Advertising for Players

KaVir · 03-16-2006, 06:40 PM

You're still not listening.

"Many people have reimplemented computer programs by rewriting them to replace the source code with code of their own writing. There is no reason to believe that this would not be a copyright infringement, particularly if the reimplementer had access to the source code of the original program, even if none of the original source code remains."

You'd be better off sticking to your "We can get away with it" line.

Valg · 03-16-2006, 06:50 PM

No one is claiming Medievia is MERC. Independent code audits have, however, confirmed that it is a MERC derivative. As such, you are legally subject to the license, including the display of the original authors.

Which of the following are you claiming?
1) Medievia was never based on MERC.
2) You've modified the code a lot, therefore you aren't a derivative. (Hint: This isn't true, no matter how many lines change.)
3) You're a derivative, but the license doesn't apply.
4) The license applies, but you are within it.
5) The license applies, and you are violating it.

Call me curious.

DonathinFrye · 03-16-2006, 07:03 PM

Summary; Midievia's unethical. We like to educate. You don't care about the educated players who don't play your MUD - you'd prefer the uneducated, apathetic, unethical, or drone-players to populate your illegally operated game. Kudos.

Summary Part Two; I'm really glad that Iron Realms has created more flexible payment options for its loyal customers. I want to help advertise this new, wonderful improvement for IRE customers. Even if 3/4ths of the IRE games advertise themselves in such a way as to make them look just as free as games like Carrion Fields, with only technicality and syntax as their defense. Good job, IRE! Payment options, woohoo!

Baram · 03-16-2006, 07:41 PM

Carrion Fields, "Completely Free"

IRE games, "Free to Play"

Two different meanings, both accurately describing what they are. Problem solved.

malaclypse · 03-16-2006, 08:05 PM

Incidentally, just today Ubisoft announced that Shadowbane is now free to play. They used the industry standard version of free that is being called into question by Carrion fields and cohorts.

Here's a link:

- Ryan

Lisaera · 03-16-2006, 08:13 PM

I find it truly amazing that a simple announcement post regarding some new options IRE has added to its credit-buying business model can turn into a 9 page thread about something that has been discussed more often than abortion.

Traveler · 03-16-2006, 08:16 PM

A 'free to play' game with a 'buying business model'. Now that is funny.

Baram · 03-16-2006, 08:18 PM

How so? You can play it for free, or buy things...

DonathinFrye · 03-16-2006, 08:25 PM

It's not that amazing. Forums are notorious for easily getting off-topic - and the (c'mon, you have to admit it's true) comedical irony of IRE advertising a new payment option was worth a ironic poke or two. Matt's defensive and self-righteous nature is what started the thread's snowballing.

Lisaera · 03-16-2006, 08:50 PM

At the risk of continuing this thread's ludicrous slaloming... no, I really don't see how it IS that funny as everyone knows what the deal is with IRE: if you want to pay, you can, if you don't, you don't have to.

These payment options are ways for those who DO want to pay to be able to do so more easily and efficiently. I didn't actually bother to read any of the thread as I've read its like umpteen times before, so I can't comment on who started the derailing this time.

DonathinFrye · 03-16-2006, 09:08 PM

the_logos · 03-16-2006, 09:17 PM

DonathinFrye · 03-16-2006, 09:25 PM

It really wouldn't affect me much since I'm very secure about my history with PvP consulting, designing, etc. I'd probably call you silly and talk about something more interesting. You chose to take what someone found funny(I found it humorous too, and I try to judge things fairly), and become defensive and insulting. You could've just laughed it off and avoided further negative public debate involving your company.

You didn't though, and here we are; you can't really make yourself out to be the victim. If you trip and fall into a puddle and I laugh - and then you punch me - I don't think anyone would say that I started the fight unless they were friends with you. Same thing here.

the_logos · 03-16-2006, 09:33 PM

In other words, you'd insult me back, having recognized that I just attacked you by saying you were "funny in a sad way." That's what I did. Was it the best course of action in response to a troll like Aarn? Probably not, but on the other hand, I get tired of their unprovoked attacks.

Now, of course, you're going to explain how calling someone 'silly' isn't an insult, and that you didn't really mean that's what you'd do, right?

