[DonathinFrye]

The threads continue to re-occur because that is the only way to get those with power to change the status quo to listen; repeated lobbying. The chances are greater that Syno understands the importance of this topic in relation to his forum users the more often we bring it up, and does something about it.

It's just how things work.

[GuruPlayer]

Oh Crapola Frye!!! You've been on a anti-the_logos rant ever since you registered on these forums! The only reason these threads are repeated is because of approx a dozen posters like you with an agenda, on both sides of the issues that feel the need to beat their chests repeatedly with the same tired arguments over & over & over. It's obvious to everyone that the website admins are aware of both sides' views, & choose not to change a thing, so grow up & live with it!

Oh, and Shane, why don't you try reading the 100's of pages of past threads re this pro/con commercial vs. non-commercial crap before you start throwing insults.

[John]

Originally Posted by (John @ May 09 2006,14:54) So Threshold I have a serious question here: Outside of what players buy, how do you deal with their demands when they expect special treatment in unrelated areas in the game, over players who haven't spent as much as them on Threshold?

Should I have worded it as a thinly veiled flame?

[Hadoryu]

I'm going to heartily agree with GuruPlayer here.

And seeking to force the site admin into doing what you want by keeping a wound like this open isn't exactly respectable. If you want something to change, you should just send an e-mail. One e-mail.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by (GuruPlayer @ May 11 2006,01:29) Oh, and Shane, why don't you try reading the 100's of pages of past threads re this pro/con commercial vs. non-commercial crap before you start throwing insults.

I didn't throw an insult, I reacted to your now repeated demand that I should read past threads before being allowed to post on new ones negatively.



Again, the simple solution is for those of you who the subject drives batty to ignore the threads about it.

[cron0s]

Originally Posted by (Shane @ May 11 2006,09:54) Again, the simple solution is for those of you who the subject drives batty to ignore the threads about it.

I think a far simpler solution would be for you to stop trolling and try reading the forum before posting. You have made over 100 posts in under 3 weeks. Get a clue.

[Valg]

Originally Posted by (Hadoryu @ May 11 2006,05:52) I'm going to heartily agree with GuruPlayer here. And seeking to force the site admin into doing what you want by keeping a wound like this open isn't exactly respectable. If you want something to change, you should just send an e-mail. One e-mail.

1) One might ask who is the bigger problem: The person discussing the issue longer than you'd like, or the people who only post to complain that the thread is too long. The simpler solution is: If the topic no longer interests you, don't read it and don't bump it. It obviously interests the people who are discussing it, snce they're voting with their virtual feet.

2) If Synozeer didn't want suggestions (public or otherwise) on how to improve his website, he probably wouldn't have created this forum named "Bugs and Suggestions", and given it the description: "Please report any bugs you find on Top Mud Sites and post any suggestions you'd like to see implemented."

[Valg]

Originally Posted by (John @ May 11 2006,04:20) Originally Posted by (John @ May 09 2006,14:54) So Threshold I have a serious question here: Outside of what players buy, how do you deal with their demands when they expect special treatment in unrelated areas in the game, over players who haven't spent as much as them on Threshold? Should I have worded it as a thinly veiled flame?

I assumed the initial question was rhetorical. Special treatment for those who spend extra implies 'unspecial' treatment for those who don't.

It's why we've made it clear to our playerbase that buying merchandise gets you merchandise, and not influence. Contrary to assertions made elsewhere in this thread, by all accounts they've been comfortable with that distinction-- I've handled the money for quite some time and I've only been approached once by someone who thought his financial support meant special favors. (It didn't. The ban he was protesting remains intact to this day.)

[HBDR]

Originally Posted by (Valg @ May 11 2006,10:53) It's why we've made it clear to our playerbase that buying merchandise gets you merchandise, and not influence.

Exactly, and anyone who expects otherwise just isn't right upstairs. Donations are donations, merchandise is merchandise. This kind of policy is what I can respect and think is an outstanding example of what other MU*s should follow.

[Shane]

Meh, can't seem to find the delete button.

Anyhow, yeah. It agravates me when people try to control other people's conversation by insulting and bullying tactics. Can't seem to resist responding.

[Valg]

I'd forgotten about this, but there are MUDs that actually advertise that you'll get better customer service if you pay more.  Taken verbatim:

Separate, Speedier Queues for Assistance, Referrals and Feedback! ... As a Premium member, you will gain access to faster assistance lines to reach a GameHost and faster referral lines to speak to a GameMaster. And letters sent to our Feedback department by Premium members are also routed to a special mailbox and answered first!

At least they're open about less-paying (but still paying, on this game) customers having to sit at the back of the virtual bus.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Valg @ May 11 2006,16:45) At least they're open about less-paying (but still paying, on this game) customers having to sit at the back of the virtual bus.

I'm not sure what MUD you're referencing, but your implication that there's some analog between giving better customer service to people who pay more and segregationist policies is more than a little bit over the top.

Is it 'bad' when Disneyland sells less waiting in lines to people? Is it 'bad' when companies sell you different levels of customer service plans, such as Dell (along with many, many companies) do?

--matt

[John]

Originally Posted by (Valg @ May 11 2006,21:53) Originally Posted by (John @ May 11 2006,04:20) Originally Posted by John,May 09 2006,14:54 So Threshold I have a serious question here: Outside of what players buy, how do you deal with their demands when they expect special treatment in unrelated areas in the game, over players who haven't spent as much as them on Threshold? Should I have worded it as a thinly veiled flame? I assumed the initial question was rhetorical. Special treatment for those who spend extra implies 'unspecial' treatment for those who don't. It's why we've made it clear to our playerbase that buying merchandise gets you merchandise, and not influence. Contrary to assertions made elsewhere in this thread, by all accounts they've been comfortable with that distinction-- I've handled the money for quite some time and I've only been approached once by someone who thought his financial support meant special favors. (It didn't. The ban he was protesting remains intact to this day.)

