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Old 04-27-2008, 11:34 AM   #221
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

My dog in this fight is this one. You can't possibly believe that the RPI community is really catering to: "a bunch of lying, disrespectful, anal retentive morons who are so biased and ignorant that they can't remember how many races they saw on a screen not even ten minutes prior.

And in the following sentence do you really mean that we're all twinks? That seems a bit heavy handed.

I know a lot of RPI (AFS?) players and in so far as I'm aware most of us don't eat babies.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:15 PM   #222
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Okay, I'll try my best here.

Do I have a biased agenda? No, do I have an agenda? Yes. To prove my point which I could not prove in this thread, the fact remains that RPI's differ, the character creation is only one of many aspects that differ and make RPI's have superior roleplaying and atmosphere. It's harder to get into an RPI mud then it is other normal muds. RPI's are like an exclusive club where most people can't get in due to ignorance like your post you've made here.

First of all, if you're going to list what I do in the video, at least admit that most of my comments are sarcasm. If you cannot detect this then you have a long ways to go in social settings. A LOT of what I say in my videos is not to be taken serious, this is obvious by my tone of voice. The only video I have so far is the RPI viewpoints video I posted, and the difference between that video and my others is quite obvious. If you'd like I'll provide the dialogue of my video so people can see just how ridiculous it is that you guys take my comments to heart.

Wow.. I don't even know if I should reply to the thing about logging into my own mud. I even stated that I'm showing favoritism by logging into my mud, but at the same time, it still proves my point for character creation. Yes I admit during this part of the video I did go off on tangeants about the features my own mud has during character creation but is this not the point? My point was that the character creation for RPI muds is far more in-depth and I proved that, and I didn't even get 30% into the character creation process of my mud.

In my next video I did get out of ROOM 1 of character creation and I have to say I wasn't impressed, my point still stands.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:19 PM   #223
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Delerak. I will say this as succinctly and kindly as possible. You have sunken to a alltime low. Whether your video was a joke or not, it was extremely poor taste, offensive, and childish. Something we as Admin of MUDs should be above. We are the elite in games and epic roleplay not 13 year olds.

You owe Threshold an apology.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:23 PM   #224
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Again, I'll try my best here as I did with Mina's post heh.

First off I can honestly say I don't care what you think about my videos.

My point stands about character creation differences.

That's great, it still proves my point.

My mud is far from finished and there are OOC channels on RPI's they just aren't global. If a player needs help you have forums, petition (in game wishing to the immortals), Instant Messengers, and a slew of other ways to contact people to get help.


Actually, you have no idea what you're talking about. The fact is I had multiple accounts years ago, and I have had the same account for probably 4-5 years now. I had another account because one account was bugged and wouldn't let me login, that's what I was thinking about -- I probably should have made that clear in the video.


Not on-stage. I do live theatre and that's where my experiences come from. As far as your references to actors dealing with character breaks, sure. We have to deal with it, we don't have to harbor it and allow for it on our muds, that's like saying we should just let the public into the studios to watch and talk while the actors are trying to act. It's private for a reason.

If you can do better I await your link. And my shirt won't come off again. Like I stated before these videos aren't 10 straight minutes they are done throughout the day when I get time to record and say some ****.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:25 PM   #225
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

If I was trying to make attacks, I assure you I could Threshold. This is no where near the utter destruction I could weave upon your mud if I felt I would like to. I could care less about Threshold. I chose to satire your muds character creation because you stood out the most in my mind being against us using RPI for our muds, and I felt that you simply never understood our viewpoints, therefore comparing the two character creations could only help or perhaps even hinder you if that's the case now.

Also if you don't detect my sarcasm in the videos, then I don't know what to tell you, they weren't made with seriousness in mind, and you can believe whatever it is you want to believe, but I say again, the videos are all light-hearted.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:26 PM   #226
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Your mud is next on my list to compare features between RPI's and non-RPI's.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:52 PM   #227
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

You know what I don't even have to. I noticed you post logs from your mud, perfect.



