Tavern of the Blue Hand

LikitaRenn · 05-10-2002, 09:03 PM

well, what if someone really IS seriously wondering about other people's socks? how can you judge "oh, that's not a serious discussion" and delete it, without knowing? i mean, the socks wasn't serious, but as an example, what if it was? who's to say?

-likita

Orion Elder · 05-10-2002, 09:06 PM

LikitaRenn · 05-10-2002, 09:13 PM

Shao_Long · 05-10-2002, 09:14 PM

where to buy one ? where to find ? which mob to kill,Orion ?? tell me !!

Quietude · 05-10-2002, 09:26 PM

My personal least-favorite threads (while I know many enjoyed them immensely) were the "Word Association" and "Story" threads, both of which took up two slots in the "most recent discussions" box -constantly- due to the frequency of updates. They no longer appear quite as often; I am relieved. I'd be more relieved if spam and meta-spam threads (ie, this one [yes, I am a hypocrite]) also didn't appear, though. I come here to read about MUDs. Nothing more, nothing less. While I don't object to other discussions being under way, I do object when the number of other threads proliferates to the point that not -one- MUD/RPing thread appears in the little box upon which I depend.

this space intentionally left blank

Maggie · 05-11-2002, 01:06 AM

Although I do post in the Word Association thread off and on, I agree for the most part. If I wanted to find friends, I'd go to a site made to get people together; if I wanted to discuss music, I'd go to a site about the type of music I enjoy; if I wanted to discuss the color of people's socks, I'd see a psychiatrist; and if I wanted to witness a group of people insulting each other, I'd go to the playground at the elementary school down the street.

This place looked really interesting at first, but it seems that most of the people who had useful information to share have either stopped posting it to flame others or have just stopped posting. I have no problem with people having a bit of fun, but not to the point that normal discussions no longer exist.

Most of the forums I've used and worked for, have banned all flaming, profanity and off topic posts; I think Orion is trying hard to compromise, and should be given credit for that.

Quicksilver · 05-11-2002, 01:40 AM

There is another compromise which might not make everyone happy, but would probably satisfy both the purists and the completists.

People have complained that the socks thread (and the like) is more appropriate for the Introduce yourself Forum. Solution: transfer that thread to that forum.
Word Association and Storyline threads a bit too escessive for Tavern of the Blue Hand? Transfer them to the Storytelling Forum. Both fit the fictionalised setting of that forum.
The song categories, books, movies, etc. still fit the Tavern motif, as it generates content which is of interest to a sizable portion if only for guaging the demographics of mudder's tastes, in areas which relate to the mudding influences.

I don't think moving individual posts within a thread to the Spam or Flame threads would work in some cases. The point that context is highly necessary (even in spam) does have some weight. This doesn't mean the spam/flame posts can't be spun into their own unique threads, with a linkback to the original thread for reference.

I know I made a non-mud related reply to the Woo! thread about birthdays, but that thread is about a member of the mudding community, which could feasibly be placed in Blue Hand. (Unfortunately, they spam, flame and why me? thread also fit within this category, since the forums themselves have become a part of the mudding community. I don't have any suggestions for those situations, unless a forum about forums were created.

Just my opinion on the matter. Perversely, I agree that this thread is very relevant to the current forum. Hopefully some more posters will come up with some constructive suggestions. It never hurts giving the moderators a pool of ideas which they can sift through.

Molly · 05-11-2002, 04:33 AM

weiss · 05-11-2002, 04:55 AM

I would have to agree with Terloch and others... I would say this forum should only be for mud related stuff, certainly no socks threads, however at the same time, I don't see the harm in the word association threads. I think the lines need to be drawn in the sand so to speak, and a decision made by someone who can.

Weiss

Seth · 05-11-2002, 09:05 AM

All this fuss about one of my threadss. Come on people, it was a JOKE. I posted that thread because someone else was glad there wasn't a socks related thread yet, I didn't post it to **** off 90% of you people who are quite a bit too serious on these forums. Jesus...

