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Old 09-11-2010, 10:40 PM   #81
Jazuela
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

The only Armageddon style mud I've ever heard of is Armageddon. And even that isn't truly an Armageddon-style mud, since the original Armageddon was a hack-n-slash, which converted itself into an RPI after the fact. However, the codebase of Armageddon does pattern itself after Diku and in fact has sprung off from diku, with many enhancements. I don't believe Shadows of Isildur uses the same codebase, or the same crafting system, SoI has an entire OOC AREA of the game where Armageddon does not. In Harshlands, I believe it is acceptable to treat NPCs walking around in the street as "mobs" whereas in both SoI and Armageddon this is not acceptable.

So what game is like Armageddon, that there would be Armageddon-style games, of the plural variety?
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:55 PM   #82
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I think you know what I meant, as does everyone else. I am not a pro or anti-RPI zealot, so there's no need to get aggressive or take offense.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:07 AM   #83
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

If memory serves, I think we started using the ARM style games annotation because ARM was the first of that genre that used the styles most of the others ended up following. Hence the usage of an ARM MUD vs. an RPI.

I'd hate this thread to turn into another RPI argument session, though I think it already has.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:09 AM   #84
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Not at all, I understood exactly what you meant and took no offense. And yes, I've seen some of what you describe.
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Old 09-12-2010, 05:39 AM   #85
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I recommended Shadows of Isildur to an individual new to MUDing no more than 48 hours ago.

I later recommended he check Armageddon MUD, Accursed Lands (non-RPI), and Iron Realms (which I actually actively boycott) because I believe he may find them fun.

I do recognize that not everyone agrees with my definition of fun; however, I stand by my opinions voiced during the "are chat channels necessary" discussion because I have yet to be handed the research I requested.

Your sly attempt of going, "Teehee, I'm better than the are!" just failed. Good try, though.


Hehehe. I got a chuckle out of this simply because someone else said almost this very thing to me about NWA's postings this morning in an off-topic discussion.


Some people don't need to proverbially hear the sound of their own voice to know they are contributing to the community as a whole.


It's probably because it's 2am, but I didn't quite understand this statement.

Due to my work with the RPMud Network, I have come to accept the definition of "RPI" to mean a game that meets certain qualifiers: as such, I am going to continue promoting that definition. That definition does, in fact, include Armageddon-Styed MUDs. (I would like to a list of qualifiers, but I'm posting against the clock! -- Laptop battery is dying fast.)


The term as it is most popularly pushed does not refer to the codebase.

It actually refers to a set of criterion that MUDs must meet. What that criteria IS precisely is what is most often debated, because many MUDs "almost" make the list and then debate the points on which they fall short. The term suffers mostly because it became synonymous with "success", when it actually has nothing to do with that.

An example of criteria includes a total lack of OOC channels (thus the channel debate); pure/mandator permadeath; involved character applications; etc...

And again, I will admit that I personally will continue to push that set of criteria, as there is no sense in trying to dilute it or change and make MUD categorization more "nebulous" or confusing as it already is. There are other ways to describe other types of games (such as RPE, or the token recently introduced by Proff "RPO" to describe RP MUDs that have been heavily modified to be unique but have a different feature set than the RPIs).


EDITED -- I managed to catch up on this thread with some time to spare, so I went and grabbed the current list of features which would be required for any game to be categorized as an "RPI" on the RPMud Network. (And yes, since this site is outside of that network, no one is required to follow them or even acknowledge them here... but when I say "RPI", this is what I mean.)

Last edited by Parhelion : 09-12-2010 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:30 AM   #86
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Couple of things Parhelion.

1st, you should probably post when you are awake. Your posts are long and many times nonsensicle, especially when you are half awake.

2nd, Posting that you recommended a few Muds from RPI Network isn't what I'm talking about. My meaning was that all of the games I have recommended that are RPIs have never recipricated over the years. There was no "tee hee" involved. Grow up a little, kay.

You didn't understand this statement from Threshold because you likely didn't read the massively huge threads on this very topic. As a member of the RPMUD Network Operating Committee you should familiarize yourself with these threads as every thing you said below this statement has been stated many many times and argued many many times and few of us want to see the argument or argue with you again about it.