That's why I'm interested to see how Threshold copes with this phenomenon he claims is present in all muds.

[Hadoryu]

Originally Posted by (Valg @ May 11 2006,11:47) Originally Posted by (Hadoryu @ May 11 2006,05:52) I'm going to heartily agree with GuruPlayer here. And seeking to force the site admin into doing what you want by keeping a wound like this open isn't exactly respectable. If you want something to change, you should just send an e-mail. One e-mail. 1) One might ask who is the bigger problem: The person discussing the issue longer than you'd like, or the people who only post to complain that the thread is too long.  The simpler solution is: If the topic no longer interests you, don't read it and don't bump it.  It obviously interests the people who are discussing it, snce they're voting with their virtual feet. 2) If Synozeer didn't want suggestions (public or otherwise) on how to improve his website, he probably wouldn't have created this forum named "Bugs and Suggestions", and given it the description: "Please report any bugs you find on Top Mud Sites and post any suggestions you'd like to see implemented."

1) At which point does it stop being a discussion? I'm pretty sure nothing new is being said, in fact, Donathin said it was actually 'lobbying'. Is that a proper use of the forum?

2) So how many times do you rehash something before it becomes 'a new suggestion'? Synozeer knows about what's being suggested already - the forum's served it's purpose.

[Shane]

"1) At which point does it stop being a discussion? I'm pretty sure nothing new is being said, in fact, Donathin said it was actually 'lobbying'. Is that a proper use of the forum?"

It never stops being a discussion. A person can lobby for change through discussion, much as you are trying to lobby for a change of topic on this thread rather than starting one of your own. It certainly does not stop being a discussion due to length.

"2) So how many times do you rehash something before it becomes 'a new suggestion'? Synozeer knows about what's being suggested already - the forum's served it's purpose."

The most obvious point is that the forum is not labelled "new suggestion" forum. Aside from that, new people can sometimes have new things to say about an old suggestion.

Just as you say that the website owner knows of the suggestion, I feel fairly sure he also knows about the ongoing debates regarding it.

But these answers are all too obvious. Yet again I implore you, instead of trying to control other people's topics of interest, why not go and read or start topics of your own, and leave people alone who want to discuss something of no interest to you. There really is NO problem with that from any sector. You are free at ANY time to stop messing with this thread and go deal with other ones.

Seriously.... not to be combative or anything, just up front, what is your issue with people posting notes on a forum about muds that deals with marketing and business model information for muds? How can you take issue with that, even if it has been going on for ages? Who cares if it has been going on for ages? Why do YOU care if it has been going on for ages?

[Hadoryu]

Is it still a discussion when neither side is listening to the other? I understand that you're new to the discussion, but it's beyond old at this point. At this point it isn't being raised so it's merits are discussed, instead it's being spammed in what seems to be an attempt to exhaust the admin to the point of compliance.

It bothers me because along with the rehashing come the rehashed veiled insults and insinuations, which are leveled against the owner of a place I've chosen as a virtual playground.

[Lark]

Hey, if people want to go around in circles their whole lives, that's fine. Who knows, something might even change because of it.

If we're running under the assumption that Synozeer knows the arguments and knows the discussions, then I'm sure he'd have come down and made an announcement if he didn't want us saying the same things again and again. And he hasn't.

It's his site, and his whatever it takes to keep it running, and it's no skin off any of our asses if people want to play 'the chicken or the egg' the rest of their lives.

[DonathinFrye]

It's obvious that this subject is still important an interesting to a large number of the active forum population. Until things change and people are happy, it seems likely that people will keep beating this "dead horse" until it wakes up and rides again.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by (Hadoryu @ May 12 2006,14:19) Is it still a discussion when neither side is listening to the other? I understand that you're new to the discussion, but it's beyond old at this point. At this point it isn't being raised so it's merits are discussed, instead it's being spammed in what seems to be an attempt to exhaust the admin to the point of compliance. It bothers me because along with the rehashing come the rehashed veiled insults and insinuations, which are leveled against the owner of a place I've chosen as a virtual playground.

Some of the people actively participating are mods in these forums here and there. There doesn't seem to be any danger of some sort of admin upheaval over this.

I don't think you have to worry much about Synozeer being harassed out of his mind or anything. It is your own well being that seems most at risk, and I still am not sure why it bothers you to the extent it does, but I feel sorry for ya if that helps.

[Emil]

Hadoryu,: May 12 2006,14:19

Originally Posted by Is it still a discussion when neither side is listening to the other? I understand that you're new to the discussion, but it's beyond old at this point. At this point it isn't being raised so it's merits are discussed, instead it's being spammed in what seems to be an attempt to exhaust the admin to the point of compliance.

I guess the issue will keep popping up until we get a clear message from Synozeer himself on the matter, not just from other posters who claim to know exactly what’s going on in his mind. They might quite possibly be right, but we still want to hear it from Synozeer, not them.

The topic apparently is quite important to a rather large number of posters here. Important enough, it seems, for some of them to get together and create their own website to promote Free Quality Muds, when they were denied the search engine for them here. The address to the site under construction is http://mud.adventmud.org/.

Looks like a rather professional job too.

Oops, sorry, my bad!
I forgot that the word ‘professional’ has been usurped by certain posters, and is now supposed to only refer to Muds where the owner makes a full time living from his game. The rest of the Mud developers are just pesky amateurs, it seems, no matter how good their games or whether they work as professional (sic! coders, web designers or writers in RL.

Oh well, it still looks like a very professional job to me.