[Jardek]

Here's a little example of what happens if, for instance, you're playing a low level character and you happen to find some high level equipment:

[code] Originally made of a fine barre gray granite, it seems likely that only
that fact has allowed it to stand against the decaying swamp with only a few
stains on its surface. The apparently thick stone is set into the ground
masterfully disallowing entry to the slippery green algae that permeates the
area outside the walls. Loud drips and splashes echo and reverberate all
around giving the distinct impression that despite the receding water there
is more at work to keep these halls dry.
Obvious exits; e s w
The severed finger of a dwarven acolyte is here.
The severed hand of a dwarven acolyte is here.
( 7) A scrumptious looking steak is here.
A bulky creature with red hued skin stands in defense of the shrine.
A midnight-blue atyrros soars in from the south.
the finger of a dwarven acolyte decomposes.
the hand of a dwarven acolyte decomposes.
Your pulse slows to normal.
A sandy-winged male sprite soars in from the south.
A sandy-winged male sprite looks at you.
A sandy-winged male sprite is much more powerful than you.
You are carrying;
47 copper coins
52 silver coins
241 gold coins
2 platinum coins
2 obsidian coins
a barrel of water
a large deep purple knapsack (brand new)
A sandy-winged male sprite soars south.
You put 47 copper coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You put 52 silver coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You put 241 gold coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You put 2 platinum coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You put 2 obsidian coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You are carrying;
a barrel of water
a large deep purple knapsack (brand new)
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Got a sec?'
You say 'Sure.'
Someone has transferred you.
This is a very quiet room, a good place in which to get things done.
Obvious exits;
This is a very quiet room, a good place in which to get things done.
Obvious exits;
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Bit surprised at what you're wearing, coin, etc'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Can you explain for me?'
You say 'You shouldn't be with the amount of hoarding various cabals do.'
You say 'Dig around cabal headquarters long enough and you come up with good stuff.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Which cabal? Not sure what you mean.'
You are using;
<worn on finger> a wolf's head signet ring (brand new)
<worn around neck> a dark amulet set with a fiery sword (brand new)
<worn on body> a suit of dull black plate (brand new)
<worn on head> a dull black sallet (brand new)
<worn on legs> a pair of glistening hinged leg greaves (brand new)
<worn on feet> a pair of glistening sabatons (brand new)
<worn on hands> a pair of glistening hourglass gauntlets (brand new)
<worn on arms> a pair of glistening rerebraces (brand new)
<worn about body> a wolf's head cloak (awful)
<worn about waist> a steel fauld (brand new)
<worn around wrist> an iron bracer (brand new)
<both hands> a barbed scythe (brand new)
You say 'In my instance, the hammer cabal. I used the 'dig' command in the area around their HQ, and came up with the scythe, the plate, the sallet, and the amulet.'
You say 'As well as a healthy amount of money.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Do you have any alts?'
You say 'I kept it because I dropped it on... Yes, I do.'
You say 'Because I dropped it on the beach.'
You say 'Before I quit out, that is.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Could you name your alts for me?'
You say 'Ragnor, and Ulnar.'
You say 'I'll probably drop them for this character, though.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Quit and relog for me, please.'
You say 'Sure.'
You are using;
<worn on finger> a wolf's head signet ring (brand new)
<worn around neck> a dark amulet set with a fiery sword (brand new)
<worn on body> a suit of dull black plate (brand new)





(I remove all the higher level things that will be 'stolen by thieves' on logout, and quit out. This is removed by the quit clear-screen)
































































