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Old 10-06-2010, 07:12 PM   #161
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Hey, y'know what it takes to have a thread not be "derailed"? People POSTING ABOUT THE NOMINAL TOPIC. If you want to talk about what the thread was originally about, like, do so. Whingeing about the nasty topic bandits doesn't generate relevant content.
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:25 PM   #162
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by MudMann View Post
Mentioning your game in context / as example is not advertising, and isnt banned so stop bringing it up as a weapon. Personally I dont think anyone had the right to make a set of rules that define something which is purely personal, i.e how intense RP is and the fact that they HAVE is why these arguments occur.

These forums breakdowns re. RPI and its definition will stop when new definitions are penned that do not try to define an experience which can change from player to player and game to game.

I have been playing muds for a long time (double figures in years), interactive fiction since 1981, and Role playing games for just as long. I do not accept the criteria that makes an RPI game according to some set of rules that define game mechanics laid down ages ago by a dwindling group of people.

Hence I dont respect it, and laugh at anyone who can point at a list and say "Sorry Threshold, you fail on OOC channels so you are not a role play intensive game" when it was so unbelievably intensive that after 3.5 years of play I had to quit. Yet the 'rpi' game Armeggedon, so RP -Intense- I was killed walking down the street for no reason whatsoever just getting my bearings... ooooo INTENSE RP! Left me quivering and my mind buzzing from the experience... oh..wait...

New definitions need to be defined before these pointless derailings stop. The current RPI rules in my opinion should be more accuratly defined for the most part as "Real Life Mechanic" games, or "Invisible Mechanic games", or whatever it takes to distance from 'Roleplay Intensive' as the current definitions and have nothing to do with RP or its intensity. I honestly feel that the very definition of RPI some would have us accept is actually bordering on farce and false advertising
Changing what RPI stands for to players of Armageddon, etc., etc., other RPI games, would be like trying to proclaim to the world that "Indian" is no longer acceptable in any way to refer to Native Americans. You can try. But it more than likely won't work.

And that's a nice anecdote about how "intense" Threshold is.... Too bad anecdotes don't really prove much of anything at all.

And I'm sorry, but any time I see, "Well, here at <insert MUD name.>" posted by the owner of the mud, I can't help but think, "Shameless plug....".

Because that's pretty much what it is.

Even if there aren't any rules against it.
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:48 PM   #163
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by Qzzrbl View Post
Changing what RPI stands for to players of Armageddon, etc., etc., other RPI games, would be like trying to proclaim to the world that "Indian" is no longer acceptable in any way to refer to Native Americans. You can try. But it more than likely won't work.

And that's a nice anecdote about how "intense" Threshold is.... Too bad anecdotes don't really prove much of anything at all.

And I'm sorry, but any time I see, "Well, here at <insert MUD name.>" posted by the owner of the mud, I can't help but think, "Shameless plug....".

Because that's pretty much what it is.

Even if there aren't any rules against it.
I am not going to expand on the story as its not relevant other than to say my RL emotions and day could be badly affected by the RP affecting my character it was so intense. Days would be spent preparaing, dwelling on situations happening in game.. I studied geology / nature / botany and biology to be a better ranger class and put WORK on hold for it.

I digress..comparing Native Americans / Indians to the definition RPI is a poor and stupidly extreme example and it shouldnt affect the players one iota. its not been in use THAT long and regardless.. it is completely bogus and noone has the right to take a personal feeling and stamp a trademark or whatever on a phrase than can be used to describe hundreds of games.

and on the plugging... NW / Threshold and whatever game you habve mentioned are well known, and mentioning them in context will not affect their ratings one way or another, and to single out NW is ridiculous as loads of people does it. NW is the first to help out when people mention olders games, and sometimes with relevant information to show they have even played them. Hell every time I post I plug primoriax and godwars as they are under my name.. YOU have armageddon.

You are trying to trash the player into looking to those who may be new to the forums to be an opportunist with ulteriior motive when in actualy fact they are no different from almost every dev and player on these forums.

