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Old 03-31-2006, 06:18 AM   #21
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IMHO, the voting for this site has come down to not who can send the most players here to vote for their game, but who can come up with a script, code, scheme etc to get the most votes out of their players. The MUDs who can think up ways to almost 'get around' the rules win. Of course the MUDs at the top have larger playerbases than the ones at the bottom, but it just seems to me that to be at the top of the list on this site you have to either cheat to get ahead or just almost cheat the rules.

Personally, I'm happy we no longer care about voting here.. it's a lot of stress off of us to keep finding ways to get our players to vote without bribes, cheating, scheming, etc. We've decided to focus on TMC where the rules are not so strict and detailed.

And btw, if WOTmud is bribing and cheating, they should be removed of course. That would be only fair.
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Old 03-31-2006, 07:54 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Soleil @ Mar. 31 2006,06:18)
Personally, I'm happy we no longer care about voting here.. it's a lot of stress off of us to keep finding ways to get our players to vote without bribes, cheating, scheming, etc.  We've decided to focus on TMC where the rules are not so strict and detailed.
You mean where you can use bribes, cheating and scheming to get your players to vote for you?  
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Old 03-31-2006, 08:00 AM   #23
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The moderator should place Soleil's post in the proper category. I am leaning towards jokes & humor, if t there is one ofcourse.

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Old 03-31-2006, 08:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Soleil @ Mar. 31 2006,12:18)
Personally, I'm happy we no longer care about voting here.
You mean "got banned for repeatedly cheating".
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Old 03-31-2006, 10:38 AM   #25
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Gimme a break.. again I ask, why does EVERY post from me have to result in flames?  If you must know, which it seems you do, Vryce and Synozeer did not agree on the rules of this site. Yes our ivote code went against the rules of this site, but it's the code we wished to use. They agreed to disagree and Vryce asked for Medievia to be removed from the voting list.  Because this IS indeed Synozeer's site and his rules, Medievia was removed.    Therefore, Medievia is no longer listed on the voting list.  And as I stated before, I'm so glad for it.  

Our ivote system is still being used for Mudconnector and our players are thankful for it because there is no more spam at all about voting.  They have the prompt turned on or off, they vote if they want to, and no one is sending global echos anymore.  Only the people who want to be reminded are reminded.  The result has been a consistent #2 or 3 spot at Mudconnector and very few complaints from our players.  No more spam or stress!

(Added this as an afterthought)
Of course you all are going to stick to your "Medievia was removed for cheating" stance and that is fine.  I developed a thick skin to all this long ago and I know that the name Medievia is synonymous will all things bad on these sites.  I just figured I'd finally tell you all how it really happened.  Vryce and Synozeer shared several emails before our removal and again I will tell you that it was US who asked to be removed.  We were not removed against our will etc etc.  In the end, Synozeer is a pretty fair guy and gave us many chances to change our system.  Vryce believes that to turn the ivote off by default would lead to even MORE spam to our players than just the ivote itself gives and we didn't want to have to spam echos AND have the ivote prompt to compete here.  The result has been happier Medievia players and imms overall and to tell you the truth, although being at the top of the voting list here did send more players our way, we have not seen that much of a difference in new player creations since we removed ourselves.  In fact, it seems that being at the top of TMC has had more of an affect than being at the top here.
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Old 03-31-2006, 11:09 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Soleil @ Mar. 31 2006,16:38)
If you must know, which it seems you do, Vryce and Synozeer did not agree on the rules of this site. Yes our ivote code went against the rules of this site, but it's the code we wished to use.
So you just didn't agree with the site owners rules, and as a result decided to keep doing what you were doing?

Could you please explain how that's different from cheating?
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Old 03-31-2006, 11:21 AM   #27
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This is how it went down...

1.  We found out Aardwolf had a voting prompt, we thought "cool we can do that."  We finally found out what they were doing to get their players reminded/motivated to vote.  Sounded like a good idea and worth our while to get to the top of the list.

2.  We coded ivote.  Other MUD admins found out about it, posted about it.  We said "Hey, Aardwolf is doing it, why can't we?"

3.  After debate on these very forums, Matt and Synozeer rewrote the rules of this site to state "off by default".  One could say that they were written specifically against Medievia's new ivote code, but we won't go there.  However, no one gave a crap about anyone else's voting code until we created it.

4.  Synozeer wrote to Vryce and I with a warning that if we didn't change or remove our code we would be removed.  We didn't agree with the new rules, we asked to be removed.

5.  No more voting spam or stress at Medievia!
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Old 03-31-2006, 11:42 AM   #28
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Nods, definately Mud Jokes and Humor.

Good Stuff...
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Old 03-31-2006, 11:47 AM   #29
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The only site that seems to have a reasonably cheatproof system for voting is Mudmagic.com.

To vote there you need to submit your e-mail, and also match a 5-letter code. Then the voting code checks your e-mail against the isp. You can vote once a day there, and any attempts of excessive votes are simply disabled by the code. It also sends a message about the failure, which is a good service, in case someone mistakenly tries to vote an hour early.