I should start a carreer in advertising if anything I post makes such a fuss...

Kyandra · 05-11-2002, 09:52 AM

Isn't censoring a thread on censorship the ultimate form of the latter. Thank you for your kind words. At the risk of being banned from these forums (and if I am right at the moment I would say no serious loss) I would like to start a referendum for the resignation of the censor. (Maybe that should be the poll).

Maybe I need to repeat a little of what I said before, in my censored thread. Take serious mud discussions to the serious parts of the form. This one is for being silly and having fun and, I will add, should be run by someone who has not forgotten what fun is.

I see many of you young players who are so darned (I really wanted to use a stronger word here, read it in yourselves) serious about it all that you have forgotten that above all else (Unless you own evercrack and are making money at it) that a mud is a GAME that we are supposed to be playing for FUN and ENJOYMENT.

Take away the fun
Take away the goofyiness
Take away the laughter
Take away the community each (larger) mud has

What do you have left -- nothing working PLAYing.

Take away the fun, the goofyiness, the humor, the sense of community the silliness here has and what do you have left?

A group of mudders who will go elsewhere, leaving this place so much poorer for their loss. Because they are not the newbie inexperienced players. They are the ones who (while you may not always believe it) care.

ps -- thank you Molly

Sidmouth · 05-11-2002, 10:35 AM

As for me having no sense of humor: I certainly do, and my bookmarks contain a small selection of humorous websites. This is not one of them.

This website is for the discussion of muds. Sure, muds are a form of entertainment, but that has never stopped literary critics from hotly debating the merit of an author, or high life elites in New York from trashing this or that new broadway play. I think most people here are here because they wish to discuss the nitty gritty of muds. What makes a mud entertaining? How can I make mine more entertaining?

To take a comparison, Slashdot is filled with spammy posts, some of which are quite funny. Even if you do find links to a certain website (you know what I'm talking about), calls for slashdot blackouts and "why *BSD is dying" posts to be funny (and the latter 2 are very amusing to me), you probably do not read them, and any legitimate poster would almost certainly not speak up in their defense. This is noise run wild, and it is a -moderated- forum where you can avoid most spam by browsing at high mods. Topmudsites has no such system. The point is, I don't go to slashdot for funnies. If I wanted to laugh, I could go to seanbaby.com, forum3000.org, thespamletters, or any of a number of other sites.

Now, if it is the case that the majority of people on the boards do not find the signal to ratio noise of these boards to be annoying, then perhaps nothing should be done about it. However, if many people find that: a) the spam is annoying, and b) it damages the usefulness of the forums for appropriate discussion, then something -should- be done. It is my opinion that people have mixed views about a, but I believe we have a majority that will agree with b. Again, the very least that should be done is for the posts to be removed from the recent discussions, as this will greatly mitigate b.

-Sidmouth

[EDIT]: Decided I did not agree with myself about censorship. If anyone feels that Orion is being unfair, I think it is appropriate that they should bring it up. Just keep in mind that this is a private forum and Orion has been entrusted by Synozeer to censor if he sees fit. If people have an issue with Orion's management of threads, they should bring it up with him or Synozeer, but it's a little early to call for his resignation on the basis of a post or two that you felt was justified and he didn't.

[EDIT]: Reread Kyandra's original censorship post and find myself agreeing with my original statements (which I deleted). As the owner of this -private- forum, Synozeer is well within his rights to censor language and offensive humor if he sees fit. My clarification above is in the spirit that if you believe a moderator is truly abusing their powers, debate is welcome. However, I think Synozeer has made it clear that he objects to strong language on these boards, and so it is quite clear that Orion is acting appropriately to me.

If you wish the policy on strong language to be changed, then start a thread, but make it a little more constructive than "Orion should resign and only Nazis disallow dirty jokes".

Dionae · 05-11-2002, 11:10 AM

I agree that these forums do not need to be all serious discussions. I understand you guys want to have fun, but some things like the color of your socks, what your favorite fast food restaurant is, etc. I could care less about. I know it was just a joke, but some of us are just sick about the way these forums seem to be heading.