Signing up with a new account to join in this discussion and start lashing out at people who have been around for a long time is the only thing that has totally derailed this thread beyond repair.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:08 PM   #164
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

You people have lost your mind. Or you'll say any random thing you can think of to continue an argument.

Of course RPI's require Role Play.

Oh and in cause someone is going to feign disingenuous confusion, they also require an internet connection.

Are you people kidding?
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:18 PM   #165
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by MudMann View Post
I am not going to expand on the story as its not relevant other than to say my RL emotions and day could be badly affected by the RP affecting my character it was so intense. Days would be spent preparaing, dwelling on situations happening in game.. I studied geology / nature / botany and biology to be a better ranger class and put WORK on hold for it.
This happens on Armageddon too, though I can't really speak for other RPI muds.

Tell ya what, I'll give Threshold a try so I can have my own opinion on it.

Promise I won't go in with a biased attitude.

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I digress..comparing Native Americans / Indians to the definition RPI is a poor and stupidly extreme example and it shouldnt affect the players one iota. its not been in use THAT long and regardless.. it is completely bogus and noone has the right to take a personal feeling and stamp a trademark or whatever on a phrase than can be used to describe hundreds of games.
Alright, sure. That example might've been a bit out there. x-X

But, to my knowledge, the term RPI was originally created to describe Muds like Armageddon, SoI, Harshlands, etc.

But then other people piped in saying, "NO YO CAN'T USE THAT I WANT THAT TERM TOO!"

So you can understand how that can get annoying.... I'd imagine that no matter what acronym muds like Arm, SoI, etc., etc., try to use there will be other people trying to claim it.

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Originally Posted by MudMann View Post
and on the plugging... NW / Threshold and whatever game you habve mentioned are well known, and mentioning them in context will not affect their ratings one way or another, and to single out NW is ridiculous as loads of people does it. NW is the first to help out when people mention olders games, and sometimes with relevant information to show they have even played them. Hell every time I post I plug primoriax and godwars as they are under my name.. YOU have armageddon.
Touche.... I'll give you that one.

I'll stop calling folks out on advertising.

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You are trying to trash the player into looking to those who may be new to the forums to be an opportunist with ulteriior motive when in actualy fact they are no different from almost every dev and player on these forums.
Not exactly.... I just get a bit fired up when things seem to turn into "RPI vs. Everyone Else".

Because it's annoying, it really is.

I tell you, if someone started a thread that called, "Veterans of No-RP H&S MUDs", and someone makes one post about how no permadeath is lame, and how the lack of realism is silly, and then the ORIGINAL POSTER goes on to agree with and carry the torch of that one guy who posted..... There'd be a pretty heated discussion there.

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Originally Posted by MudMann View Post
Signing up with a new account to join in this discussion and start lashing out at people who have been around for a long time is the only thing that has totally derailed this thread beyond repair.
I didn't create this account with the sole intention of joining this thread.

And I don't give two ****s and a squirrel fart as to how long somebody's been on these forums.

If someone does something that *bugs the **** out of me, then of course I'm going to post, and I'm not going to have much nice to say.

This thread was already derailed beyond any hope when I posted.

*(like starting a thread catering to RPI veterans, and then letting it derail, and then -joining- the derail, and the supporting stuff that no true RPI has, and then acting like you tried to stop it when you really only contributed to it)
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:15 PM   #166
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Hence I dont respect it, and laugh at anyone who can point at a list and say "Sorry Threshold, you fail on OOC channels so you are not a role play intensive game" when it was so unbelievably intensive that after 3.5 years of play I had to quit. Yet the 'rpi' game Armeggedon, so RP -Intense- I was killed walking down the street for no reason whatsoever just getting my bearings... ooooo INTENSE RP! Left me quivering and my mind buzzing from the experience... oh..wait...
You died walking down the street. That sounds oddly familiar. Oh that **** actually happens in real life. Sorry you don't like realism, which is fine, but it INTENSIFIES the roleplaying experience. You can die anywhere at anytime. Most likely you were new to the mud and did something that got you criminally flagged and you were killed by the soldiers. Since you just said I was killed walking down the street for no reason, you probably can't remember what you were doing to cause your death. Whether it was a crime of some sort, or a player that did it. You don't just randomly die on Armageddon, unless you were in the unlawful part of Allanak known as the Labyrinth. Oh wait...