Any RPI player can compare those to the ones posted on SOI and Arms websites to see the differences in roleplay between normal mud and RPI muds.


Here's arms link for RP logs.


And SOI's:

Last edited by Delerak : 04-27-2008 at 12:54 PM. Reason: added the links for arm/SOI rp logs
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:05 PM   #228
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Delerak, I really wish you'd let this one die. Dragging the thread out in debates about semantics and terms and what "kind" of roleplaying is better is just silly.
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:22 PM   #229
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Let me quote from my own post again:

And again:

If I thought they were all like this guy, do you really think that I'd feel bad for them in having this video represent them? I wouldn't bother to make that statement.

Lastly, Threshold shares many players with Armageddon and Harshlands. One of our long time players is a former admin of Harshlands, and I value her greatly as a player and a roleplayer. One of our 10+ years players is now building on the new Armageddon. She's one of the best roleplayers I know and a great person. There are tons of people who enjoy a huge variety of games, and they enjoy roleplaying in a lot of places. They haven't secluded themselves to any one type of mud. I adore most of our players, and some of them dabble on some of the AFS muds, and they move easily between the two (or three or four) games. I'd hardly classify them with the person who made those videos.
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:44 PM   #230
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

ROFL. I'm scared to see you at your worse then. You do so much to hurt your cause that I'm glad we don't share the same opinions on roleplaying and muds.

You need to look up the word biased. All your posts and all your videos dealing with AFSes are incredibly biased. If you had bothered to read this thread at all instead of going off half-cocked all the time, you'd be able to see and comprehend that everyone knows that AFSes differ, and most of us do not want to be categorized with AFSes. They have a very specific set of features that some of us believe hurt a roleplaying environment and the progress of players, and we've opted not to have those features. If you knew anything about coding, it wouldn't take more than a month of hard work to put in every feature set that AFSes have. It also doesn't take anything to add about 3 hours of work for a player to get into a game. Anyone can be anal retentive and reject dozens of character creation attempts. We actually actively make sure that this does not occur. Players are not to be kept waiting to get into the world and begin exploring their characters.

Thank you for confirming that AFSes (at least yours) are nothing more than an exclusive clubs where you're expected to jump through all sorts of hoops in order to "belong". That's been the point many of us have been trying to make for quite some time.

ROFL. I hate to inform you, but you failed miserably at seeming sarcastic. If that was your intent, you need to take some acting classes because you aren't very good at it.

If that's true, then you wouldn't be here trying to defend the points and the mistakes you made in the video. If it's satire and silliness, then the content is irrelevant, and you were just having a good laugh. You contradict yourself by arguing so vehemently the points in your film that people have taken exception to.

I thought the point was that you were trying to be funny. Isn't that what you claim the point is? Remember, I'm socially lacking because I found your video to be intentionally misleading and didn't get that you were trying to be intentionally funny. I did think you were pretty funny in a pathetic way, but most of the RPI stuff was just boring, honestly, except for the part about medieval people not knowing how to tell time or count days.

Well, good thing we're not trying to impress you, and yes, I understand that your point is that AFS muds are elitist, exclusive clubs for roleplayers who think they're way too good for any other type of game. That's been what I've been trying to get across this entire discussion*.

*(In case anyone missed it, my point has been that many, many AFS players post and behave this way, not that all of them do. )
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:49 PM   #231
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

"Utter destruction you could weave upon our mud?" Are you 10 years old or something?

Forget about Threshold and spend some time writing docs for your mud, which needs them badly. I'm bowing out of this "discussion" now that it's been turned into a useless flame fest, and I apologize for getting sucked in and contributing to it.

AFS players, please know that I do value your feature set and think that it plays a huge part in the roleplaying community. I understand the appeal of AFS games, and I wouldn't have spent time contributing to the list if I felt that it wasn't a worthy endeavor.
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:25 PM   #232
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

I could care less about threshold. It was an example in my video. I have plenty of docs for my mud as well.
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:28 PM   #233
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

I don't represent anyone but myself and my own views.
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:35 PM   #234
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

I'm glad we don't either. You play at Threshold, why am I not surprised at your retaliation?