--matt

jono · 03-16-2006, 11:26 PM

DonathinFrye · 03-17-2006, 05:37 AM

Nah, Matt - Jono's right. If I started a fight and slugged you in your face....... you'd probably feel very hesitant to join and support this cause. However, if you felt almost entirely supported and the pbase attempted to control subverted disastrous jaw-clenching action to support the dwingdling playerbase.

DonathinFrye · 03-17-2006, 05:42 AM

Not right. Your words speak as simply about my projects as I can consider. The ones that require logic, reasoning, planning, and playing require money to charge - or something else to offer. That is perfectly fine as PvP MUDs started offering something unique to cover their MUDs. In this case, it is the volcanoing of a larger project that is obviously supported.... a true supportee would not only volunteer energy to this project, they would volunteer effort/editing. This is why there is no large group with a market on solo performance.

prof1515 · 03-17-2006, 05:57 AM

Actually, Matt would trip, fall into the puddle, then claim he meant to do it because he's so used to lying that it's natural. Then he'd twist words to claim that he didn't fall ("fall is a season and you can't do a season"). Then, he'd probably verbally assault rather than physically assault (though given his lack of morals, who knows) someone for pointing out that it wasn't intentional.

Matt has to be defensive and lash out at people. He can't keep people interested in his VIAGRA MUDs forever. At some point, with the exception of the really pathetic ones, his "customers" realize that they were lied to and that there are vastly superior genuinely-free MUDs out there and that his sub-par crap isn't worth their time. So, he's got to constantly recruit new victims and that results in his defensive attacks on anyone who points out his dishonest advertising methods.

Sadly, his paranoia that some at TMS have a desire to put the community ahead of his selfishness scares him to no end. In fright and desperation, he lashes out. So he behaves like he does. It's sad, but it's of his own making. If he had confidence in his own games, he wouldn't need to take the kind of actions he does.

I'd suggest that his parents would be disappointed in his behavior if they read these forums, but they probably wouldn't be since they contributed to it by not doing a very good job raising him and spoiling him as a child. That's why he still acts like one today.

Take care,

Jason

Wedric · 03-17-2006, 08:37 AM

On the intended topic:

Matt, this change is awesome, thanks. Bought credits for the first time ever the other day with these new options. Much <3.

On the derailed topic:

Those of you crying about IRE games and their false advertising about free to play: I did some quick calculations with my main character on Aetolia (Wedric). His stats are below:

Skills Rank
------------ ------------
Vision Expert
Avoidance Capable
Tattoos Transcendent
Survival Transcendent
Weaponry Transcendent
Groves Transcendent
Metamorphosis Transcendent
Concoctions Transcendent

Miniskills Rank
------------- ------------
Constitution Capable
Thermology Capable
Frost Capable
Antidotes Capable
Fitness Gifted
Galvanism Adept
Philosophy Capable

Three artifact pipes, valued at 50 credits each.
And a 1600 credit player house.
To transcend a main skill, it costs roughly 300 credits.
Wedric's total worth in credits is around 3550 credits.

Now, the price of credits ranges from 66 cents to 29 cents. This means Wedric's worth in dollar value ranges from $2343 to $1029.50 USD.

As I stated before, until this week I have not spent a -cent-. Also keep in mind that this is just one of my characters. I have several more worth a bit.

Fact: IRE Games are free to play.
Fact: You can -choose- to pay to make life easier for you,
Fact: You can always put work in and achieve the same as spending $1000.

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03-16-2006, 06:30 PM	#81
Soleil Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 147

03-16-2006, 06:40 PM	#82
KaVir Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Name: Richard Home MUD: God Wars II Posts: 2,052	You're still not listening. "Many people have reimplemented computer programs by rewriting them to replace the source code with code of their own writing. There is no reason to believe that this would not be a copyright infringement, particularly if the reimplementer had access to the source code of the original program, even if none of the original source code remains." You'd be better off sticking to your "We can get away with it" line.