Why do I even bother responding? You obviously don't care enough about Arm to learn about places like the 'rinth. If you read the documentation you would probably learn that walking down a street there and just getting your bearings CAN get you killed. Especially if you're on the elven side as a human. There are NPCs that will attack you just for being human, it's called.. racism. Oh that sounds familiar too.

I'm done for now.
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:52 AM   #167
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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You died walking down the street. That sounds oddly familiar. Oh that **** actually happens in real life. Sorry you don't like realism, which is fine, but it INTENSIFIES the roleplaying experience. You can die anywhere at anytime. Most likely you were new to the mud and did something that got you criminally flagged and you were killed by the soldiers. Since you just said I was killed walking down the street for no reason, you probably can't remember what you were doing to cause your death. Whether it was a crime of some sort, or a player that did it. You don't just randomly die on Armageddon, unless you were in the unlawful part of Allanak known as the Labyrinth. Oh wait...

Why do I even bother responding? You obviously don't care enough about Arm to learn about places like the 'rinth. If you read the documentation you would probably learn that walking down a street there and just getting your bearings CAN get you killed. Especially if you're on the elven side as a human. There are NPCs that will attack you just for being human, it's called.. racism. Oh that sounds familiar too.

I'm done for now.
To single out Arm was an error, appologies Delerak, I have tried to get into that game as it sounds like an awesome setting, but the point remains that there was nothing intense about the experience. There was a complete lack of any RP in any of the three characters.. yeah one (the second character) did something naughty and was truely spanked by guards, my first one move out the city gate, was caught in a sandstorm and died, and the third was a human ranger, yes in Allanak (or whatever it was called) and I cant remember where i died but walking down a main street, with no warning DEAD after going through the approval process yet again is stupid.

I dont see any reason why ALL MUD games shouldnt have a tunable advice channel (off by default even), not having it is a serious barrier to newbie players. We are getting a lot of new players in Primoridax who are new to text games in general and without that channel they would not have stayed to learn the game. To Deny a game the label of an 'intense roleplay experience' based on having a channel to help new players is utter rubbish.

and back on topic, maybe this is the ultimate crux of the matter and the reason why veterans of roleplay are dropping off and fading away. Roleplay requries other people, and players need replacing.. no players = not a lot of fun. By putting up stupid barriers to entry to get the label RPI on some of these richly detailed muds and settings, players will not be replaced, and veterans of ROLEPLAY GAMES like me will just turn my back on them as it just not worth the effort. New Worlds has a swelling player base, and lots of fuel for good roleplay.. why? because it remembers ultimatly it is a game, and games need time to learn and need to forgive mistakes and people need to ask questions. Maybe 'RPI' games should look to redefining themselves for their own survival
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:37 AM   #168
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Yeah one (the second character) did something naughty and was truely spanked by guards, my first one move out the city gate, was caught in a sandstorm and died, and the third was a human ranger, yes in Allanak (or whatever it was called) and I cant remember where i died but walking down a main street, with no warning DEAD after going through the approval process yet again is stupid.
Now I find this -very- hard to believe....

Because as a courtesy to new players, Armageddon gives newbs a "mulligan" if they're killed right out of character creation-- up to two hours of protection, I believe. (before you go off on a tangent and say, "OMG THAT WOULD TOTALLY RUIN MY IMMERSION, THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE RP EVEN THOUGH I PLAY IN A MUD WITH NO PERMADEATH!", this is just for new players. After gaining one karma, you don't have this safety net anymore.

Though I can tell you weren't truly -in character-.... Perhaps you thought you were, but you clearly weren't if you thought it'd be a cakewalk to go romp around in a VAST ****ING DESERT WHERE SANDSTORMS SPARK ON A WHIM AND FULL OF DANGEROUS CRITTERS AND RAIDERS AND ICKY ELVES WITH POISONED ARROWS all by your lonesome?