I could be wrong, their may be those that do wish to bring up this tired subject again, but I'm not one of them. If you need the thread links for your perusal, here they are:

1. This thread was a beginning argument on the term RPI and went haywire:


2. This thread was an attempt to discuss the term:


3. This thread was a spoof on the entire topic:


Enjoy the reading it will make you laugh, cry, and hurl.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:21 PM   #87
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Oh my, was that an attempt at an insult?

I prefer making a long post that addresses quotes in the order that they appeared in the thread, as opposed to making numerous singleton replies like SOMEBODY else in this thread, which accomplishes nothing except boosting post count.

Sorry, there was a "tee hee" involved, but you obviously didn't get the sarcasm.

To begin with, I did not recommend MUDs to a player because they are from the RPMud Network. If you had payed attention to my post at all, you will have noticed I mentioned some games for which there are no plans (to my knowledge) to include in RPMud's listings. Furthermore, I made a point to explain that I actually detested one group of games (IRE's) and STILL recommended it because your original post was worded in such a way as to insinuate that you take the high road and we (Prof and myself) do not. This is an attempt at staining our characters without any basis.

I've been encouraged to be blunt, so I shall, since this parade goes on across several threads. To all the innocent readers out there, I'm going to apologize ahead of time. Please excuse the teeth.

Newworlds, you make an active attempt to defame RPIs every opportunity you get through what you probably consider are clever methods. Furthermore, anytime the RPMud Network comes up, you -generally- have something rather acidic to say, and you word your posts in such a way as to insinuate that all members of the RPMud Network committee all act and think the same way. You clap your hands with "Way to go!"s when directly addressing someone, but you're still virtually sneering while you do it.

You have some weird issue with Prof. I get it. He's an RPI nerd, and you're butt-hurt that he tends to engage you in ways that you don't like. Although I have been a long-time member of this community for several years, my recent involvement with RPMud Network, and my subsequent promotion of it, has led you to spew drivel about my bias activities at least twice now -- even though my posting activity has not been particularly high the past, and my broader social network is mostly made up of developers of H&S and RPE games. Not that you'd know, of course. Your opinion on the entire group is based on the activities of Prof and myself, as we are prolific posters and we both tend to personally favor RPIs -- but if you actually stopped and bothered to look into the committee, you'll find most of its members don't even LIKE RPIs. As a whole, we are trying to represent all roleplaying games, including RPE games, and MUSHs, MUCKs, and other MU*s.

While I understand that things like this are not immediately clear because we do not yet have an active internet presence, I'm quite honestly getting tired of you trying to pop holes in a legitimate attempt at community building -- an attempt that YOU could actually benefit from -- just because you don't like Prof.


No. I did not understand the statement from Threshold because it didn't make grammatical sense to me. I am well aware of the RPI Debates and their contents -- if you expect me to follow every little tidbit sewn by yourself and Threshold, you're mistaken. He's a good admin, but I've got better things to do with my time than hang onto his -- or your -- every word on every thread ever.


Originally Posted by Threshold
"But you certainly can't also lay claim to the phrase "roleplay intensive" for Armageddon Style MUDs."

Since you and he both seem to be confused on you use MUD terms, I'll help you out:
Acronym: R P I
Meaning: RolePlaying Intensive
Thread Title:"Veterans of Roleplaying Intensive MUDs"

So yes. When the acronym is accepted to mean a certain thing, it STILL means that certain thing even when you spell it out.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:38 PM   #88
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

As many threads dealing with RPIs have gone in the past, so has this one. I'll be bowing out now, because I don't believe that this thread will return to being on-topic, and because I don't have the patience for another admin flame war.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:05 PM   #89
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I think I will join you in your exit. I thought to respond with a long rebuttle but it is clear to me that no reasonable discussion on this topic can be had.

I will make one comment though. Proph1515 and DonathinFrye, the previous poster insinuated that I was trying to defame RPI's and I have something against you personally. This thread and my comments here were not meant in any way to defame, insult, or demean you or your games in any fashion.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:16 PM   #90
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I like pudding on my RPIs. Chocolate. With sprinkles.
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:46 PM   #91
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I have to say it again:

Not so fast, my friend!

Newworlds speaks for himself, and himself alone. He doesn't speak for me, we aren't a "team", and we don't even agree on a lot of things related to this issue. If you want to debate a point I have made, I'm happy to read what you have to say and possibly be educated or have my mind changed. I simply ask that you think of me as my own person with my own views, not part of a cabal.