None of my posts or videos are biased. It's my opinion, which I believe is truth. If I wanted to be biased I would blindly support any RPI mud I find but I don't. I support RPI muds that I believe do it right, but it takes a lot to do that.


I never said they were exclusive clubs, I compared them to exclusive clubs. Compared to normal muds where you can login a lot easier, this is also in regards to the character creation process. Maybe I should have made this clearer.


I've been told that by many people, but I just don't believe them.


It's only a mistake if I admit it, so far I've only mistake I've admitted is using my mud as a comparison and going into detail about my char-gen which was bias somewhat.

I'm not even gonna try and respond to this. It's a mixture of satire and making a point about something, try reading the Canterbury Tales sometime.



[/quote]
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:08 PM   #235
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Hahahahahaha BEWARE THE CRT WARRIOR!

What form would your destruction take? Would you do push ups on my server?

Are you sure your parents wouldn't walk in and ask you to take out the trash in the middle of your brutal assault?

From your videos, we learned:

1) You have been banned from at least one major mud.

2) You have been accused on multiple occasions of code theft, and in at least one occasion it was true and necessitated an "immediate fix."

3) You are 24 years old and you live with your parents.

4) You lie to your parents about your crazy activities, and seem to be trying to make them think your computer activities are far more serious and productive than they are.

5) You don't even grasp how absurd and embarrassing your own videos are.

But seriously. Please keep it up.
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:11 PM   #236
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

1) Yes.

2) I already addressed this.

3) Actually I don't, it was a joke and you're apparently too daft to realize it. But I'm actually flattered that I convinced someone, (thought my acting wasn't that great?).

4) See 3.

5) It's also embarassing if I let it. And I don't really care what you or anyone else thinks about me.
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:24 PM   #237
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

My videos are satirical in nature, they are the ones who are "dragging" this whole debate out and making me out to be the bad guy when in fact I'm just stating my firm belief in something. We're all entitled to our opinions and if anyone else has the guts to post videos of their opinions I await the link.
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:48 PM   #238
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

The abbreviation you're looking for is RPI. Using inaccurate terms like "AFS" doesn't do anything but confuse people. RPI is the historical term for games utilizing the features and philosophies shared by games like Armageddon, Harshlands, and Shadows of Isildur. One might further break down the games into three or four sub-categories such as Armageddon-Type RPI or Harshlands-Type RPI since there are small variations in the other features of these games as well as the implementation of the 19 shared features (Armageddon for example does not show any generalized skill aptitude while Harshlands uses 4 terms to broadly represent them).

Having spoken with many coders including those working on developing RPI type code from scratch, I do believe they'd find this statement inaccurate. Stock codes like Diku and the like just aren't built around RPI specifications.

As for the believe that they "hurt a roleplaying environment", I'd like to hear just how they do. I've played over 950 different MUDs, over half of them role-playing MUDs of one sort or another (including every RPI that's ever opened its doors) and if I had to sit down and make out a list of the 100 best role-playing moments I've ever seen, every one on that list would probably be from RPIs (I say probably only because I have never made such a list and can't therefore say definitely though off the top of my head I can not remember any role-play on a non-RPI that can compare to the best I've encountered on RPIs).

It doesn't take "about 3 hours of work for a player to get into" a RPI unless you count developing the concept for a character before you actually log into the port to create it. The chargen (character generation) process can take maybe 5-15 minutes depending upon user familiarity with the process. Approval can take between an hour to a day (depending on staff availability).

The last time I created a character on a RPI, I spent several days designing the character before I even logged into chargen. Chargen itself took me about 5 minutes if that. Even if I weren't familiar with the process it wouldn't have required that long a time to input the data. Was accepted on the first attempt as all my characters have been, even the very first one I ever made on a RPI because if you read the information in chargen and have a reasonable degree of English proficiency you shouldn't have problems getting through the process without a hitch.