Would you do that in real life?

I don't think you would.... So why would your character?

And in a city where resisting arrest is punishable by death-- what did you think would happen after doing something naughty and catching the guard's attention?

I admit, there's a -steep- learning curve, and death is always around the corner, but the RP's top-notch. If you had perhaps talked to other players.... Made friends.... Things would have been different.

The main thing that repels alot of people from RPIs is because they come in with a totally different mindset. They come in thinking they can be a lone badass from the very start.

Which simply isn't the case.

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I dont see any reason why ALL MUD games shouldnt have a tunable advice channel (off by default even), not having it is a serious barrier to newbie players. We are getting a lot of new players in Primoridax who are new to text games in general and without that channel they would not have stayed to learn the game. To Deny a game the label of an 'intense roleplay experience' based on having a channel to help new players is utter rubbish.
The idea of abolishing global OOC channels, is so everyone is on the same footing.... You're paying attention to the game, without much to distract you.

In a game with permadeath, it would suck -alot- if you were in the middle of an OOC conversation about last night's football game when some big terrible beasty suddenly comes in and attacks.

I think that's the main idea. That sure, you can browser-hop, or chat with folks on AIM or whatever, but your text input is empty so when something comes up, all you have to do is click and go!

As far as newbies go, there's perhaps only -one single- global OOC channel I wouldn't mind all that much, and that would be a newbie help channel. The idea's been tossed around a little, and the main point would be for Staff-Approved helpers to help with newbies. The channel would be logged and easily reviewed by Imms to prevent abuse, and would be invisible to anyone not a helper (even then it would be toggle), and anyone not asking newb questions. (Yeah, yeah, I'm endorsing a -very- strict and regulated OOC channel with the sole intent of helping new players, despite what I've said in previous posts. Don't be a bitchy nitpicker, please.)

Though really, it's not -that- much of a barrier, as many RPIs are still gaining new players who grit their teeth and rough through it until they get used to the game.

Though until then, there -is- a list of AIM screennames leading to staff-approved helpers who are more than willing to help with newbies.

Problem is, most newbies step in and wonder why creatures don't carry coins and wonder why they can't see their experience points and leave without going any further.

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Originally Posted by MudMann View Post
and back on topic, maybe this is the ultimate crux of the matter and the reason why veterans of roleplay are dropping off and fading away. Roleplay requries other people, and players need replacing.. no players = not a lot of fun. By putting up stupid barriers to entry to get the label RPI on some of these richly detailed muds and settings, players will not be replaced, and veterans of ROLEPLAY GAMES like me will just turn my back on them as it just not worth the effort. New Worlds has a swelling player base, and lots of fuel for good roleplay.. why? because it remembers ultimatly it is a game, and games need time to learn and need to forgive mistakes and people need to ask questions. Maybe 'RPI' games should look to redefining themselves for their own survival
And really, I haven't even noticed many veteran players dropping out.... Has anyone else?

I don't think it's that much of a problem.

The rules of RPI games are fine. We're not endangered or anything, we just have a slower influx of players who stay because of the learning curve. Which is fine, in my opinion.

It'd be -alot- easier if everyone read through that mountain of documentation though.... It -really- helps you to understand what to expect.

Everybody playing RPIs went through the same thing, but we all understand why Armageddon is often called "Crackageddon". (Yeah, yeah, shameless plug, don't be a bitchy nitpicker, please.)
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:19 AM   #169
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Though until then, there -is- a list of AIM screennames leading to staff-approved helpers who are more than willing to help with newbies.
heh heh so there are OOC chat channel, they are just outside the game and activly used huh? looks like a loophole to me, but I am being picky.

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Problem is, most newbies step in and wonder why creatures don't carry coins and wonder why they can't see their experience points and leave without going any further.
Thats what happens when there is no help, potential new blood leaves. In game OOC help means noone has to leave the game to find it. Tunable OOC channel are an asset, not having them is a barrier. Plus I am well aware of staying in character, that wasnt a problem. The second character was -in character- I just got killed for being in character and not very sensible, I wasnt allowed to learn from that mistake. All my characters got killed outside the safety period, the third lasted the longest. I had water, a rented room and was ready to go.. I went, I died, I left out of frustration as there was no way I was investing time creating a fourth character.

