[jediwannabe]

Cheating on the top muds list has been something that has been debated for a while and lately im seeing how ridiculous its really getting.

I decided to browse through some of the muds the other day just to see how big the player base really is and the quality of the mud to be fitting for their spot on the ranking list. I was surprised

First I tried a mud called Turning Point. I logged on several times during the day but didn't seem to find anymroe than 6 people on at a time. For a MUD ranking 7th, I was a bit confused. But logging on as a new char, I'm bombarded with note after note after note requesting players to vote over and over and over.
Already I didnt really understand why a mud with such a low playerbase and was pretty stock ROM 2.3 could be so high ranking, so I went to their forums and saw posts like these:
Then I sign on Feudal Realms. Using telnet because I was being lazy, their character generation lineup was impossible with telnet. Why is it most muds don't account for people that may have to use telnet? Anyway, once my character was made, their greeting is full of advertisements to vote on TMS or to buy stuff online in their shop.

I guess I really dont understand why people are so desperate and advertise it so flagrantly. Where has good old fashioned mudding gone? People want as many players as possible with no quality

- James

[Wik]

It's understandable. High rankings=more exposure=more people to play the game. It just depends on what the particular mud's balance is between trying to get new players and not ****ing off the existing players. Also, it depends on the players' ability to ignore these messages. Maybe it's built up over time such that only bombarding the message boards produces any result anymore? Who knows.

However, incidents of cheating like this are another ballgame, and should be reported to Synozeer.

[the_logos]

Perhaps they simply don't let you see how many people are on? I've played muds where newbies in particular have no way to see how many people are on because, for instance, their 'who' command only reports characters specifically there to help newbies.

--matt

[Terloch]

Feudal Realms does have -one- blurb in our MOTD when you log in about voting on here, which was honestly requested by players to remind them to vote.

As for the shop URL, obviously it's not very effective, we've sold a whole nothing at the shop.

Don't assume that simply because we have a blurb in our message of the day that we are attempting to pull in quantity and not quality.

And as for muds which appear out of nowhere with small playerbases with huge vote totals, I'll leave that to Synozeer to look into...


Terloch

[Spazmatic]

While this is obviously a hideous hideous thing, I'm sure lots of people will respond. So, I will instead reply to:

Because Windows telnet is horrific. It doesn't implement codes correctly, and has a few other, specialized problems that can drive custom codebase builders nuts (drove me nuts for a while until I managed to encapsulate them away). Some of the Windows mud clients are just as bad. While it is possible to support all of these, it is fairly painful, and not something newbie admins, or even first/second year coders, are going to be able to do. You need some experience beyond muds (or with a custom codebase at that level) to be able to think these types of problems through properly.

[Tamsyn@zebedee.org]

[JilesDM]

Actually, I disagree. From what I've observed, the total MUD population seems to be increasing greatly. The problem (for some) is that it is becoming increasingly concentrated among fewer MUDs.

Windows telnet certainly is a contraption of Satan, noone will dispute that. However often the problem is as simple as coders using just "\n" rather than "\n\r" when they make the strings for new char creation. This sounds stupid but I have encountered it more than once. The result on Windows Telnet? Consider the string "A\nB\nC"...
on a normal client it will appear
A
B
C
on windows Telnet it will appear
A
B
C
Adding the \r will fix the problem on Windows telnet with no adverse affect to the other clients whatsoever. Anyway, I assure you that I remain,
your faithful and obedient servant,
Erdos

[HaiWolfe]

Something that I've always wondered about...

From the Rules page on TMS.
And yet, a certain top-ranking MUD blatantly offers in-game bonuses to people who vote for them on this site.  Every now and then, reminders pop up in the middle of gameplay urging players to vote and rewarding them with a boost to exp. gain when they comply.  Why has this been allowed for so long?

[Wik]

Probably because you never told Synozeer about it.

[the_logos]

Yeah, that's illegal and those muds clearly need banning. That hasn't been permitted on this site since January or February of this year.

--matt

[Maelgrim]

Getting back to the original post, there's a difference between reminding users to vote and offering IC incentives to do so.

Visibility on gaming sites creates an utter ****load of traffic for muds. For P2P muds, more traffic usually means lower prices for players (pennies from the many and all that) So it's in an admin/hoster's best intrests to remind players every now and then "Hey, this site exists, how about going and voting for us there"

But, as far as In game consequences for voting/not voting, I'm surprised admins who run their muds like that have any player base whatsoever.

Voting's a voluntary act, it should stay that way.

[Tavish]

Almost every business I've been apart of works in a very different manner.  Lower prices or discounted promotions were used to increase sluggish traffic.  When the traffic grows the prices are slowly (sometimes not so slowly) increased to account for higher overhead.
It is in their best interests to draw more players so they can generate more revenue.  It is in the player's best interest to draw more players to create a more dynamic world.  If the players wanted to do this, they should not need reminders of any sort.
I feel much the same way about the muds with constant reminders.  As a player I know it annoys me to no end and I usually end up not voting out of spite.  Are these messages wrong?  Absolutely not, as long as they follow the rules of the voting list then admins are free to advertise their game however they choose.  If it doesn't bothers the players then more power to them.

[the_logos]

Well, I don't even see how it could NOT be a voluntary act. I don't think any mud is likely to send men with clubs and guns to your house and make you vote.
--matt

[Brody]

[the_logos]

I think for my next online game, one of the line items in the budget is going to include fees to cover flights, hotels, and meals for Vinny the Butcher, whose responsibility will be, uh, persuading grief players to be less griefy.
---matt

[Xorith]

[Tavish]

I think we are saying the same thing.  My statement is contesting the previous idea that as a game's pbase grows they lower their prices since they are making more money.  I don't claim I speak for all p2p muds either, yet I have never heard of a game lowering its prices as the game grows (I'm sure there are instances I am unaware of) but instead must charge more in order to A) cover the new overhead created B) continue to evolve and market the game.




With perhaps the exception of Skotos (at the time) none of these games could claim to be lacking players.  The increases are all on account of the growing cost to support growing games.
ObGreed: Yes I am giving these companies the benefit of the doubt that the increases are not simply to raise profits.

[Xorith]

Just an update... I logged into Turning Point out of curiousity. I saw no posts on the message boards claiming what was said here. There IS a blurb at the top asking people to vote every 12 hours. There are 3 or 4 'notes' when you log in, but you have to read through them on your own. You're not 'bombarded' by them.

There were 23 people online when I logged in, at 11:30PM EST. This is quite a large number.

Aside from begging players to vote... I've not found anything that supports the accusations here. Of course, they could have always removed said posts from their forums... (Which you have to register in order to even view, and you don't see the rules until AFTER you register.)

At any rate. No evidence...

-- X

[jediwannabe]

well the post was removed but theyre at least talking about it on their forum. Even the owner is complaining about the rules. I just dont see why the rules aren't enforced on TMS.