If TMS were to implement a similar system, it would probably stop most of the cheating. But then again it would also make it at least a bit harder to get the click-cattle to vote, so most likely the total number of votes would drop drastically. But at least it would be more like real traffic then, and not just script-induced vote-spam.
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Old 03-31-2006, 12:14 PM   #30
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No - actually this triple exp has nothing to do with votes here. I _used_ to have it that if we finished in the top 5 I'd put out double exp for a while. I exchanged some emails with Synozeer a couple of weeks ago who put me right about this, so since then top 5 hasn't even been mentioned anywhere by me.

ok?
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Old 03-31-2006, 12:20 PM   #31
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Wow, having a shot at the zmud plugin too. Well that's been around for what, about 2 years now, I know plenty of other muds have copied it. I've also certainly never seen that described anywhere as illegal.

ok?
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Old 03-31-2006, 12:31 PM   #32
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By the way, you're probably not aware logos, but it was actually one of your Lusternia players that went to the admin here about our double exp stuff, after which the admin popped me a mail. There was a thread about it on one of your IRE boards, just do a search for wotmud. Personally I think it reeks a bit of jealousy and sour grapes but hey, whatever.

My misunderstanding, as I explained to him, was this: I didn't reward the voters in-game over-and-beyond anyone else. Ie, everyone got double exp, regardless of if they voted or not. Anyhow that's, I gather, also not allowed, hence you'll find no mention of it by me at all since. Feel free to look.

Anyhow - I definitely do agree with some of the posters here, being high on the list is nothing to do with quality whatsoever. All it measures is the ability to get high on this list, ie popularity. Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves. Now some may say that popularity actually means quality, I'd submit "macdonalds" in rebuttal.

Have a nice day.
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Old 03-31-2006, 01:00 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (nass @ April 01 2006,01:31)
By the way, you're probably not aware logos, but it was actually one of your Lusternia players that went to the admin here about our double exp stuff, after which the admin popped me a mail. There was a thread about it on one of your IRE boards, just do a search for wotmud. Personally I think it reeks a bit of jealousy and sour grapes but hey, whatever.
I saw it mentioned in another double xp post but it was by an admin from Aetolia... same thing though, heh.
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Old 03-31-2006, 01:05 PM   #34
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oops my, bad, Aetolia, Lusternia, I get them mixed up
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Old 03-31-2006, 01:45 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by (nass @ Mar. 31 2006,13:05)
oops my, bad, Aetolia, Lusternia, I get them mixed up
I will keeeeel you!

Lusternia is much sexier than Aetolia!
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Old 03-31-2006, 01:56 PM   #36
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Logos - go and read http://www.wotmud.org/forums....start=0  and http://www.wotmud.org/forums....m=74&43 Then, check the dates of the posts, how it's clearly all about that social bookmarking. Personally I believe the classy thing to do would be to make an apology.

Also, in the future, since you're a moderator and represent this place here now, I do think you need to act more professionally and set a better example. Ie, take some steps and allow some time to get the full picture about things before accusing people on the boards.

Thanks.
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Old 03-31-2006, 02:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Soleil @ Mar. 31 2006,06:18)
The MUDs who can think up ways to almost 'get around' the rules win.  Of course the MUDs at the top have larger playerbases than the ones at the bottom, but it just seems to me that to be at the top of the list on this site you have to either cheat to get ahead or just almost cheat the rules.

Personally, I'm happy we no longer care about voting here..
Just because you and your oh-so-ethical husband cheated (and got banned), doesn't mean everyone else cheats. Feel free to sniff around us, and you'll see that we don't interrupt gameplay, offer incentives, distribute bots/scripts, or do anything remotely against the rules of the site. Yet we're pretty consistently in the #3-#5 spot.

We run a clean ship. Don't try to smear us with the filth you swim in.
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Old 03-31-2006, 02:21 PM   #38
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I wasn't smearing anyone, merely making an observation based on this thread, which pointedly shows yet another way that a MUD has gone above and beyond (the rules?) to get to the top of this list.  

Personally I think it's great that you have motivated your players to vote without having to resort to the things other games have had to do.  Mind sharing how you do it??
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Old 03-31-2006, 02:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Soleil @ Mar. 31 2006,06:18)
The MUDs who can think up ways to almost 'get around' the rules win. Of course the MUDs at the top have larger playerbases than the ones at the bottom, but it just seems to me that to be at the top of the list on this site you have to either cheat to get ahead or just almost cheat the rules.
Excuse me, but many MUDs in the top 10 do -not- cheat. Iron Realms MUDs are among those. We follow the rules to the letter, and if you'd like to accuse us of doing otherwise, please post your evidence.
--matt
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Old 03-31-2006, 02:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (nass @ Mar. 31 2006,13:56)
Logos - go and read http://www.wotmud.org/forums....start=0 and http://www.wotmud.org/forums....m=74&43 Then, check the dates of the posts, how it's clearly all about that social bookmarking. Personally I believe the classy thing to do would be to make an apology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
By the way, you're probably not aware logos, but it was actually one of your Lusternia players that went to the admin here about our double exp stuff, after which the admin popped me a mail. There was a thread about it on one of your IRE boards, just do a search for wotmud. Personally I think it reeks a bit of jealousy and sour grapes but hey, whatever.

Wow, that is some gall. You get caught cheating and claim that turning you in for cheating is "jealousy" and "sour grapes?" You want me to apologize for pointing out that you guys were cheating? I think not.

It's you who owes everyone else an apology. Whether you knew it or not, you were breaking the rules. There's no denying that really, whether it was innocent or not.


--matt
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