and first-hand sources in the war, to see what features and weapons I need to include.

I suppose I will put a post for Coders and Builders, or any staff, since my server became a reality last night. Wish me luck guys.

[Frakkle]

However in so far as a realistic mud, I think it would be rather fun to play this.

One idea you might consider so as to avoid the controversial issues and whatnot is to fabricate a time in history completely, and thoroughly.

Say you want a pirate theme? Pick a time in history wherein very little was happening and make up a few villain figureheads, their domains, some fanatical cultists (there always are some.. just don't name them and don't make them seem to parallel any religion), some lunatics, heretics, a few prophets, the figureheads who try to be good and just but also have a few dark secrets up their sleeve, and your players, who have to figure out what the hell is going on and who they want to side with.

Simply place the geography on scattered islands and you have pirates. Players could pick a role of an evil pirate, pillaging and all that, or a tactful good-natured piarte, who try only to take out ships of cruel nations.

That sets you up for a reputation factor, where after awhile you get a bounty on your head (whether from good or evil kingdoms), and you'll find yourself hunted by other ships.

And so on.

There's a lot to go on in so far as a realistic mud, but it's best to stay away from 'real' history, in my opinion.

[Steiner]

You're right to a certain extent Frakkle, it is good to avoid certain controversy. On the other hand, many games out there don't bother... games based purely on history.

I've Decided that we are going to build a MUD based on Vietnam, however it will not be the same. It will not have the same people, or near the involvement in the beginning that it did in real life. Everything else will be the same as far as weaponry and the types of people that were there.

Everything in the past that has been done, and done well, has sparked some sort of complaint or controversy. I expect this. I am going to treat this MUD with the utmost respect to those that lost their lives in this war, and in memory of them show people what they really had to go through by recreating the same senario, that this time will be changed (the outcome and battles) by the players themselves.

[Cougar Khan]

How about starting a MUD from a certain point in history; The invention of electricity, and build from there. Let the MUD create its own future, while maintaining some portions of a history we all know. It may be fun, may not be.

This reminds me of the old story where people used Hot Air Balloons to travel into outerspace in the 19th Century - was that a TSR product?

[Letum]

Wonderful, someone else agrees!

I have actually had the idea for quite some time now. My idea includes enhanced detailed and would be based on the politics of the real world today. Everything would be player-controlled and the politics in-depth. If you can't tell, I would like to be a politician in a MUD world, so thats why I had the idea. Sounds good to me though, and if your developing that MUD I would LOVE to help out.

-Letum