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And really, I haven't even noticed many veteran players dropping out.... Has anyone else?

I don't think it's that much of a problem.

The rules of RPI games are fine. We're not endangered or anything, we just have a slower influx of players who stay because of the learning curve. Which is fine, in my opinion.
Sorry, but have you read any of the posts by 'veterans'? They tell me a different story. I can only go by what I am reading, not personal experience.

I personally think RPI should stand for 'Role Play Inflexible'
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:42 AM   #170
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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I dont see any reason why ALL MUD games shouldnt have a tunable advice channel (off by default even), not having it is a serious barrier to newbie players.
There are plenty of ways for newbies to learn the ropes besides OOC channels.

Quote:
...maybe this is the ultimate crux of the matter and the reason why veterans of roleplay are dropping off and fading away. Roleplay requries other people, and players need replacing.. no players = not a lot of fun. By putting up stupid barriers to entry to get the label RPI on some of these richly detailed muds and settings, players will not be replaced, and veterans of ROLEPLAY GAMES like me will just turn my back on them as it just not worth the effort. New Worlds has a swelling player base, and lots of fuel for good roleplay.. why? because it remembers ultimatly it is a game, and games need time to learn and need to forgive mistakes and people need to ask questions. Maybe 'RPI' games should look to redefining themselves for their own survival
That's actually a straw man argument since the semi-recent departure of veteran RPI players has been during a period of UNPRECEDENTED PLAYERBASE GROWTH in the RPIs. There are more people playing RPIs now than there were ten years ago yet greater numbers of veterans leaving for reasons other than real life drawing them away. The veterans from years past didn't mind smaller playerbases and even though they wanted and are thrilled by increases in the number of players on the RPIs, some are also unhappy with either the measures taken to attract new players or the quality of the new players coming in via such measures. What you refer to as "stupid barriers to entry" are the very things that the veterans liked and when those things are tampered with you've effectively sold the baby to buy a crib.

What you suggest as a cure is in fact the cause of the problem. To attract more players including players like you, since you cited yourself in your example, the RPIs have tried to appeal to a broader base and in doing so have alienated some of the veteran players that otherwise would still be playing. The solution to keeping veteran RPI players is not to cater to players like you who are NOT veteran RPI players; it's to cater to those players, veteran included, who are seeking out the particular features of RPIs not found elsewhere. Ultimately if you have 100 potential players and only 10 of them prefer the characterstics of RPIs, they're a sure bet. No matter what you offer to the other 90 and no matter how much you make your RPI like other MUDs, they still have the option of going elsewhere for the same thing.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:18 AM   #171
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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heh heh so there are OOC chat channel, they are just outside the game and activly used huh? looks like a loophole to me, but I am being picky.
RPIs have no global OOC channels. EXTERNAL chat channels are no different than AIM, Skype or what have-you. None are a part of the game itself. When in the game, you have no distractions via such lines of communication.

Quote:
Thats what happens when there is no help, potential new blood leaves.
No, that's what happens when new players show up and don't read the help files or website documentation first. Players are just as responsible as staff in making sure that they're prepared to enter any RP game be it RPI or not.

Quote:
In game OOC help means noone has to leave the game to find it.
Websites and email don't require a player to leave the game, just to post their questions in a manner which doesn't intrude into the game itself. Staff (and plenty of players as well) can thus answer their questions without distracting players in-game.

Quote:
Tunable OOC channel are an asset, not having them is a barrier.
As most veteran RPI players are on RPIs because they DO NOT WANT OOC chatter in-game and such channels can be tuned out who's going to see them and respond? They just serve as an irritant to players who haven't yet turned them off, end up being used by players who don't have any more answers than those asking the questions or worse end up being used for non-help related OOC.

