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Old 07-02-2002, 03:48 PM   #21
Pasano
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My take on this is as follows. Paying builders sets a dangerous precident for free muds.

I realize and respect that as an admin, you want to give your players the highest quality possible, and I realize that you're willing to make personal sacrafice in the name of that high quality, by paying out of your own pocket.

Most other muds would not be willing to do such things, and if a few places start paying.... everyone might start expecting it. I'm looking to put together a mud in the near future, and I'd hate to go into it, write a few zillion lines of code, and then pay someone to build. Also. If I hire out coders, are they as well going to demand salary? What about quest immortals? This becomes dangerous, because it might create an environment where others who contribute feel taken for granted. And if coders start asking for $50 a skill/spell or questers start demanding $10 a quest, you've got a big problem.

Simply tell your players/builders this: If you do this work, and do it well, I will make it worth your time and effort. Don't say how. Deal with it case by case and make sure it stays between yourself and each induvidual.

Usually, you can probably pay them off within the game itself, depending on the structure of the game, with experience, IC-money or IC-power. Most players will respect the fact that certain people who contribute to the growth and well-being of the game are rewarded. For the few who feel alienated by it, at least the specifics are not rubbed in their faces.

Beyond that, I've got about 10 minutes of building experience, but drop me a line. I'm sure I can learn the ins and outs of it in another 10 minutes and assuming I like your game, I'd probably be more than thrilled to come on and do some building. I might not build an area a week but I'd definately do quality work.
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Old 07-02-2002, 03:50 PM   #22
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Sorry about the double post.

What I wanted to close by saying is this

The fact that you're willing to consider such a thing shows a great commitment to what you're doing. I don't know about others, but to me this is a hell of a gesture on your part even if it doesnt happen. That alone would motivate me to work harder as a builder. It's a show of desire and direction for the MU* to go somewhere good.
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Old 07-02-2002, 04:47 PM   #23
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Heya all,

In response to Pasano:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Usually, you can probably pay them off within the game itself, depending on the structure of the game, with experience, IC-money or IC-power. Most players will respect the fact that certain people who contribute to the growth and well-being of the game are rewarded. For the few who feel alienated by it, at least the specifics are not rubbed in their faces.
On the mud I play, the builders are mostly players or immortals from the same game. Although it is a prerequisite to gain one immortal rank, the other players and imms don't "gain" anything by it, but a bigger world.
This is just to show that there are people who care enough about a game to do it for free (totally free).

They are out there, just need to find them.

Greetings Dre
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Old 07-02-2002, 09:08 PM   #24
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Thank you Neranz, Brianna, Pasano, and everybody else that replied to this post. I have decided not to pay my builders. It was just an aspect I had to explore, an option I could not let slip by, even though it meant that I had to pay for it personally with my own money.

For all of you that wonder; I do run a free mud. Running a commercial mud on the CircleMUD codebase would be close to a cardinal sin, damn close. No, don't start a codebase war on this thread, just give up. I know some of you do not like CircleMUD, and vice versa, just save it for later. Write some rooms instead!

These forums are lovely, by the way, and from what I've seen since I signed up a couple of weeks ago, all of you seem to be really nice. I just wanted to apologize for venting my thoughts in such an open fashion and for not being able to filter my posts from these personal outbursts.

Thank you for exceptionally constructive and intelligent input!
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Old 07-08-2002, 07:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Artovil @ June 30 2002,3:12 pm)
What I try to communicate to any builder that applies for a position is the following:
The area has to conform to the theme (inserts explanation of theme along with any question from builder)
If they do not want to build an entire area, they can write descriptions for empty rooms that are already mapped.
Foremostly I want room descriptions, and after those are done, the builder is free to do whatever they wish, if that be DG Scripts, mobs, or room parsing.
I think your wanting room descriptions might be the problem. Room descriptions can get old after a while, and for some builders, room descriptions are their least favorite things. I know that as a builder there are times when the last part of an area I want to do is room descriptions.

Your builders may feel like they're trapped by havcing to create the world without the mobs and objects. Some people like to create small sections as a time, and saying "no mobs, objs or DG scripts until you're done with the descriptions" can put them off.
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Old 07-09-2002, 03:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (smadronia @ July 09 2002,12:42 am)
I think your wanting room descriptions might be the problem. Room descriptions can get old after a while, and for some builders, room descriptions are their least favorite things. I know that as a builder there are times when the last part of an area I want to do is room descriptions.
Perhaps you're right. I am just too honest, my greatest bloody flaw. Because what it really boils down to is that I don't need any more objects, mobiles, or DG Scripts. Those are the easiest aspect of any zone, and I can do those myself, or let our head builder do them.

Although I do not tell aspiring builders that they cannot do anything else until all the rooms are done, what I want to see is a couple of rooms that I can actually use in the world, then they are free to do what they want.

To reverse the positions for a little while, I understand that room descriptions can get old after a while, and that they are not all that funny after a while, then consider how I feel after having written a tenfold of said descriptions and having remapped 220 rooms into three consecutive zones just because I felt it would be better for resets and certain mob quests, and that's just this week. I just wish I had the inspiration, then I'd do it myself. *grumbles*

Next builder to set foot on my builder port will get free reigns within the theme of the mud, and access to DG Scripts as soon as they've proven their worth... *sagenods*
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Old 07-23-2002, 12:33 AM   #27
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I know I'm a little late in replying, but I thought I would go ahead.

I was probably the main builder on a MUD I previously played on.  I started building because I wanted to, but then realized a few special priviledges I was granted for building.  The IMPs would ask my ideas and input.  I had some say on minor changes and policies.  And it felt nice.  Some people can't handle that responsibility of course, eventually a few people applied to build who were incapable of being mature about it. (I.E. Statting items on the builder port for their characters gain on the main port).

Certain responsibilities and priviledges should be enough incentive for most builders.  They can actually contribute to the MUD in several ways.  At least that's with my experience, and I've been building for several years.

Paying builders can only turn into a hassle.  But I'm glad you've decided not to.  Good luck
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Old 11-01-2002, 04:49 PM   #28
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Cool

As a builder on a MUD that's intended to be pay-to-play at some point... I wouldn't mind getting paid to build. It's not something I'd like to see the free MUD's getting into, and any builder hired when they're likely to get paid should be put on probation until their work is checked out before getting the $$$.
(You also have to cope with HOW do you pay them? - The internet is a world-wide thing)

If you're going to pay builders, then coders should get something too, and maybe something for those who run BIG rp events. Equality in all things. Or you'll have well paid and happy builders, and no coders.
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Old 11-02-2002, 03:22 PM   #29
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The mud you are building on is based on ROM, which is a Diku derivative. While it is possible to get paid to build areas for a Diku derivative (because the area file format doesn't fall under copyright law) you are not legally permitted to run such a mud as pay-to-play.
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Old 11-03-2002, 01:19 AM   #30
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by (KaVir @ Nov. 02 2002,2:22 pm)
The mud you are building on is based on ROM, which is a Diku derivative.  While it is possible to get paid to build areas for a Diku derivative (because the area file format doesn't fall under copyright law) you are not legally permitted to run such a mud as pay-to-play.
The Merc/ROM is just a filler to grab interest while the main custom C++ code is finished off. Pay-to-play on MERC? nope... got to offer something special to get people to pay for it.
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