I do have a sense of humor. I enjoy reading things in Mud Humor and posting in the quotefile thread and all, but at least those things are semi-mud related. Really, when someone said why should Synozeer spare the bandwith for something that is totally unrelated to his site, I completely agree.

And I hate to see the Tavern of the Blue Hand become the forum for spammers and pointless, stupid posts. Some things, like the What Alignment are you? and What DnD Character are you? threads were interesting, and a nice way to learn more about people, while still having some relevance to muds and mudders' interests. Yet, with all the spam, it drowns out some of the more relevant posts.

I started a thread in Tavern of the Blue Hand about Retaining Players, which seemed to spark some serious discussion. I don't think it really fit anywhere else, as it wasn't an advanced mud concept, it didn't have to do with roleplaying, or building, or coding, or anything. But threads like that get lost in all the pointless threads, and some people don't even visit the Tavern of the Blue Hand because of all the mindless posts.

So, while you guys may enjoy the random silly posts and all, I think you should respect the majority of the people here's wishes. And if you really must post these kinds of threads, like someone said, there are plenty of other places where it would be more fitting.

Maggie · 05-11-2002, 02:26 PM

I just wanted to make a couple comments about this. First, I don't consider myself to be a young player; I am older than you are. I also think that you seem to have confused the forums with the games being discussed. The MUDs are meant for fun and enjoyment, but I was under the impression that this site was for sharing information and ideas aboiut them. When I want to play, I go to the game rather than doing it here.

There is nothing wrong with my sense of humor; I even find a lot of the spam funny. I just think that so much of it in a forum not meant for it is very disruptive and detracts from the purpose of the boards. Having worked as a monitor/moderator, I know that people tend to dislike anyone who restricts what they're able to write; but I also know that with nobody doing that, the forum is doomed to be nothing but a slow moving chat room.

LikitaRenn · 05-11-2002, 02:48 PM

well, i don't know if it's really necessary to say that i agree with kyandra, since what she said is basically what i've been saying all along, but i will anyways. i thought it sucked when no one really listened to me, and i think it sucks worse that no one's listening to her. i was new here and i didn't really have an influence, so why should anyone listen to me, right? but from what i've seen, kyandra seems to be someone who has a pretty valuable opinion, and she's not a "spammer" or anything like that, so you people should maybe let some of the stuff she says sink in. you guys keep saying that no one wants to deal with the forums after it becomes full of "useless" posts, but i think that a lot of people won't want to come if it becomes all serious and boring! at least leave ONE forum FUN! i mean, if you don't want to read about socks, you can NOT click the thread that says "what color are your socks?" am i the only one who thinks it's pretty obvious?

-likita

AngelaChristine · 05-11-2002, 06:44 PM

Fun for who?

Forums are supposed to be fun, but there are many thousands of forums out there so ideally everyone can find one that suits their intrests. A few "community" posts that have nothing to do with the main topic can be fun, but they shouldn't take over. When fun but off topic posts by a handfull of users start out-numbering on topic posts the group is on it's way down, I've seen this happen both with web forums and USENET groups. New readers are turned off because the group is mostly fluff and in jokes that they don't get, not the topic they came to the site to discuss.

I find discussions that have some depth to be fun, I like discussing the implications of things. I don't find reading fluffy chats between people I don't know to be fun, that sort of thing would be better served by IRC, ICQ or private email. Is there some exhibitionist thrill folks get by holding pointless private discussions in public? Shallow, off-topic discussions between just a few people (say 5 or 6) clutter the boards and make them LESS fun for most of the other readers. I've barely read these forums in the last few months because nearly every topic in the recent discussions box has nothing to do with mudding.

Taking the TotBH threads out of the recent discussions box would help. Another option would be for some savvy chatter to create a #topmudsites channel on an IRC server, creating a fun, informal place for members of the community to chat without disrupting ongoing mud related discussions here.

Angela Christine

KaVir · 05-12-2002, 08:00 AM

Take away the mud, and what do you have left? Discussions which don't belong here.