Back in 2006 I recall a RPE that called itself RPI claiming that global OOC channels were not abused on their game and an asset, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. When I checked their game out for a potential review for the old RPIMUD.com I saw a forum post mentioning that the in-game OOC help channel had been turned off "again" because of abuse. Not only was the very thing they were claiming impossible happening, it was happening repeatedly during the same time they were arguing that it didn't happen! Hence I take most claims of "it isn't abused" with a grain of salt. The sad reality is that there are always players who will abuse any option they can if they feel it's to their advantage. My philosophy, shared by the RPIs as one reason for the lack of global OOC channels, is why give such players another means of abuse/twinkery?

Quote:
Sorry, but have you read any of the posts by 'veterans'? They tell me a different story. I can only go by what I am reading, not personal experience.
The characteristics of RPIs whether it's permadeath or the lack of global OOC channels aren't the problems with veterans dropping out. By definition they wouldn't be veterans if they hadn't been playing for a while and thus those characteristics would not only be familiar to them but probably desired if they continued to play for as long as many in question have.

It seems some of the arguments in this thread have been by non-RPI people complaining about the features of RPI MUDs. These arguments don't hold water because these features are not new; they've been a part of RPIs since RPIs have existed, ie. nearly two decades now. To find the reason for veterans leaving besides life dragging them away, you have to look at conditions or behavior or trends which have surfaced or been introduced in the last decade that might have precipitated such disgruntlement.

As I cited for myself, the lack of enforcing the setting and gameworld in order to placate newbies who while new to RPIs are not new to MUDs has been one of the things that has irritated me. The increased attention and emphasis paid to playerbase figures instead of role-play capabilities is another. Additionally, lazy or incompetant staff who sometimes show favoritism has been a factor as well. While this last one is not unique to RPIs, RPI players are often very discriminating in what they expect out of a game and when given a choice between putting up with something or going somewhere else, some will choose the latter. However, the RPI community being comprised of very few games (throughout its entire two-decade history there have never been more than six open RPIs at any time and most of the time no more than four), if the others didn't meet their taste setting-wise or were equally plagued by such problems the only remaining option for veterans was to simply quit MUDding altogether. That has been what I've seen from numerous veterans recently (by recently, I mean in the last three to four years).

Quote:
I personally think RPI should stand for 'Role Play Inflexible'
If you don't like RPIs, that's your business but insults and name calling are hardly necessary. If they're not to your taste, move on along to another thread instead of simply attempting to provoke flames.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:28 AM   #172
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Thanks for saving me the time of writing up responses Prof.

Though I will add, I've been playing RPIs for upwards of seven or eight years now.

And I've noticed a slow, but steady increase in average PCs online during peak and off-peak hours.

There was once a time when only three or four others at max were online at four in the morning.... Now the number is often in the range of 6-13 off-peak.

So....

"Veteran RPI Players" can post all they want about how there's some mass exodus of players, but from where I'm sitting, I haven't seen much of it.

::Edited to add::

And yeah, we're not Nazis about OOC communication (unless it's about IG secrets and whatnot), we're just Nazis about OOC communication -within the game itself-.

We -do- have very active forums with which to hobnob with other players, after all.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:47 AM   #173
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by Qzzrbl View Post
There was once a time when only three or four others at max were online at four in the morning.... Now the number is often in the range of 6-13 off-peak.

So....

"Veteran RPI Players" can post all they want about how there's some mass exodus of players, but from where I'm sitting, I haven't seen much of it.
The point is not that there's a mass exodus of players from RPIs but rather a departure of veteran players for reasons OTHER than life's normal distractions. With them often goes the knowledge and experience necessary to maintain the gameworld effectively and guide new players through example.

I recently saw a staff member on one of the RPIs post on their forums answering a couple of questions from a newbie. One of the questions was poorly answered, failing to provide adequate information to illustrate the reasoning behind what the newbie was asking about. The other response was 100% wrong. Not a little wrong, not missing a piece of information or even light on detail. 100% WRONG. A staff member should NEVER know so little about an aspect of their game as to be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG IN EVERY WAY both in regard to the cultural details and to the history within the game itself. It's inexcusable and I can only assume the reason that no other staff member or even a remaining veteran player corrected the error is because they either didn't notice it or didn't know any better themselves. That is the problem with veteran players leaving RPIs. Staff recruitments come from the less qualified, newer players and without veterans to guide them, the problem of ignorance just snowballs.

