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Old 02-16-2003, 08:03 PM   #21
smadronia
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As an admin of an underdog mud that as this point isn't on the top 100 (it was a while ago), I have to say I like the idea. I do promotions for my mud, but I can only do so much, someone singling out my mud to point out one good feature gives me a leg up as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 02-16-2003, 08:32 PM   #22
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I didn't say you were intending to slam the muds, I just said that that's how some people will interpret it. I also pointed out that you are free to make your posts regardless of how those people feel - although (as you are presumably trying to help these people) you need to realise that you're quite possibly going to cause offense.

The definition I took came from the Merrian Webster online dictionary (), but the two are close enough. You could just as easily use the definition of "loser":

1 : one that loses especially consistently
2 : one who is incompetent or unable to succeed; also : something doomed to fail or disappoint

Then just claim that you're following the first definition - which is almost invariable true in the context of these boards.

However you should remember that many people don't particularly care about the voting. They don't consider their mud to be a "loser" or an "underdog" just because they didn't get their votes up. Realms of Despair is rank 67, yet it has currently has around 400 players online, and I doubt it considers itself an "underdog".
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:53 PM   #23
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I have decided some of you people do not mud enough. You spend time instead nit picking over word definitions instead of honest judgement of situations. Brody did not by any written tone of voice or statement insult any of the MUDs he picked.

I assume people who play word games like this would be the same people who, if I made a post praising to the heavens certain things about the black community, would come down on me because I said black and not african-american or whatever the latest politically correct term is supposed to be.

Do certain words blind your judgement to the positive impact of such messages? If I say "Underdog", can you not stop yourself from finding some insult in it, even if I said your MUD was the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Use your reason and your heart. Someone who sacrifices his own time to promote lesser known muds is not insulting them.

And I still have yet to hear the creators from these MUDs say a thing about it. Looks like they aren't insulted by free advertising on Top Mud Sites either.
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Old 02-16-2003, 10:03 PM   #24
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Cool

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Old 02-16-2003, 11:32 PM   #25
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Old 02-16-2003, 11:38 PM   #26
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Exclamation

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Old 02-16-2003, 11:56 PM   #27
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Having official TMS reviews is something I've discussed with Synozeer, when the site goes through a redesign process it's something he's considering doing...
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:57 AM   #28
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Weird how people can turn a high-five into a kick in the nuts, eh?

Go Brody. I think it's a good idea, and applaud you for taking the time to do it. Cheers.

I think we all got what he meant by underdog as well, eh? Some people just gotta pick at things...

Once more, Brody, Rock on brotha.
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Old 02-17-2003, 04:43 AM   #29
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:45 AM   #30
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Informative (proper) reviews are great, and are frequently useful to prospective players. Something along these lines would be a very nice feature to have on TMS.

But such a review should actually give some information about the mud, not just say "this is a fantasy mud" and then try to get players to play it out of some sense of pity for this "poor unpopular mud". If I wanted to read posts like that, I'd go to the "rants & raves" section of TMS.

"Excuse me, Sir - do you think you could you spare a player? Our coder is sick, and our frail old builder is worn out from long hours in front of a screen, and we are only just able to cover the cost of our hosting provider with these food tokens, but we try to scrape by as best we can. Show some pity on a poor little mud?"

If stock muds have had to resort to begging to gather attention, then I can't help but shake my head in bemusement. But please, leave me and my muds out of it - I don't need sympathy or pity to attract players. If they're not interested in playing based on the quality of the game itself, then fair enough.
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Old 02-17-2003, 10:38 AM   #31
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Old 02-17-2003, 11:09 AM   #32
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No. So why portray them as beggers?

Picking muds at random is fine - but picking those you feel are losers^H^H^H^H^H^H"underdogs" is just insulting. It's like its some sort of consolation prize.

Exactly. So why portray them as such, rather than just writing reviews of randomly selected muds?

Exactly. So why imply that they are somehow inferior to the other muds?
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Old 02-17-2003, 11:23 AM   #33
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Old 02-17-2003, 11:41 AM   #34
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Cool

Good work, Brody. As a player on some of the lesser-known muds, it's good to see you're looking beyond the top 20 and giving recognition to the places some or most people have never heard of before. Even one of your top muds has caught my interest and am currently enjoying the experience there.

As for others, really...if a mud Brody picks as something he personally finds interesting...has a problem with him doing it, they may as well take it up with him. No need for people leaping to defend the "honor" of the little known muds when they didn't ask for it. They are capable of handling their own in that department, most likely.

Which, naturally, brings up: "Well, they can advertise on their own, too." Sigh.

These are Brody's personal picks and good for him. Yes, nobody asked him to do it. To me, it's become "mud awareness"...good for him. There's more to gaming than just the top 20.

If anything, this helps out the mud community.

And honestly, if a mud didn't want to be advertised, they wouldn't have listed with TMS in the first place.

So, unless the admin of one of these muds Brody brings up takes up issue with him, why stone him?

Good work again and I look forward to more.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:12 PM   #35
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John, I've never objected to people reviewing muds - and I agree that it's nice to give attention to those who aren't at the top of the list. All I've been saying is that there's no need to infer that those muds are "losers" just because they're not at the top of some vague popularity list. If you want to review them, then do so on their own merits, not out of pity - because any self-respecting mud shouldn't need to rely on sympathy to make itself stand out.

So in short, while I'm all for something like "hidden gems of the mud community" which lists various less-known muds and provides a clear review summarising what they have to offer, I find little benefit in a "loser of the day" award which doesn't even tell you why the mud is worth checking out.

Of course, for those people who's muds really don't have anything special to offer, I can certainly see why they're happy to be mentioned at all.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:15 PM   #36
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Fair enough Kavir. And I knew you hadn't objected.

err....gosh! you personally objected to this thread but didn't use your mod powers to do something about it. IMO that shows integreity.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:16 PM   #37
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Brody's INTENT was never to have the games looked at as a loser, and honestly, until someone brought up that connotation it wasn't even an issue...

Let it freaking drop, let Brody continue on with what he's doing, regardless of what he wants to call it, and freaking move on, there's honestly nothing left to debate on this topic.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:25 PM   #38
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But that's the way it comes across to a lot of people.

I've said from the start that it's up to him to post whatever he likes. I'm just pointing out that if he's trying to help people, he should reconsider the way he phrases his posts - because many people will take it as an insult.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:33 PM   #39
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I think everyone can stop pointing out things about the whole issue now honestly, the horse is dead. Brody has posted three Underdog Muds and we've already strung this out to 4 ages, that's really honestly sad...
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:37 PM   #40
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***Edited to stop the debate***
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