03-16-2006, 06:50 PM	#83
Valg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Home MUD: Carrion Fields Posts: 643	No one is claiming Medievia is MERC. Independent code audits have, however, confirmed that it is a MERC derivative. As such, you are legally subject to the license, including the display of the original authors. Which of the following are you claiming? 1) Medievia was never based on MERC. 2) You've modified the code a lot, therefore you aren't a derivative. (Hint: This isn't true, no matter how many lines change.) 3) You're a derivative, but the license doesn't apply. 4) The license applies, but you are within it. 5) The license applies, and you are violating it. Call me curious.

03-16-2006, 07:03 PM	#84
DonathinFrye Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Name: Donathin Frye Location: Columbus, OH Home MUD: Optional Realities Home MUD: Atonement RPI Home MUD: Project Redshift Posts: 510	Summary; Midievia's unethical. We like to educate. You don't care about the educated players who don't play your MUD - you'd prefer the uneducated, apathetic, unethical, or drone-players to populate your illegally operated game. Kudos. Summary Part Two; I'm really glad that Iron Realms has created more flexible payment options for its loyal customers. I want to help advertise this new, wonderful improvement for IRE customers. Even if 3/4ths of the IRE games advertise themselves in such a way as to make them look just as free as games like Carrion Fields, with only technicality and syntax as their defense. Good job, IRE! Payment options, woohoo!

03-16-2006, 07:41 PM	#85
Baram Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seoul Home MUD: Tears of Polaris Posts: 218	Carrion Fields, "Completely Free" IRE games, "Free to Play" Two different meanings, both accurately describing what they are. Problem solved.

03-16-2006, 08:05 PM	#86
malaclypse Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca Posts: 68	Incidentally, just today Ubisoft announced that Shadowbane is now free to play. They used the industry standard version of free that is being called into question by Carrion fields and cohorts. Here's a link: - Ryan

03-16-2006, 08:13 PM	#87
Lisaera Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 34	I find it truly amazing that a simple announcement post regarding some new options IRE has added to its credit-buying business model can turn into a 9 page thread about something that has been discussed more often than abortion.

03-16-2006, 08:16 PM	#88
Traveler Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 50	A 'free to play' game with a 'buying business model'. Now that is funny.

03-16-2006, 08:18 PM	#89
Baram Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seoul Home MUD: Tears of Polaris Posts: 218	How so? You can play it for free, or buy things...

03-16-2006, 08:25 PM	#90
DonathinFrye Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Name: Donathin Frye Location: Columbus, OH Home MUD: Optional Realities Home MUD: Atonement RPI Home MUD: Project Redshift Posts: 510	It's not that amazing. Forums are notorious for easily getting off-topic - and the (c'mon, you have to admit it's true) comedical irony of IRE advertising a new payment option was worth a ironic poke or two. Matt's defensive and self-righteous nature is what started the thread's snowballing.

03-16-2006, 08:50 PM	#91
Lisaera Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 34	At the risk of continuing this thread's ludicrous slaloming... no, I really don't see how it IS that funny as everyone knows what the deal is with IRE: if you want to pay, you can, if you don't, you don't have to. These payment options are ways for those who DO want to pay to be able to do so more easily and efficiently. I didn't actually bother to read any of the thread as I've read its like umpteen times before, so I can't comment on who started the derailing this time.

03-16-2006, 09:08 PM	#92
DonathinFrye Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Name: Donathin Frye Location: Columbus, OH Home MUD: Optional Realities Home MUD: Atonement RPI Home MUD: Project Redshift Posts: 510

03-16-2006, 09:17 PM	#93
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305

03-16-2006, 09:25 PM	#94
DonathinFrye Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Name: Donathin Frye Location: Columbus, OH Home MUD: Optional Realities Home MUD: Atonement RPI Home MUD: Project Redshift Posts: 510	It really wouldn't affect me much since I'm very secure about my history with PvP consulting, designing, etc. I'd probably call you silly and talk about something more interesting. You chose to take what someone found funny(I found it humorous too, and I try to judge things fairly), and become defensive and insulting. You could've just laughed it off and avoided further negative public debate involving your company. You didn't though, and here we are; you can't really make yourself out to be the victim. If you trip and fall into a puddle and I laugh - and then you punch me - I don't think anyone would say that I started the fight unless they were friends with you. Same thing here.

