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Old 05-25-2004, 07:57 PM   #1
the_logos
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A consistently highly ranked mud was recently removed from TMS for cheating to inflate vote totals (I won't name it, but I'm sure most of you noticed its sudden absence from the top 5).

The new cheaters are Dawn of Eternity. I mean, give me a break. It's almost insulting that these morons think anyone's going to believe they're legit when their website doesn't even have a vote button that is easily found, and when their mud has a whole 3 players online currently.

I've mailed Adam about them and I'm sure he'll remove them promptly. I suppose this post wasn't necessary but cheaters are irritating.

--matt
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Old 05-25-2004, 08:24 PM   #2
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Old 05-25-2004, 08:43 PM   #3
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Yeah, that's quite annoying, I agree. Having said that though, it's quite possible that those conditions have changed for that mud (like playerbase size, PK rules, class-based to classless, or vice-versa, etc etc) and they just didn't think to update their listing. If that's the case, it's quite forgiveable I'd think, as there's no malice intended. Cheating on the votes, on the other hand, is a blatantly malicious act, since it's a competition to get the top spots in order to get more traffic to your site and there's no way anyone is pumping votes at the site with a clever script or whatever thinking it's a legitimate practice.

--matt
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:12 PM   #4
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Great minds think alike I guess Logos. I e-mailed Synozeer about Dawn of Eternity maybe 2 or 3 days after the vote reset. I noticed they had around 167 votes, and their game info said they only have between 6 and 10 players online at any given moment.

I figured there were probably double that amount of players who actually played - though not playing at the same time - and concluded that there was absolutely no possible way in the world 20 people would be capable of providing their game with 167 votes in 3 days even if all 20 voted twice a day.

Given that the votes only represent only SOME of the players in the games they play - since not everyone votes - just not possible, ya know?

Hopefully Synozeer will investigate and either put the concerns to rest by stating it's legit, or remove the game from the list if it proves to be a case of cheating.
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:46 PM   #5
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:23 PM   #6
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Imperian's admins eat tuna that isn't dolphin-safe. If it gets to #1, the pandas will also go extinct. Stop Imperian Now. (S.I.N.)

--matt
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:42 PM   #7
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I not only eat tuna that isn't dolphin-safe, I also eat dolphins.

Do I win?
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Old 05-25-2004, 11:49 PM   #8
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Do not be fooled, SIN has been offically classified as the eighth deadliest thing in the world. Achaea's administrators are directly responsible for draining their players' souls in worship of their demonic mistress. It's in the small print of their Terms of Service, along with the blood of all customers' first born.

Support Imperian, save your soul.
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Old 05-26-2004, 04:41 PM   #9
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Old 05-27-2004, 02:29 PM   #10
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Hmm, ever notice how Synozeer keeps growing Xs in his avatar? I bet he's keeping track of kills.
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Old 05-27-2004, 04:39 PM   #11
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What is it that he's killing that he wants to keep track of?
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Old 05-27-2004, 09:48 PM   #12
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Heh.

I find it vaguely ironic that the owner of Achaea of all people would be crying foul on people cheating.

Anyways, back to lurking!
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Old 05-27-2004, 11:19 PM   #13
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Why's that? I'm the resident expert on our games, and none of them have ever cheated, in any way. If you have information that neither I nor Synozeer have, I'm sure both of us would enjoy hearing it.

--matt
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Old 05-27-2004, 11:23 PM   #14
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They cheat by having a name that sounds like Ayatollah and get the terrorist vote. *nods sagely*
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Old 05-27-2004, 11:55 PM   #15
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Exp for clicking on a link.

New rules about cheating/votes.

Enough said.
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Old 05-28-2004, 12:17 AM   #16
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Yes. Once the new rules were made, it became illegal. As we were in communication with Synozeer about those very rules changes, we ceased before the rules were changed.

Perhaps you're not aware of this, but if you were to outlaw smoking today, those who had smoked in the past would not become law-breakers retroactively. If you believe that's not the case, and that a change in the rules is retroactive, perhaps you should mail Synozeer and let him know that you believe we should be banned for something we did that was not against the rules when we did it. I'm sure he'll mail you back with an appropriate, and (in your case) unduly polite, response.

--matt
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Old 05-28-2004, 12:57 AM   #17
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-sigh-

And yet, you miss the point, as always, Sarapis.

It was only one MUDs (Group of MUDs?) actions that made it illegal.

I'd argue that it was because only one MUD (Group?) had the technical expertise and the will to do such a thing, but it'll rapidly become an exercise in circular logic likely. Either that, or you quickly jumping on the most convenient logical fallacy.

Either way, too much effort for no gain. -heads back to lurker mode-

-D
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Old 05-28-2004, 02:12 AM   #18
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How odd. It was an open secret that many MUDs engaged in the practice. And as you say, it was made illegal. It wasn't illegal when we were doing it. Thus, anyone doing it wasn't cheating until the rule was changed. It's not complicated.

Heh, the technical expertise required is trivial. Every MUD in the top 20 has it. There's little doubt we forced the change in the rules, but considering Synozeer knew about it for 6 months before the rules were changed, it obviously wasn't some big crisis. What's kind of amusing is that we get more votes now than we did then, and we don't offer rewards for voting anymore. We're just good at motivating our players to vote, as is Aardwolf.

--matt
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Old 05-28-2004, 02:21 AM   #19
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Oh my! Someone on a TMS forum going after Sarapis with little or no grounds for their baseless accusations?!

SOMEONE CALL THE NEWSPAPERS!

Leigh
CTO
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Old 05-28-2004, 04:32 AM   #20
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As a player of all of Iron Realms MUDs (especially Achaea) for a long time, I'd just like to say that they don't need to cheat, nor do they as most people realise anyway.

Why do they have 3 games in the top five? Because they run good, interesting games for people with all interests; because they work damned hard to make sure all issues are dealt with quickly and that their players are looked after and, most of all, they spend a lot of time developing new areas, events and games to make sure that the MUD boredom doesn't set in.

Go Sarapis! You're doing a good job!
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