As for the statement that "anyone can be anal retentive and reject dozens of character creation attempts", this only serves to illustrate the difference between the RPI philosophy and that of some other games. RPIs concentrate on a process intended to maintain consistency with the setting in the game world in order to provide the immersion players often say they want. You'd be surprised by the number of green-haired, black-eyed characters are submitted. The usual problems that the players commit which results in a rejected application including not reading the information on the screen or just outright disregard for it leading to unacceptable descriptions and backgrounds, use of horrible spelling and grammar, and sometimes accidently forgetting to complete parts of the process before submitting.

As for keeping a player waiting, it's not about that. It's about reviewing their application to ensure that there aren't grievous errors or incompatible elements in their description and background which could cause problems if they were in the game world. These can be stuff like the aforementioned green hair or a character having a noble background without approval (since nobility would carry with it rights in a society, it's not something you can just choose to have).

It's not being "anal" though, it's ensuring a consistent fairness and standard across the board for all players and preventing glaring inconsistencies with the game world. If just anything goes, you end up with a mess of a world. A comprehensive oversight of chargen prevents or at least limits the possibility of that happening.

Attacking all games or even one because of a single person's opinion is a dubious means of backing up an argument. The "point" many of you have been trying to make is hardly that, it seems more like a defense of a lack of standards. The tired old claim of "elitism" is just a way of opposing something or someone by attacking alleged motives rather than facts.

The same could be said of many non-RPI players as well but it's irrelevant to the discussion. I wish people would stop with the personal attacks. It's a flawed tactic. It doesn't legitimize a position to attempt or even succeed in discrediting a person with the opposing position. Even if the leader of the KKK said "2+2=4" and Mother Theresa said "2+2=5", the Klansman would be correct and she would be wrong. That he also advocated violence and racism while she works tiredlessly for the poor and suffering wouldn't matter.

Role-Playing Intensive (RPI) is a term that was applied to a specific set of features shared by a small number of games which concentrated solely on role-playing and heavily modified existing codebases to suit their needs. Those modifications occurred originally in two, later three, different games each independently coded (not sharing the same coders) and were adopted by other game developers over the years as well, most utilizing the code of one of the first two as a starting point. Along the way, the term Role-Playing Intensive or RPI was coined to describe these games because the modifications they had enacted were concentrated on supporting a philosophy of role-playing, not mob-killing like the stock codebase from which they had begun. The term began to be viewed as an indicator of quality role-play, possibly because the quality of role-play on these first games was higher than the standard found in the MUD community at the time. Whether as a result of wanting to piggyback off this perception of quality or merely as a result of poor English skills, Role-Playing Intensive became somehow associated with the belief that it meant "intense role-playing" and other games began to use the term to describe themselves. Confusion and contrasting uses of the term began to occur, sometimes causing problems for RPIs and even sometimes for non-RPIs.

Some, like myself, have sought to clarify and correct this misuse because it a) hurts RPI MUDs by attracting players who have no desire to play such type games, b) hurts the MUDding community by maintaining the lack of standards for which the community is known, c) confuses players by the inconsistent definitions employed more and more without regard for any reasonable attempt at maintaining consistency. The only ones that gain from this are a) dishonest MUD administrators who rely on propaganda to promote their game as opposed to honest descriptions, b) disingenous MUD administrators who would rather bring the standards, and perception of such standards, of the community down rather than raise the standards of their own games. While everyone likes to bitch about low standards in the community, be it an overabundance of stock Dikus or other such grumbling, the debate over the misuse of the term RPI is no different other than, for some, the shoe is on the other foot now. The term RPI is no more accurate or inaccurate now than it ever has been. The problem is not the term, it's the way in which it has been inaccurately employed without thought as to meaning. Why this has happened isn't even the point. Whether the result of deliberate deceit or simply ignorant misunderstanding, its continued abuse serves only to reinforce the negative perception that text-based games are amateurish and somehow inferior to graphicals. And that's just not true. But maintaining a community that allows blatant disregard and even deliberate undermining of any sense of standard certainly provides nothing but a black mark upon us all.

Take care,

Jason

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Old 04-27-2008, 07:24 PM   #239
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

If ever there was a sign that a thread was out of content, this is probably a good one.
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