So even with increases in overall playerbase totals, the problem is the decrease in the key demographic of veteran players with the knowledge and experience to maintain the level of quality in the game and the community.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:52 AM   #174
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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I had water, a rented room and was ready to go.. I went, I died, I left out of frustration as there was no way I was investing time creating a fourth character.
Another thing that gets alot of new players....

Games like Armageddon are -hard-.... It's a harsh, gritty world, and all of the things that can kill you -vastly- outnumber all of the things that can save you.

From what I could guess, you didn't read over all of the documentation.

I'll be honest, my very first experiences with Armageddon were very much the same....

I was a total ubernoob, and I came because my old home mud (age of legends) had closed down. Was your typical H&S where roleplay was listed as enforced, but it wasn't really enforced. YET I DIGRESS!

Here's the story.... My first character ever actually had -metal- in his main description.

He was promptly rejected, as stated in the documentation, metal is crazyrare.

So I try again, no metal. I get accepted-- awesome. He was a half-elf ranger.

Wound up meeting some guy who tried hiring me into his little band of raiders.... So I joined up, with nothing better to do.

Later on, he logs out, and I leave the gates of Tuluk to go hunting, and get me some EXP so I can level up and be awesome.

I get torn to shreds by a pack of gortoks.

Undaunted, I nearly copy/pasted my char's description and background again, to get accepted by the imms who surely recognized a confused noob.

I go find the raider guy and talk to him again, subtlety telling him my previous character had died (Man, you saw the body of that guy with <insert sdesc keyword here>? Sucks for him-- Say, I'm looking for a job.)

So the guy hires -this- incarnation of the char again.

After we talk some and I left, I decided to try something a little "easier".... Like a child!

So I attacked a kid and got swarmed by guards, and killed.

At that point, I thought, "wtf, this is bull****, **** this game!"

And left.

Four years later, out of boredom, I give it another go.

Wound up meeting some cool people, getting great interactions, learned the game, read all the docs back and front-- been hooked ever since.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:55 AM   #175
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
The point is not that there's a mass exodus of players from RPIs but rather a departure of veteran players for reasons OTHER than life's normal distractions. With them often goes the knowledge and experience necessary to maintain the gameworld effectively and guide new players through example.

I recently saw a staff member on one of the RPIs post on their forums answering a couple of questions from a newbie. One of the questions was poorly answered, failing to provide adequate information to illustrate the reasoning behind what the newbie was asking about. The other response was 100% wrong. Not a little wrong, not missing a piece of information or even light on detail. 100% WRONG. A staff member should NEVER know so little about an aspect of their game as to be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG IN EVERY WAY both in regard to the cultural details and to the history within the game itself. It's inexcusable and I can only assume the reason that no other staff member or even a remaining veteran player corrected the error is because they either didn't notice it or didn't know any better themselves. That is the problem with veteran players leaving RPIs. Staff recruitments come from the less qualified, newer players and without veterans to guide them, the problem of ignorance just snowballs.

So even with increases in overall playerbase totals, the problem is the decrease in the key demographic of veteran players with the knowledge and experience to maintain the level of quality in the game and the community.
Aaaah, I see, I see....

Most vets I've seen leave were because of RL....

But then again, you rarely even know when veteran players leave.

Either way though, many of the remaining vets are doing their part to preserve what they can, and more often than not, new players catch on and follow their examples.

Last edited by Qzzrbl : 10-07-2010 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:17 PM   #176
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I died on average 2-3 times a week on Armageddon for my first year or two. I think I had accumulated over 400 characters easily. And I had multiple accounts for a while. I can't really count how many characters I've had because I used to die so much.

What can I say? I was a late bloomer and had a hack and slash mentality about everything for a long time. The patience of the staff early on let me grow into a more mature roleplayer and eventually I had characters that would last for RL years.