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I would not consider it any great loss. On the old forums it was always understood that the Tavern was for general discussions related to muds - this is, after all, Top Mud Sites. And everything was fine back then, without your "group of mudders". I'd be more than happy to go back to the way things were; I come here to discuss muds, not to participate in idle chatter.

My suggestion is that Synozeer changes the forum descriptions to state the obvious. Just as we have warnings that state "this coffee is hot" or notices on packets of salted peanuts which state "this product contains nuts", so Synozeer should place a notice stating that the discussion forums on Top Mud Sites are for discussing issues related to muds.

Andvari · 05-12-2002, 08:34 AM

Don't you see what they've done already? By making such a big stink and whining about 'censorship' and 'why aren't we allowed to do whatever we want' they've made the focus of the forum all about them, anyway.

I say just silently sweep their #### under the rug (translation: into the trash can) every time you see it until Synozeer updates the description from 'The place to post about anything' to 'The place to post about MUD-related issues that don't fit in any of the other forums' or something like it.

Otherwise, this place looks like an AOL chatroom. I'm surprised there's been no 'hey baby wanna cyber' or 'a/s/l' yet.

Shao_Long · 05-12-2002, 01:40 PM

hey...I still dont understand..
If you look for serious discussions - why cant you go to serious discussions section ?
and if knowledge that on another section some people talk and think differently,troubles you that much,why dont you start complaining that somewhere in internet there are some stupid discussions ? somewhere in all our damn world ?

Isnt the knowledge that mudders are here,is enough to make this thing mud-related ??

Xanferious · 05-12-2002, 02:52 PM

I sorta agree with shao_long here serious discussions are in the other categories of the forums, the tavern still though is intended for mud related, however it doesn't mean they have to be serious

05-10-2002, 09:03 PM	#21
LikitaRenn Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: portland, oregon, usa Posts: 138	well, what if someone really IS seriously wondering about other people's socks? how can you judge "oh, that's not a serious discussion" and delete it, without knowing? i mean, the socks wasn't serious, but as an example, what if it was? who's to say? -likita

05-10-2002, 09:06 PM	#22
Orion Elder Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 346

05-10-2002, 09:13 PM	#23
LikitaRenn Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: portland, oregon, usa Posts: 138

05-10-2002, 09:14 PM	#24
Shao_Long Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: belfast, UK Posts: 505	where to buy one ? where to find ? which mob to kill,Orion ?? tell me !!

05-10-2002, 09:26 PM	#25
Quietude New Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 12	My personal least-favorite threads (while I know many enjoyed them immensely) were the "Word Association" and "Story" threads, both of which took up two slots in the "most recent discussions" box -constantly- due to the frequency of updates. They no longer appear quite as often; I am relieved. I'd be more relieved if spam and meta-spam threads (ie, this one [yes, I am a hypocrite]) also didn't appear, though. I come here to read about MUDs. Nothing more, nothing less. While I don't object to other discussions being under way, I do object when the number of other threads proliferates to the point that not -one- MUD/RPing thread appears in the little box upon which I depend. this space intentionally left blank

05-11-2002, 01:06 AM	#26
Maggie Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 64	Although I do post in the Word Association thread off and on, I agree for the most part. If I wanted to find friends, I'd go to a site made to get people together; if I wanted to discuss music, I'd go to a site about the type of music I enjoy; if I wanted to discuss the color of people's socks, I'd see a psychiatrist; and if I wanted to witness a group of people insulting each other, I'd go to the playground at the elementary school down the street. This place looked really interesting at first, but it seems that most of the people who had useful information to share have either stopped posting it to flame others or have just stopped posting. I have no problem with people having a bit of fun, but not to the point that normal discussions no longer exist. Most of the forums I've used and worked for, have banned all flaming, profanity and off topic posts; I think Orion is trying hard to compromise, and should be given credit for that.