%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%| Welcome to Shattered Kingdoms |%
%| |%
%| - Shattered Kingdoms is a mud where role-playing is emphasized. |%
%| Pkilling is allowed based on RP. Multiplaying is forbidden. |%
%| - All players are required to read and understand HELP RULES and |%
%| all entries listed under 'See Also' at the bottom of them. |%
%| - New players should start by reading HELP NEWBIE and by reading all |%
%| of the newbie boards in the starting schools. |%
%| - Each character must have an adjective and detailed description by |%
%| the time they are Novice status. Refer to HELP DESCRIPTION. |%
%| - Characters with more than 30 days of inactivity may be deleted |%
%| without notice. Storage characters will be castrated. |%
%| - Check the NEWS LIST each time you log in to watch for changes. |%
%| |%
%| - The Shattered Kingdoms Forums are also available on our website; |%
%| |%
%| - Please keep in mind that this game may contain content not |%
%| suitable for children. |%
%| MOTD Updated; 26 Sept 2004 |%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Welcome to Shattered Kingdoms.
This is a very quiet room, a good place in which to get things done.
Obvious exits;
You say '...'
You say 'Um'
You are using;
<worn on finger> a wolf's head signet ring (brand new)
<worn about body> a wolf's head cloak (awful)
<worn about waist> a steel fauld (brand new)
<worn around wrist> an iron bracer (brand new)
You ask 'Why'd you yank the stuff?'
(the immortal involved had picked up everything from the ground)
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Not quite sure you understood me.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; But apparently thieves found the equipment in this room.'
You say 'Oh my god.'
You say 'Yay, now I'm unarmed with none of the stuff I had.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; You're young - plenty of opportunities for exploring and finding new stuff.'
You ask 'Is this part of the new 'heaven forbid anybody should find any gear' policy?'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Did I stop you finding it?'
You say 'After the fact, yes.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Did I stop you wearing it after you found it?'
You say 'I now have no weapons and no armor.'
You say 'Oh wait, no, I have a steel fauld.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Did you avoid the code that is meant to return it to the game for players who are more appropriate?'

You say 'I wouldn't put it quite like that myself. I merely left it in the game. There are plenty of risks involved in You say 'For example, someone else finding it, a crash, whatever else.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Am I rather suspicious that a character who should have no knowledge of the game knew the location of Hammer's HQ and that equipment is usually buried outside it? Especially given you have an alt in the Hammer?'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; You haven't lost anything permanent - you haven't even lost experience.'
You say 'And suspicion is enough to make me spend another several hours that'll need to go into re-equipping.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; I suggest you learn from this.'
You ask 'Learn what?'
You ask 'Never pick up good items?'
You ask 'Never have alts?'
You say 'There's nothing I can do about this, but I want you to know that I think it sucks.'
You say 'Oh, great.'
You say 'I just lost my pet from logging out, too.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Imagine how many other players think you sucked for cheating by not quitting with the equipment you wouldn't normally be able to keep.'
You say 'That isn't cheating, dude.'
You ask 'People drop things and pick them up later all the time. Are you going to go around junking all items lying on the ground?'
The ground shifts violently.