Aw shucks. *blush* Thank you.

I know what the terms mean. I also know that the RPI/ARM folks consider those acronyms to refer to a very specific, very rigid set of game features. But trying to lay claim to the spelled out words themselves strikes me as a bit delusional and excessive.

Out of respect for people to whom "RPI" has a very specific meaning, I do not call or an RPI. But if asked, I would definitely describe both games as roleplay intensive. I would not appreciate someone saying "you can't say your games are roleplay intensive, to use that phrase you have to have game features X, Y, and Z." Telling me I cannot use two basic words that do in fact accurately describe my games would be totally illogical and inappropriate in my view.

I should add that I would shy away from the phrase "roleplay intensive" anyway. Not because I agree that those 2 words used together require a certain set of features, but because I make games to bring happiness to people - not to score points in ancient, drawn out arguments that have unnecessarily divided our community.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:20 AM   #92
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Only if its vanilla RPI.

With crushed oreos.


And to Threshold, I want to apologize for dragging you into my last post; my primary objective was to address Newworlds and publicly call out some of his... what I shall call, "bull****"... that often gets spread around these forums in one way or another. In particular, the very end portion of my post was unnecessarily venomous.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:41 PM   #93
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Why don't you and Threshold just kiss and make up? Maybe you will make him blush again (gag). I held back from getting involved even when Delerak suddenly returned from the madhouse and Jazuela came out of the closet, but who needed them when we now have emo girl? New Worlds, don't listen to this babbling idiot. She didn't read the old threads at all or she wouldn't be spewing her own BS from the apple box. She is just angry that the roleplaymud network is a group of haters and want all to hate in kind. Next time you want to spew forth your ideas please utilize facts instead of RPI promotional dung.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:04 PM   #94
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

You're kidding, right?

Looking back at your posts, 80% of them are hating on Brody and Otherspace or other people. If you want to talk about facts, you should learn some. RPMud consists of a New Worlds player and a Threshold player as well. Both of those are not RPI muds. In fact, the admins of both of those games tend to take an opposing stance in game design to a lot of traditional RPI game mechanics and theories.

Seriously, New Worlds would be dumb to take your advice. It's never smart to not listen to anyone whose posts consists of calling someone an "babbling idiot","emo girl", and gagging because people decided to play nice instead of flaming the snot out of each other. Sorry, you don't run a successful mud by being dumb.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:08 PM   #95
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Why would I be kidding? Everytime these people begin flinging their rpi crap, flame wars ensue. Why do you think that is? When you play nice with idiots you become an idiot. That is why I suggested to ignore emo girl. Which is good advice.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:27 PM   #96
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I could almost be convinced to agree with you except they didn't start this thread. I wouldn't go as far as to suggest New Worlds was setting out flame bait, but surely, the pattern has been established for long enough that we all knew where this thread would go.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:40 PM   #97
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Hey, I don't supposed you'd go into a little detail about what mechanics and theories those are? I'm rather curious.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:56 PM   #98
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Good luck to you on your game as well. I'll eventually give it a look when it's open but you won't know it's me. It'll probably be for the purpose of a review for RPMUD or something. :-D
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:21 AM   #99
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I actually didn't think this particular thread would start a flame war as it was originally about previous veteran gamers. But really, I wish this arguing would stop. It is childish and that is all I will say. I don't agree with Anjanis but I don't disagree either other than to say name calling isn't needed. Parhelion has their own agenda I'm guessing.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:49 AM   #100
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I've been very sporadic at looking in on this thread because it's meandered too much from the original topic. The original post was inquiring about the views of veterans of Role-Play Intensive MUDs. It wasn't about what constitutes "hard" fantasy. It wasn't about whether or not one likes OOC channels. It wasn't about any of that crap. The reason the thread began to have problems is because it diverged from the topic about which it was posted and people who weren't veterans of Role-Play Intensive MUDs decided to toss their views in. No offense to anyone but if you're not a veteran of RPIs, why reply to this thread?

Want to keep threads from turning into flame wars? Here's a simple bit of advice:



Saw what happened to them? That's what happens to too many threads when people don't take Gold Leader's advice.
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