05-11-2002, 01:40 AM	#27
Quicksilver New Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toronto, ONT, Canada Posts: 23	There is another compromise which might not make everyone happy, but would probably satisfy both the purists and the completists. People have complained that the socks thread (and the like) is more appropriate for the Introduce yourself Forum. Solution: transfer that thread to that forum. Word Association and Storyline threads a bit too escessive for Tavern of the Blue Hand? Transfer them to the Storytelling Forum. Both fit the fictionalised setting of that forum. The song categories, books, movies, etc. still fit the Tavern motif, as it generates content which is of interest to a sizable portion if only for guaging the demographics of mudder's tastes, in areas which relate to the mudding influences. I don't think moving individual posts within a thread to the Spam or Flame threads would work in some cases. The point that context is highly necessary (even in spam) does have some weight. This doesn't mean the spam/flame posts can't be spun into their own unique threads, with a linkback to the original thread for reference. I know I made a non-mud related reply to the Woo! thread about birthdays, but that thread is about a member of the mudding community, which could feasibly be placed in Blue Hand. (Unfortunately, they spam, flame and why me? thread also fit within this category, since the forums themselves have become a part of the mudding community. I don't have any suggestions for those situations, unless a forum about forums were created. Just my opinion on the matter. Perversely, I agree that this thread is very relevant to the current forum. Hopefully some more posters will come up with some constructive suggestions. It never hurts giving the moderators a pool of ideas which they can sift through.

05-11-2002, 04:33 AM	#28
Molly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Sweden Home MUD: 4 Dimensions Posts: 574

05-11-2002, 04:55 AM	#29
weiss New Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6	I would have to agree with Terloch and others... I would say this forum should only be for mud related stuff, certainly no socks threads, however at the same time, I don't see the harm in the word association threads. I think the lines need to be drawn in the sand so to speak, and a decision made by someone who can. Weiss

05-11-2002, 09:05 AM	#30
Seth Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ede, The Netherlands Posts: 271	All this fuss about one of my threadss. Come on people, it was a JOKE. I posted that thread because someone else was glad there wasn't a socks related thread yet, I didn't post it to **** off 90% of you people who are quite a bit too serious on these forums. Jesus... I should start a carreer in advertising if anything I post makes such a fuss...

05-11-2002, 09:52 AM	#31
Kyandra Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 67	Isn't censoring a thread on censorship the ultimate form of the latter. Thank you for your kind words. At the risk of being banned from these forums (and if I am right at the moment I would say no serious loss) I would like to start a referendum for the resignation of the censor. (Maybe that should be the poll). Maybe I need to repeat a little of what I said before, in my censored thread. Take serious mud discussions to the serious parts of the form. This one is for being silly and having fun and, I will add, should be run by someone who has not forgotten what fun is. I see many of you young players who are so darned (I really wanted to use a stronger word here, read it in yourselves) serious about it all that you have forgotten that above all else (Unless you own evercrack and are making money at it) that a mud is a GAME that we are supposed to be playing for FUN and ENJOYMENT. Take away the fun Take away the goofyiness Take away the laughter Take away the community each (larger) mud has What do you have left -- nothing working PLAYing. Take away the fun, the goofyiness, the humor, the sense of community the silliness here has and what do you have left? A group of mudders who will go elsewhere, leaving this place so much poorer for their loss. Because they are not the newbie inexperienced players. They are the ones who (while you may not always believe it) care. ps -- thank you Molly