Someone has transferred you.
The atmosphere is thick and close, pregnant with the musk of spilt
ale, wood smoke and cooked food, heavy with the noise of boisterous
conversation, song and laughter. Sawdust is spread liberally over the
worn slate flagstones of the floor, upon which heavy wooden tables and
benching press together, crowded with patrons that compete for the
attentions of the serving wenches that move between them juggling
platters of steaming food and flagons of ale. A fire crackles in the
hearth set beneath a wide stone chimney brest in the north wall. An open
wooden staircase in the south climbs up to the rooms above.
Obvious exits; e(closed) w(closed) u ne(closed)
A sign by the door reads "Keep yer Horses OUT!".
A cork notice board hangs on the east wall.
A hand-pump is here to dispense water.
A delicate female sprite is flying here.
A grim-faced male human is standing here with a rigid posture.
A silver-haired male elf is resting here.
A female griffon is resting here.
A dashing male human is resting here.
A diaphanous female elf is resting here.
A serving wench moves deftly through the taproom serving drinks.
A small boy works here collecting glasses and clearing the tables.
A thuggish-looking giant glowers here, watching the customers for trouble.
A brutish-looking man stands impassively at the door watching the crowd.
A dashing male human says 'Wanted to know if I could get that rapeir.'
A diaphanous female elf looks at you.
A delicate female sprite looks at you.
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Have a nice day.'
A dashing male human says 'Err rapier.'
A diaphanous female elf smiles at you.
A silver-haired male elf stops resting.
A diaphanous female elf says to you 'Hello.'
A silver-haired male elf starts to concentrate.
A dashing male human looks at Captain Stern Waish.
A silver-haired male elf utters the words, 'oculoinfra kadagru'.
pray (OOC) I didn't want to get dropped here.
You pray to the gods for help.
The door to the inn is closed.
You open the door to the inn.
You walk west.
You are in the cobbled courtyard of the Hart and Rose. A high brick wall
separates the yard from the main roads to the east and south. Set into
the wall is a tall, wrought iron gate that opens out onto the Cross to
the southwest. Verdant green ivy, tangled with the sweet, golden blooms
of honeysuckle and rambling red Taslamaran rose clamber over the dark
timbers and whitewashed wattle and daub fascia of the Inn that looms in
from the east side of the courtyard. An oak door leads into the taproom,
noise and light spilling out into the yard occasionally as somebody
comes or goes. Shadows move behind the expensive, opaque glazing of the
ground-floor windows, indicative of the inn's heavy trade.
It's snowing lightly, freezing, and very windy.
Obvious exits; e ne sw
A noble, white horse is resting here.
A grey horse stands here, tail flicking in a slow, steady rhythm.
You close the door to the inn.
You walk northeast.
The air is thick with the musky smell of horses, the floor is strewn
with fresh straw. The back of this wooden building is split into
separate stalls, each of a size to hold a single horse comfortably. A
ladder leads up into the hay loft above.
Obvious exits; u sw
A stable-boy is here mucking out the stalls.
You walk up.
You are on a wooden platform above the stables. The space is close and
private, thick with dust and the heady scent of the hay bales that are
stacked up here in orderly piles. A ladder leads back down to the stable
floor below.
Obvious exits; d
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; I don't recall asking you.'[/quote]

So, let's recap. Four out of a possible seventeen items worn by my character have been found lying around abandoned by a player group. I pick them up and wear them (wouldn't anybody?) An imm takes offense, strips my character naked, and then in an "RP" mud dumps my character (still naked after an ooc situation) into the middle of the busiest room in the mud (a room that is several RL hours journey from where I was picked up, all based on some suspicion. Fantastic.

I later found out that the immortal involved then gave all the equipment he took from me to the high follower of his religion in character (despite the obvious ooc nature of our conversation), warning him about my character, all because of some ooc chip on his shoulder.

I'm afraid I have to suggest to people trying to find a new mud that they should keep looking if their eyes happen to fall on Shattered Kingdoms.

[prof1515]

Well, let me see if I can break down both sides.

OK, now that we've established their basic format, let's look at the example.

Stop!  I'm confused here.  How is it that I know it's the severed finger of a dwarven acolyte?  I guess from the size, I could assume it's former owner was a dwarf.  But it could have been a child.  But the acolyte part?  Do all acolytes (or just the dwarven ones) have a tattoo on each finger?

OK, those interesting points aside, let us continue....

D-amn! A barrel of water?  You must be both strong and thirsty.  I know I have to **** like a racehorse after drinking half a case of Barq's Root Beer in a single sitting (damned good stuff that Barq's) .  *shrug*  Back on topic....

I'm confused again.  You decided to dig around a building?  You dropped stuff on the beach?  What an *interesting* life you lead.

And why would someone bury stuff outside a building instead of hiding it inside?  Lost their key?  Claustrophobia?  Cross-bred with a gopher?

Man, those thieves were fast.  Poor guy only went to the bathroom.  Of course, after drinking an entire barrel of water, he really had to go for a while....

Would those be players who dig holes and hide stuff there instead of dropping it on the beach?

I'm incredibly suspicious of people who bury stuff outside their HQ.  Wouldn't it make more sense to lock it inside?

emote looks at the HQ.
emote notices the big piles of fresh dirt outside the HQ.

I'd say he gained one.

Never kennel your pet at Dr. Kevorkian's Pet Cemetary & Kennel.

Why couldn't he keep it?  Cause he didn't dig a hole?

