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Old 06-29-2002, 03:40 PM   #1
Artovil
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Unhappy

Hello,

I have had a plethora of builders wander through my builder port in the past years, and very few of them have actually made anything worthwhile, sad enough.  I have come to the point where I am seriously considering paying builders to make areas they would otherwise make for free.  My intention is not to buy the rights to the work, the area would still follow common area agreements as discussed in the post regarding Area rights in this forum, or something similar to it.

Since I run this mud for sheer pleasure, and utilize a codebase that prevents me from making any profit, I cannot pay a decent writer's salary, which I hope builders can understand.  I already have enough to shell out when it comes to hosting fees and all the other little things that require attention, time, and effort.  I don't want to make profit, I just want to provide a gaming experience that players will enjoy, and something I can be proud of, something I can say "We made this!" about when people ask about it.

So, basically, my idea was that by doing this the work done by builders will have a slightly higher quality, and both the staff and the builder can feel like they have actually gotten something out of the whole deal.

I am just curious as to what other people say about this idea.  I am sure that others do the same, but what about the price, how much should I pay them, and bear in mind, I have no money to spare, really, but I am on a mission here, and I am going to come through all means necessary.  So, if you have a spare moment, please give some input.

Warm regards,
Torgny
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Old 06-29-2002, 05:55 PM   #2
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Heya,

I wonder if it would help. But if it does, I say don't pay them too much and they might make alot of rooms, but on the other side won't they get generic?

Good thing is that builders would feel a bit more appreciated. And might put in some extra time. But will it get better? I doubt it.

Greetings Dre
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Old 06-29-2002, 06:04 PM   #3
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I'd go for a max amount of $100 and approval of each room as the head builder sees fit for the theme of the mud and the zone in question.  Payment would be received per agreement with the builder and the administrator, either in batches as he/she finishes rooms, or all at once when the requested rooms or the max limit ($100) has been reached.
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Old 06-29-2002, 06:07 PM   #4
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While I understand your dilemma, I'm not sure that paying builders is a good idea for the community. There are tons of competent, reliable, dedicated builders who build as a cherished hobby instead of a supplemental income source. I would rather put funds into rewarding the beleagured administrative and coding staff like a bonus, rather than sink that into a pure paid building staff.

The logistics of it would become a nightmare too. How would you keep track of rooms built to standard especially if a plethora of builders flock to your world for the coins? Tabulating what you owed each for services rendered would always be a contention as well as seriously hold legal issues for minors, taxation, employment benefits etc.

While I realize you would classify it as like paying a babysitter or a kid to mow your lawn, but given the issues of authorship and contractual service added to that, it could get really sticky.

My two cents, I'm sure others will have some enlightening comments on this subject.
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Old 06-29-2002, 06:18 PM   #5
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Old 06-29-2002, 06:39 PM   #6
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Why not pay them -in- the mud? Or is that something you've already tried? That way it promotes the builders to be players as well.

Cormac
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Head Builder (looking for mortal builders)
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Old 06-29-2002, 07:04 PM   #7
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Personally I would say you should stick with not paying them.  But I think you are probably past that point so I think you need some sort of quality control for what you are purchasing. For example setting forth ALL of your requirements for a room description in a document. Additionally the rooms you actually pay for should be polished and not need much editing otherwise you are paying builders AND fixing their work which in my opinion is not very efficient. Good luck!
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Old 06-29-2002, 09:23 PM   #8
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In pay-for-play games, builders generally don't get paid. Instead, they get a free account in exchange for their work as a GameMaster, which they can use to create a normal character and play just like the paying customers do.

Since you won't be charging anything for your game, or accepting donations to earn any kind of profit, there should be no obligation, whether real or assumed, on your part to compensate anyone for building.

Further, a builder will be good or bad regardelss of what he's paid. If you offer cash, you may end up with dozens of people with little or no skill in writing flocking to your game just to get a piece of the pie. Do you really want to spend all day wading through the muck in search of a single gold nugget?