05-11-2002, 10:35 AM	#32
Sidmouth Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 35	As for me having no sense of humor: I certainly do, and my bookmarks contain a small selection of humorous websites. This is not one of them. This website is for the discussion of muds. Sure, muds are a form of entertainment, but that has never stopped literary critics from hotly debating the merit of an author, or high life elites in New York from trashing this or that new broadway play. I think most people here are here because they wish to discuss the nitty gritty of muds. What makes a mud entertaining? How can I make mine more entertaining? To take a comparison, Slashdot is filled with spammy posts, some of which are quite funny. Even if you do find links to a certain website (you know what I'm talking about), calls for slashdot blackouts and "why *BSD is dying" posts to be funny (and the latter 2 are very amusing to me), you probably do not read them, and any legitimate poster would almost certainly not speak up in their defense. This is noise run wild, and it is a -moderated- forum where you can avoid most spam by browsing at high mods. Topmudsites has no such system. The point is, I don't go to slashdot for funnies. If I wanted to laugh, I could go to seanbaby.com, forum3000.org, thespamletters, or any of a number of other sites. Now, if it is the case that the majority of people on the boards do not find the signal to ratio noise of these boards to be annoying, then perhaps nothing should be done about it. However, if many people find that: a) the spam is annoying, and b) it damages the usefulness of the forums for appropriate discussion, then something -should- be done. It is my opinion that people have mixed views about a, but I believe we have a majority that will agree with b. Again, the very least that should be done is for the posts to be removed from the recent discussions, as this will greatly mitigate b. -Sidmouth [EDIT]: Decided I did not agree with myself about censorship. If anyone feels that Orion is being unfair, I think it is appropriate that they should bring it up. Just keep in mind that this is a private forum and Orion has been entrusted by Synozeer to censor if he sees fit. If people have an issue with Orion's management of threads, they should bring it up with him or Synozeer, but it's a little early to call for his resignation on the basis of a post or two that you felt was justified and he didn't. [EDIT]: Reread Kyandra's original censorship post and find myself agreeing with my original statements (which I deleted). As the owner of this -private- forum, Synozeer is well within his rights to censor language and offensive humor if he sees fit. My clarification above is in the spirit that if you believe a moderator is truly abusing their powers, debate is welcome. However, I think Synozeer has made it clear that he objects to strong language on these boards, and so it is quite clear that Orion is acting appropriately to me. If you wish the policy on strong language to be changed, then start a thread, but make it a little more constructive than "Orion should resign and only Nazis disallow dirty jokes".

05-11-2002, 11:10 AM	#33
Dionae Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Littleton, CO, US Posts: 123	I agree that these forums do not need to be all serious discussions. I understand you guys want to have fun, but some things like the color of your socks, what your favorite fast food restaurant is, etc. I could care less about. I know it was just a joke, but some of us are just sick about the way these forums seem to be heading. I do have a sense of humor. I enjoy reading things in Mud Humor and posting in the quotefile thread and all, but at least those things are semi-mud related. Really, when someone said why should Synozeer spare the bandwith for something that is totally unrelated to his site, I completely agree. And I hate to see the Tavern of the Blue Hand become the forum for spammers and pointless, stupid posts. Some things, like the What Alignment are you? and What DnD Character are you? threads were interesting, and a nice way to learn more about people, while still having some relevance to muds and mudders' interests. Yet, with all the spam, it drowns out some of the more relevant posts. I started a thread in Tavern of the Blue Hand about Retaining Players, which seemed to spark some serious discussion. I don't think it really fit anywhere else, as it wasn't an advanced mud concept, it didn't have to do with roleplaying, or building, or coding, or anything. But threads like that get lost in all the pointless threads, and some people don't even visit the Tavern of the Blue Hand because of all the mindless posts. So, while you guys may enjoy the random silly posts and all, I think you should respect the majority of the people here's wishes. And if you really must post these kinds of threads, like someone said, there are plenty of other places where it would be more fitting.

05-11-2002, 02:26 PM	#34
Maggie Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 64	I just wanted to make a couple comments about this. First, I don't consider myself to be a young player; I am older than you are. I also think that you seem to have confused the forums with the games being discussed. The MUDs are meant for fun and enjoyment, but I was under the impression that this site was for sharing information and ideas aboiut them. When I want to play, I go to the game rather than doing it here. There is nothing wrong with my sense of humor; I even find a lot of the spam funny. I just think that so much of it in a forum not meant for it is very disruptive and detracts from the purpose of the boards. Having worked as a monitor/moderator, I know that people tend to dislike anyone who restricts what they're able to write; but I also know that with nobody doing that, the forum is doomed to be nothing but a slow moving chat room.

