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#1 |
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8
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Hi, hey, hello
What's up?
I'm a 21 year old mud developer writing my own codebase and making a game in it. I like Dr. Pepper, hot pizza, anime, my former mud home lusternia, and hentai, all in excess. I'm not a particularly talented programmer but have forced myself to become proficient in lua. ..That's really about it. More information about my mud will follow when it's out of open alpha, but if you're brave and don't mind the open mess, you can connect to mobiuseor.com on port 23. EDIT: windows telnet should work now. Didn't realize I'd have to do my own input buffering. Last edited by meae : 08-05-2013 at 03:28 AM. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Name: Joanna
Location: Indiana
Home MUD: End of Time
Posts: 40
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Hey howdy hi, nice to see your intro! Good luck on your base, sounds like you're at least having fun with it!
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#3 | |
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,393
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
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#4 |
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
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#5 |
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Hi there,
I tried to check out your mud. I was able to connect and saw the opening screen but the text appeared garbled (I'm using the Windows built in telnet client) Anyway, I just thought you should know ![]() Drax |
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#6 |
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Aha, sorry about that. I've actually been trying to make windows telnet play nice with it, but haven't had any luck yet.
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#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Name: Joanna
Location: Indiana
Home MUD: End of Time
Posts: 40
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
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#8 |
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
A bit of an update: I've decided after much deliberation to make Mobius into a graphical mmo instead of a mud.
Given that this probably isn't the right place for it anymore.. it was nice meeting you all, and goodbye! |
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#9 |
Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
From a server-development perspective they're pretty much the same thing, the main difference is that you'll need a graphical client as well.
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#10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Home MUD: bedlam.mudportal.com:9000
Home MUD: www.mudportal.com
Posts: 292
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
Recently, I embarked on a project to help MUD servers develop better web UI's easier. This includes graphical interfaces. If your goal is a web-based game, take a look at The MUD Portal. You can learn more about it here and here . |
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#11 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,303
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
* Scale. Large numbers of players compared to the tiny populations of MUDs make a huge difference in how you might engineer the server-side component, including sharding, enabling cross-shard interaction, and so on. MUDs don't have to deal with this because they don't target scaled up player populations (though some of us would love to have this problem!). The need to prepare for scale changes how one approaches a large range of server-side issues. * Web-based or thin client with predictive streaming content to facilitate an open world with minimal downloads or waiting while running around the world. This is a very tricky issue that text MUD servers don't have to deal with. * When you're running around in a client-server model in a 3d world, for instance, you typically have to have the client and server working pretty closely together to prevent 'skipping' around or jittery movement. Movement prediction is important, and something that our team spent a lot of time getting to feel right. Another issue that just doesn't come up in MUDs. So while it is technically true that there doesn't need to be a big difference, in practice on the commercial side, there is a big difference, which I saw directly when tasking the same guy that had built the Iron Realms 'Rapture' server engine with architecting the MMO server engine for us, and despite having half a decade of extra experience by the time he did the latter, it took him far longer, and he spent far more time beating his head against his monitor (and he wasn't doing it alone in that case, whereas he did it alone in the case of Rapture). As with everything, until you do it, you don't know what you don't know. |
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#12 |
Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
For those who are interested in the subject, there's actually a very good article by Raph Koster (who has a lot of experience with both MUDs and MMORPGs) entitled "Are MUDs and MMORPGs the same thing?"
"This always comes up, and I often seem to be on the opposite side of the argument from many players. I’ve usually found that those who have worked on the implementation side of both tend to feel that they are the same thing, but that thsoe who haven’t see them as somehow categorically different. So here’s my stab at explaining why I think both are really the same thing; in many ways, there are far larger differences between certain kinds of text muds than there are between graphical and text-based games." Click here to read the rest of the article. |
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#13 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,303
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
Yep, they are the same thing, but so is a bicycle and a Tesla - they're both forms of transportation. Building the two are vastly different propositions. |
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#14 | ||
Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
I prefer the analogy from the MUSHclient forums:
Quote:
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#15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Home MUD: bedlam.mudportal.com:9000
Home MUD: www.mudportal.com
Posts: 292
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
While neither analogy is perfect, the horse and carriage one feels a lot closer. Why? Because I can build a GUI to a MUD server by modifying less than 50% of the code, and adding some on top. The end user experience will be vastly different, yet my server would just be pushing more math. The challenges you mentioned are not indicative of any anatomical differences. If you want to display player locations in any game, you'd be forced to overcome such issues.
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#16 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 40
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
![]() The server could implement its protocol in a totally unconventional manner. It could end up utilizing different transport technologies, like udp, or streaming media to clients. Who knows? You mean the same as in, they both run on computers and communicate somehow over a network? ![]() There is nothing in "graphical mmo" that implies how it will be implemented. |
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#17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Home MUD: bedlam.mudportal.com:9000
Home MUD: www.mudportal.com
Posts: 292
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
The assumptions are all on your part, and the biggest one is that implementation has anything to do with the genre of a game. This is professedly untrue. Simple example: Two games both use UDP to stream location data to their clients, use the exact same media streaming technology for audio and in-game video, are both written in the same script on top of the same middleware, use the same database. One is Mario Cart multiplayer mode for Nintendo Wii, the other, let's say, Tera Rising. |
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#18 | |
Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
As Raph Koster said in the link I posted earlier, "in many ways, there are far larger differences between certain kinds of text muds than there are between graphical and text-based games" |
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#19 | |||
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 40
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
So then you admit to assuming the game will have similar logic, which is a far more flagrant assumption. Even the number of ways to communicate over a network (with standardized network protocols) is limited compared to the number of ways to configure software logic and game mechanics. Because both systems use databases or (might) require some level of persistence does not automatically establish the overall solutions with be even vaguely similar. Your examples are insubstantial. Quote:
I think, Mr. Koster is speaking in a very abstract sense. In practice however, how a protocol is implemented can affect both client and server operation significantly. I think there are enough examples to safely conclude, this is a fact. [Hint: take a peek at a few RFCs] An example (inspired by one of Mr. Koster's comments) might be the difference between, whether I chose to implement a turn-based MMO with an HTTP server (without using websockets, AJAX, etc), or based it on (some vanilla derivation of) DikuMUD. Do they both manage and provide some representation of some abstract simulation? Probably. Do they both offer some level of persistence? Possibly. Is an HTTP server, which is designed to serve requests, the same as a TELNET interface designed for bidirectional "text-oriented" communication? Only if you decide to abstract everything into "datastreams" (with little regard for time), which Mr. Koster appears to have done, and conclude that only the clients representation of that data changes significantly. Quote:
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#20 | |
Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
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Re: Hi, hey, hello
Quote:
It can, although as I said it's a relatively small part of the MUD, the sort of thing that a well-designed server could change at a later date if it wished. [Hint: take a peek at my MUD protocol handler snippet]. However the point is that you have to factor network protocols into your design regardless of whether you're developing a MUD or an MMORPG, and two games might take the same (or different) approaches regardless of whether they're both MUDs, MMORPGs, or one of each. You can't just say "this protocol is for MUDs, and that protocol is for MMORPGs". |
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