Well, seems to me that the problem isn't only the staff member, though they were a bit rude there at the end.  The problem seems to be with this curious world where people dig holes outside their HQ instead of placing it inside and other people with incredibly large bladders walk around lugging barrels of water with them.  It could stand to have some significant modifications made to both code and policy which would avoid the unfortunate issues of this particular case.

1.  No "alts".
2.  How about equipment, clothes, what-have-you, saving on the character who quits?
3.  Give Hammer a key so they can get inside their HQ instead of digging holes and burying stuff outside.
4.  Somebody find that poor dwarven acolyte and give him a hand.
5.  Hire more law enforcement.  If a poor guy can have the clothes off his back stolen while he uses the bathroom, it's not a good neighborhood.
6.  Stay in the shade.  If you have to carry around a barrel of water to avoid dehydration, that's no environment to be in.  Get inside in the AC.
7.  Spay and neuter your pets so they won't have too many offspring that'll need be put to sleep when you log out.

These are only a few small reasons I won't play near-stock MUDs or play H&S again.  Honestly, what'd you expect?

Take care,

Jason

[Realedazed]

Ok, I may have read it wrong. But I think I gathered two things:

*You have a high level alt in the Hammer clan. Since you have a character in that clan, you knew that for some reason the players bury their high level equipment in their backyard.

*Instead of the equipment "getting stolen" when you logged off, you dropped the equipment, using that to get over on the code that prevents lowbies from having top level equipment.

Well, I don't really agree with how the Immortal handled it, it couldn't been a bit nicer. But, then I'm a overly nice person. Also, if you were trying to cheat the code, the Imm had a reason for saying something to you.

Ok, that raises this question. Why was that equipment buried instead of being in the clan hall in a chest or something? Do players normally bury their equipment so that "theives" won't get to them while they are offline?

Or am I completely off?

[GuruPlayer]

You cheated, you whiny bonehead - you used IC info that your alt character knew, & obtained high-lvl eq for your lowbie alt. I'm amazed at the mercy of the IMM who just took the eq as punishment.  Like he said, you didn't lose any exp. You should have had all your characters deleted, & you should have been banned from the MUD!!

I just love cheaters tellin' the world how they were wronged by the IMMs & stay away from the MUD.  It looks like this MUD has an alert & merciful IMM staff, & is just the kind of MUD honest players should be looking for.

[WarHound]

While the Imm could have been a little less less snippy at the end, I'll agree that he was pretty on track by punishing you. Alternate characters are a privelege I dislike intensely, and I'm glad Armageddon has the account system to eliminate this.

But, apparantly Shattered Kingdoms graciously allows you other chars, expecting you to be mature enough to maintain character seperation in an RP-enforced environment. You disappointed them there, and they punished you for it. Meh.

[Jardek]

1) Alts are allowable in shattered kingdoms, no point in bitching to me about that.
2) All cabals are wary of hiding their things in their HQs, because other cabals frequently raid them in some glorified CTF.
3) I did have a character in the Hammer cabal. That had nothing to do with pot luck in happening across gear there. Yes, I know to search near cabals. So does every experienced player. I outright deny any claims of cheating.

[Valg]

This sounds like an issue between you and the staff of Shattered Kingdoms. I'm not sure why you think it's an issue the larger community would care about, or what you hope to accomplish here. If you're hoping to slander their name, we've all read enough threads of "they did X to me, and now I'm mad!" (legitimate or not) to know that there are several sides to every story, and that setting up court here isn't productive.

If you don't like the way they run their game, you can always vote with your feet.

[GuruPlayer]

What about using IC info known to your high lvl character to help your lowbie alt didn't you understand?? That's cheating, & using the sad whine - everbody knows it -is no excuse.  You got caught cheating, & the IMM was merciful in his punishment.  You're not going to get any sympathy here, so go whine somewhere else cheater!

[The_Disciple]

To be fair, what kind of information may be carried over from one character to another is a cultural thing which varies from MUD to MUD.

I suggest to you that on this one, the retention of this particular kind of knowledge is not especially taboo.

[Jardek]

[GuruPlayer]

Direct quote from Shattered Kingdoms' help file "Help Rules" under the sub-section #2 No Multi-playing: "Any player is allowed to have multiple charaters, but no transfers of equipment, money, or INFORMATION (my caps) between them are allowed.  Violations will result in deletion for all involved characters."