05-11-2002, 02:48 PM	#35
LikitaRenn Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: portland, oregon, usa Posts: 138	well, i don't know if it's really necessary to say that i agree with kyandra, since what she said is basically what i've been saying all along, but i will anyways. i thought it sucked when no one really listened to me, and i think it sucks worse that no one's listening to her. i was new here and i didn't really have an influence, so why should anyone listen to me, right? but from what i've seen, kyandra seems to be someone who has a pretty valuable opinion, and she's not a "spammer" or anything like that, so you people should maybe let some of the stuff she says sink in. you guys keep saying that no one wants to deal with the forums after it becomes full of "useless" posts, but i think that a lot of people won't want to come if it becomes all serious and boring! at least leave ONE forum FUN! i mean, if you don't want to read about socks, you can NOT click the thread that says "what color are your socks?" am i the only one who thinks it's pretty obvious? -likita

05-11-2002, 06:44 PM	#36
AngelaChristine New Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 10	Fun for who? Forums are supposed to be fun, but there are many thousands of forums out there so ideally everyone can find one that suits their intrests. A few "community" posts that have nothing to do with the main topic can be fun, but they shouldn't take over. When fun but off topic posts by a handfull of users start out-numbering on topic posts the group is on it's way down, I've seen this happen both with web forums and USENET groups. New readers are turned off because the group is mostly fluff and in jokes that they don't get, not the topic they came to the site to discuss. I find discussions that have some depth to be fun, I like discussing the implications of things. I don't find reading fluffy chats between people I don't know to be fun, that sort of thing would be better served by IRC, ICQ or private email. Is there some exhibitionist thrill folks get by holding pointless private discussions in public? Shallow, off-topic discussions between just a few people (say 5 or 6) clutter the boards and make them LESS fun for most of the other readers. I've barely read these forums in the last few months because nearly every topic in the recent discussions box has nothing to do with mudding. Taking the TotBH threads out of the recent discussions box would help. Another option would be for some savvy chatter to create a #topmudsites channel on an IRC server, creating a fun, informal place for members of the community to chat without disrupting ongoing mud related discussions here. Angela Christine

05-12-2002, 08:00 AM	#37
KaVir Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Name: Richard Home MUD: God Wars II Posts: 2,052	Take away the mud, and what do you have left? Discussions which don't belong here. I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I would not consider it any great loss. On the old forums it was always understood that the Tavern was for general discussions related to muds - this is, after all, Top Mud Sites. And everything was fine back then, without your "group of mudders". I'd be more than happy to go back to the way things were; I come here to discuss muds, not to participate in idle chatter. My suggestion is that Synozeer changes the forum descriptions to state the obvious. Just as we have warnings that state "this coffee is hot" or notices on packets of salted peanuts which state "this product contains nuts", so Synozeer should place a notice stating that the discussion forums on Top Mud Sites are for discussing issues related to muds.

05-12-2002, 08:34 AM	#38
Andvari New Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1	Don't you see what they've done already? By making such a big stink and whining about 'censorship' and 'why aren't we allowed to do whatever we want' they've made the focus of the forum all about them, anyway. I say just silently sweep their #### under the rug (translation: into the trash can) every time you see it until Synozeer updates the description from 'The place to post about anything' to 'The place to post about MUD-related issues that don't fit in any of the other forums' or something like it. Otherwise, this place looks like an AOL chatroom. I'm surprised there's been no 'hey baby wanna cyber' or 'a/s/l' yet.

05-12-2002, 01:40 PM	#39
Shao_Long Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: belfast, UK Posts: 505	hey...I still dont understand.. If you look for serious discussions - why cant you go to serious discussions section ? and if knowledge that on another section some people talk and think differently,troubles you that much,why dont you start complaining that somewhere in internet there are some stupid discussions ? somewhere in all our damn world ? Isnt the knowledge that mudders are here,is enough to make this thing mud-related ??

05-12-2002, 02:52 PM	#40
Xanferious Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The Void Posts: 490	I sorta agree with shao_long here serious discussions are in the other categories of the forums, the tavern still though is intended for mud related, however it doesn't mean they have to be serious

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