I did some research and Qzzrbl, you would probably freak out if I told him that we've played together in the past 2 years with a certain long lived character.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:03 PM   #177
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

I'll continue to avoid the contention and arguments, because it's a never-ending cycle on these forums when it comes to flame wars over the definition of an RPI. I will, however, momentarily jump back into the mix.

Players have come and gone on RPI MUDs, because as younger players got older, they got wrapped up in real life and had less energy (or time) to play a game that is pretty demanding on your time. That is a flaw of an RPI; it is difficult to play casually, unless you desire to play an entirely social character that does not need to be wrapped up in ongoing plot.

Players have also continued to find RPIs, and there are as many RPIs with as strong of playerbases now as ever.

<another plug for Atonement>If you are an RPI Veteran, it is very likely that you will like Atonement. It's where many ex-SOI and ex-ARM Vets have gone. I can assume its originality and fresh face are reasons for their patronage, but I'd like to think that we do some things right that other RPIs have not managed to do (at least, in recent years). That's obviously personal bias, but our playerbase seems to agree. </another plug for Atonement. Why? Because it's really that good - and I believe that its inception, direction and success is actually meaningful to this thread.>

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Old 10-07-2010, 06:33 PM   #178
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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I'll continue to avoid the contention and arguments, because it's a never-ending cycle on these forums when it comes to flame wars over the definition of an RPI. I will, however, momentarily jump back into the mix.

Players have come and gone on RPI MUDs, because as younger players got older, they got wrapped up in real life and had less energy (or time) to play a game that is pretty demanding on your time. That is a flaw of an RPI; it is difficult to play casually, unless you desire to play an entirely social character that does not need to be wrapped up in ongoing plot.

Players have also continued to find RPIs, and there are as many RPIs with as strong of playerbases now as ever.

<another plug for Atonement>If you are an RPI Veteran, it is very likely that you will like Atonement. It's where many ex-SOI and ex-ARM Vets have gone. I can assume its originality and fresh face are reasons for their patronage, but I'd like to think that we do some things right that other RPIs have not managed to do (at least, in recent years). That's obviously personal bias, but our playerbase seems to agree. </another plug for Atonement. Why? Because it's really that good - and I believe that its inception, direction and success is actually meaningful to this thread.>
Yeah, I was pretty impressed with how many people flocked to Atonement.
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:16 PM   #179
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

Speaking as a longtime Armageddon player and staffer who has been retired for about 5 years now:

Real life interfered for me. I had two children, got a serious, consuming job, and just started being way too busy to dedicate the amount of time and effort I dedicated to a mud.

I still love the game and read the boards from time to time (and from what I can tell, the game is still alive and kicking and doing just fine thank you very much). I still read topmudsites on occasion to see what's happening in the mudding world.

My gaming now consists of meeting with a group for 4th Ed. D&D once every two weeks. That gives me my fix without taking over my life (which, sadly, is what happened when I was mudding).
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:23 AM   #180
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Re: Veterans of Roleplay Intensive MUDs

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<another plug for Atonement>If you are an RPI Veteran, it is very likely that you will like Atonement. It's where many ex-SOI and ex-ARM Vets have gone. I can assume its originality and fresh face are reasons for their patronage, but I'd like to think that we do some things right that other RPIs have not managed to do (at least, in recent years). That's obviously personal bias, but our playerbase seems to agree. </another plug for Atonement. Why? Because it's really that good - and I believe that its inception, direction and success is actually meaningful to this thread.>
Atonement sounds awesome, and from the guest login wandering and the stories on the website drips atmosphere and potential, but why plug a game that isnt actually accepting new players at the moment.. thats like dangling a carrot and when the donkey goes for a bite he smashes his nose on the bulletproof (donkey proof?) glass that is in the way



Oh, and now I am older and more patient, I will give Arm another go, just re-reading all the docs... again

BUT liking the games and being impressed with them as I do love RP and a good read does not mean I think it is fair for them to keep the term RPI as their own
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