You're better off asking for quality builders and expecting them to want to work for the sheer joy of it. Also, I have to wonder what the theme of your mud is, if you are having so much trouble finding builders for it. You mentioned it was fairly narrow, but didn't specify. Would you mind divulging it here?
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Old 06-30-2002, 05:13 AM   #9
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Old 06-30-2002, 05:14 AM   #10
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Old 06-30-2002, 01:30 PM   #11
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Wink

As a head builder where I am I can commiserate with the lack of quality in room descriptions. I state what I expect of my builders while I am interviewing them. I usually talk with them inside my office and use my own areas as examples of what I mean. I am a stickler for spelling and grammar etc.
If they are not agreeable to what I expect we part ways not hard feelings. Of late I have had builders who are just learning to build or were mortal builders and never had imm commands apply. We have decided that our staff is full enough right now and I am turning people like these away simply because my plate is full with doing my own areas, checking other areas, and other assorted administrative duties.

I cannot afford to pay builders and I do not expect to be paid. If you state your expectations before you hire them and make it clear on keeping areas that stay with the theme of the game, you may have to turn away some people but it helps you weed out the "twink" builders who just want to powertrip.

Just my thoughts. I didn't vote cuz you didn't have the option for No, it should be because they want to contribute to a game they love.
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Old 06-30-2002, 02:46 PM   #12
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Old 06-30-2002, 03:36 PM   #13
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If I were considering building on a CircleMUD, I too would ask for DG Scripts. I consider adding scripts to my areas essential for building good areas. They are the only way to give fairly static areas a dynamic feel. This is not an unreasonable request for any builder to make. Testing for trustworthiness is one of the reasons to have a builders port and proof areas. I don't think its a reason to cripple builders by removing the ability for them to help their areas come to life with DG Scripts. I would be surprised if you found any quality builders that did not consider scripting functionality (DG Scripts) a necessity for building a good area.

Neranz Laverani, Seeker of Knowledge.
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Old 06-30-2002, 03:40 PM   #14
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Usually I explain to those that want DG Scripts that they will get the rights to the script editor as soon as they have a fairly finished area with room descriptions. Would that be considered an unreasonable request? If you don't have an area, you can't script anything. Any sensible builder maps and writes the world first, then they add mobiles, objects, shops, and scripts. I have rarely seen any "quality" builder do it the other way around, unless they specifically requested to write only DG Scripts and nothing else.
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Old 06-30-2002, 04:51 PM   #15
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The quote below from an earlier post made it seem like you didn't want to give builders DG Scripts at all:

There is no reason to keep DG Scripts from builders that have an assigned area on a builders port.

----

I plan the area, make the backbone of the area (rooms with sector types, exits, etc, but no descriptions), then I make the room descriptions, mobs, objects, shops, scripts and loads room by room. It is easier, in my opinion, to make everything at once instead of revisiting each room five times just for the rough draft. There are many different approaches that "sensible" builders take. It might be helpful for you to query the building community and find some more ideas outside your own of what are "sensible" methods to building.

I can imagine that you are frazzled from the lack of builders. Perhaps you are writing in the heat of the moment. Your posts, however, display four things that could drive builders away during interviews:

Builders dont need DG Scripts (before rebuttal)
Builders just want to cheat and mess around
There is only one sensible method of building that builders must use to be a quality builder (could infer that they have to build that way)
Builders are limited to a strict theme (acceptable if known in advance, one more thing against tally though)

In general, it just seems like you neither like nor trust builders. It is difficult to tell in text if this is the way that you feel or if that insinuation was unintentional. Whichever the case though, if you are as coarse in interviews as you are here, you may be driving quality builders away.

Much like builders benefit from planning areas, administrators benefit from planning interviews. Write out what is important to you and compile a list of questions and tests before interviews. Some people just come across too rough too wing it. I will freely admit to being one of those people. From reading your posts, I think you may be too. This could be part of your problem in hiring builders.

Neranz Laverani, Seeker of Knowledge
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Old 06-30-2002, 06:12 PM   #16
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Old 06-30-2002, 06:57 PM   #17
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Old 06-30-2002, 06:59 PM   #18
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Old 07-02-2002, 01:49 PM   #19
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Old 07-02-2002, 02:07 PM   #20
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It's quite hard to reproduce the problem, but it's lurking around somewhere on my todo list. So far I have not seen anybody retarded or smart enough to have been able to accomplish this stunning feat, except for that single builder.

Anyway, I see what you are saying... I will refrain from advertising that I would be willing to compensate builders with monetary means. Perhaps another gem will wash up on my beach soon. I keep hoping and trying my best to provide the best kind of service I possibly can.
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