03-16-2006, 09:33 PM	#95
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305	In other words, you'd insult me back, having recognized that I just attacked you by saying you were "funny in a sad way." That's what I did. Was it the best course of action in response to a troll like Aarn? Probably not, but on the other hand, I get tired of their unprovoked attacks. Now, of course, you're going to explain how calling someone 'silly' isn't an insult, and that you didn't really mean that's what you'd do, right? --matt

03-16-2006, 11:26 PM	#96
jono New Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4

03-17-2006, 05:37 AM	#97
DonathinFrye Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Name: Donathin Frye Location: Columbus, OH Home MUD: Optional Realities Home MUD: Atonement RPI Home MUD: Project Redshift Posts: 510	Nah, Matt - Jono's right. If I started a fight and slugged you in your face....... you'd probably feel very hesitant to join and support this cause. However, if you felt almost entirely supported and the pbase attempted to control subverted disastrous jaw-clenching action to support the dwingdling playerbase.

03-17-2006, 05:42 AM	#98
DonathinFrye Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Name: Donathin Frye Location: Columbus, OH Home MUD: Optional Realities Home MUD: Atonement RPI Home MUD: Project Redshift Posts: 510	Not right. Your words speak as simply about my projects as I can consider. The ones that require logic, reasoning, planning, and playing require money to charge - or something else to offer. That is perfectly fine as PvP MUDs started offering something unique to cover their MUDs. In this case, it is the volcanoing of a larger project that is obviously supported.... a true supportee would not only volunteer energy to this project, they would volunteer effort/editing. This is why there is no large group with a market on solo performance.

03-17-2006, 05:57 AM	#99
prof1515 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 791	Actually, Matt would trip, fall into the puddle, then claim he meant to do it because he's so used to lying that it's natural. Then he'd twist words to claim that he didn't fall ("fall is a season and you can't do a season"). Then, he'd probably verbally assault rather than physically assault (though given his lack of morals, who knows) someone for pointing out that it wasn't intentional. Matt has to be defensive and lash out at people. He can't keep people interested in his VIAGRA MUDs forever. At some point, with the exception of the really pathetic ones, his "customers" realize that they were lied to and that there are vastly superior genuinely-free MUDs out there and that his sub-par crap isn't worth their time. So, he's got to constantly recruit new victims and that results in his defensive attacks on anyone who points out his dishonest advertising methods. Sadly, his paranoia that some at TMS have a desire to put the community ahead of his selfishness scares him to no end. In fright and desperation, he lashes out. So he behaves like he does. It's sad, but it's of his own making. If he had confidence in his own games, he wouldn't need to take the kind of actions he does. I'd suggest that his parents would be disappointed in his behavior if they read these forums, but they probably wouldn't be since they contributed to it by not doing a very good job raising him and spoiling him as a child. That's why he still acts like one today. Take care, Jason

03-17-2006, 08:37 AM	#100
Wedric New Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Home MUD: Aetolia Posts: 3	On the intended topic: Matt, this change is awesome, thanks. Bought credits for the first time ever the other day with these new options. Much <3. On the derailed topic: Those of you crying about IRE games and their false advertising about free to play: I did some quick calculations with my main character on Aetolia (Wedric). His stats are below: Skills Rank ------------ ------------ Vision Expert Avoidance Capable Tattoos Transcendent Survival Transcendent Weaponry Transcendent Groves Transcendent Metamorphosis Transcendent Concoctions Transcendent Miniskills Rank ------------- ------------ Constitution Capable Thermology Capable Frost Capable Antidotes Capable Fitness Gifted Galvanism Adept Philosophy Capable Three artifact pipes, valued at 50 credits each. And a 1600 credit player house. To transcend a main skill, it costs roughly 300 credits. Wedric's total worth in credits is around 3550 credits. Now, the price of credits ranges from 66 cents to 29 cents. This means Wedric's worth in dollar value ranges from $2343 to $1029.50 USD. As I stated before, until this week I have not spent a -cent-. Also keep in mind that this is just one of my characters. I have several more worth a bit. Fact: IRE Games are free to play. Fact: You can -choose- to pay to make life easier for you, Fact: You can always put work in and achieve the same as spending $1000.

Advertising for Players

New payment options w/ Iron Realms