You sir are a cheater, & were treated with kid gloves when their IMM just took the equipment away instead of deleting both of your characters.  My "chip" is I hate cheaters who post flames against IMMs who catch them cheating, & whine because they were caught.

Now I haven't played Shattered Kingdoms before I logged on to read their rules, so I don't know the game, but I do know how to play on MUDs honestly, & I know cheating when I see it.

[The_Disciple]

I'm going to bust on both of you.

Guru first: Yes, the rules do say that, but in practice, this game isn't played that way. It's considered okay to carry at the very least your game mechanics / navigation type knowledge from one character to another. Certainly everyone not a first-time newbie plays SK this way, including any and all of the staff that plays mortal characters.

I don't in the least have a problem with this, but reading the rules helpfiles on a mud you haven't played rarely tells the whole story, including cultural differences. Even the players of two very similar muds often have radically different ideas of what good/bad roleplay is, for example.

Jardek next: While this game has definitely seen a decline in players, it's a big stretch to say there were ever 100 concurrent. Honestly, you can find worse things to pick on if you really want to than this bust.

[Rathik]

Isn't Shattered Realms a completely different game from Shattered Kingdoms?

Sounds like that is illegal too. Jardek, I don't see where you are right here.

[GuruPlayer]

Sorry, my error, have have edited my earlier post to reflect that help file was from Shattered Kingdoms.

[Valg]

You've made your point. Let's not pursue it further and fan a flamewar, then.

If you think a staff member on a game was out of line, take it up with the administration of that game. But don't make muckraking threads on this forum-- it's not of general interest to the community, and not the purpose of the Advertising For Players forum.

[Davairus]

I'd have made you watch me delete your clan character and then slay your new guy and eat his corpse, shortly after introducing myself saying that. AR take cabals very seriously, we dont even let people make alts in other cabals. Can't see why you're giving these guys a hard time when they went so easy on you.

[Davairus]

To be on the safe side, you should have made sure you DON'T have a character in their clan (not even an inactive one) before you began poaching their eq for your new character that's nothing to do with the clan. Obviously, you don't think its a big deal, but the imms did, and probably everyone else in that clan would too. MUDs are communities not just hack n' slash collect-eq-kill games like d2.

[The_Disciple]

Hey now, let's not poach this perfectly good don't-play-SK flamethread and turn it into a don't-play-AR flamethread.

Seriously, y'all are assuming things work similar in this game to the game you play, and that's about on the level of assuming there's an extra point conversion in tennis.

[GuruPlayer]

So, what is your relationship to this MUD? Are you a player, or an IMM?  Because my read of the IMM's action is that what was done was cheating, & the player was punished for it.  So your claim that the game isn't played that way is obviously incorrect from the IMM's standpoint, & even in the game of tennis, if the line judge says it's out, it's out, even if the player says it's in.

[Starling]

I play Shattered Kingdoms.

The rules are pretty clear. But even if no multiplaying was involved, the character was using a "workaround" to cheat the code that is intended to keep newbie-level characters from hoarding high level equipment. SK allows players to use whatever it is they pick up, be it newbie-level equipment or grandmaster level equipment... unlike some other muds, where you can't even pick up something that is "too powerful" for you. However, the mud is coded so that when you log out, there is a chance that equipment that is higher-level than your character will vanish (the IC explanation is that thieves set upon you in the night) and reappear in its original location. I think the intent is twofold: to protect newbies from being killed for any high-level equipment they find (there are rules protecting newbies as well), and to ensure that the higher level equipment sooner or later is available to the higher level characters on the game.

Burying or dropping equipment to find later in order to get around this is an OOC action, and not one that a character would likely IC do. I think most players on SK would regard that as cheating because it is an abuse of code, intended to give an advantage to one's character that the game clearly does not intend.

All things considered, if it had been me, I would be thanking my lucky stars my character hadn't been deleted for abusing code. The other muds I've played wouldn't have been so tolerant.

Just my own opinion on it.