MUD Administration

Cemm · 09-22-2002, 11:34 PM

This is pretty silly. We have a few hundred people voting as many times as is allowed by this ranking list to maintain an experience bonus granted by Achaea's staff for doing so.

When faced with either choosing to have an experience bonus or not, the vast majority of players will choose the experience bonus and go ahead and vote. They'll vote again and again to maintain it.

So we have 250 people from one MUD voting multiple times a day so they can stay ahead of a MUD with a 1000 people who occasionally vote on a rankings list. Sure, the smaller playerbase put in a position where they must vote to maintain their bonus will continue to beat out the larger playerbase who isn't in the same situation.

Yeah, if Simutronics staff decided to offer an experience bonus then DragonRealms and Gemstone III would have 20,000+ votes each tomorrow and likely end up crashing this website again. But really, what would that prove?

Since Simutronics won't stoop to that level, and neither will most of the rest of the MUDs here, Achaea is able to skew the votes and put themselves in a ranking they don't belong at. This ultimately makes a mockery of the rankings.

If you don't believe that this is the case, I challenge you to put an end to the bonus-for-votes and see what happens in the rankings over the next couple of months. Heck, I challenge you to advertise based on your games own merits without fudging or twisting around the truth at all.

What do I mean by twisting around the truth? The RPGPlanet claim is a great example of intentionally misleading statements. No member of RPGPlanet staff ever said that any MUD was 'the only MUD worth playing anymore'. There isn't even any mention anywhere on RPGPlanet of Achaea, much less that statement. Joining a forum and then making a statement about a game and then announcing, based on that post, that RPGPlanet says something...is fudging it a bit eh'?

Is the staff of this MUD just afraid that their game won't stand up to scrutiny on its own merits? Is the intentional running up of ranking votes, twisting of the truth where outrageous claims are concerned, and hiding from the potential reviews of its own playerbase really required? Are these the types of aspects that define 'the #1 MUD on the net'?

Well, if that's the case, then I couldn't be happier having been a customer of #2 and #3 for going on nine years now.

Cemm

sterling · 09-23-2002, 01:27 AM

Cemm, you do remember that Simultronics gave a *double* experience bonus during the week long period when they went from being attached to AOL to going to the web.

In my opinion, there's no difference. Simultronics gave a huge OOC bonus to get people to come over with their product from AOL, Achaea gives an ongoing bonus to maintain it's top spot on this list to encourage people to come to it.

Course, with the current Simultronics players bad mouthing Achaea left and right, the biggest difference I see is the level of hypocrisy over it.

MetaMAgus · 09-23-2002, 01:39 AM

Ike · 09-23-2002, 03:57 AM

pandora · 09-23-2002, 04:45 AM

It has to be said that if the issue has caused so many people to speak up, it must be doing something right? Achaea is number 1, everyone is talking about them and they are busy taking over the world as we speak!

Seriously though, this site is obviously well-watched by players and imms alike and it makes sense to try and be top in such an environment. Who can blame them? And I wouldn't imagine that giving a bonus to those who vote would affect any of the people here who do not play Achaea. In response, I expect you should all go and encourage your friends on your own MUD's to vote like crazy for them in the hope of overtaking them.

yig · 09-23-2002, 10:26 AM

It wouldn't seem so slimy if you had done it first. If your users were as dedicated as Achaea's they'd rush over to vote for you as well.

KaVir · 09-23-2002, 10:51 AM

Achaea has been listed here for a while, and hasn't done particularly well in terms of votes. A bribery system was set in place, and now Achaea is hundreds of votes ahead of everyone else. What do you think that tells you about the "dedication" of the players?

yig · 09-23-2002, 11:58 AM

This one, for example, had never heard of this site before that happened. I am sure I'm not the only one. They asked for votes without a bribe first and went from not listed to #3 in a week. The Xp bonus is a thanks,not a bribe.

Yuki · 09-23-2002, 12:38 PM

You know, I don't play DR, Achaeaea, or Gemstone, so... uhh... yah... anyways...

This is the natural order of things. When TMS was first around, my mud was generally in the top 10 regularly. Why? Our players showed support for us, simply because they were loyal. As larger muds showed up, it becomes harder and harder to maintain such positions, which reflects things rightly.

My beef would be the misrepresentation portion. Why? I had an advertizement post here quoting Bill Gates and some other Microsoft execs on how they had to beef up the specs of the X-Box to compete with my mud's server, since the X-Box and all it's super graphics capabilities just couldn't spit out text as well. I had some fun, full of misrepresentations, and the thread got yanked :P I didn't mind, I knew I was lying.

So, if say in a forum, or even a review, I state that my mud is the best mud ever, God himself handed me the codebase, and all the chinese are stomping on the earth to put it of orbit unless I give them access to my code, not to mention that in a world-wide poll, my mud was voted as the real key to world peace... uhh... then I went about making claims to such things and purporting them as factual information... doesn't it seem a bit silly and dumb?

I surely do.

The xp-voting thing: other people bribe people to vote. Some don't. If Synozeer says it's okay, then it's okay. I haven't seen a post from him saying not to. Sure, it skews the votes since DR and Gemstone are technically larger, but apparently Acheaea has this need, desire, to be number 1 along with some shady claims. Maybe not, just my take on it.

What I really liked was the idea that you take away the actual votes on the page (just from the viewers, maybe the mud administrators could view such things against others), and randomly load the top 20, perhaps 4-5 at a time, at the intro page. It gives people incentive to still crack the top 20, without amassing 200,923 votes, and I dunno, seems interesting.

The $$ idea seemed alright, but I highly doubt it'd affect much. Maybe it's time I started a mud forum for muds with 100 players or less *laugh* There's no way I can compete with these games, and that's fine.

I kind of likes the idea of Pay to Play muds having to pay for advertizing here too, but that's not my call. Sounds like a good idea though.

KaVir · 09-23-2002, 12:39 PM

It may well be a "thanks" - but it is also, by definition, a bribe.

yig · 09-23-2002, 12:56 PM

A by definition bribe which by definition "works." You're right, of course. But all the complaints seem like sour grapes.

Mason · 09-23-2002, 01:41 PM

Considering you just joined the forum, by my estimation, yesterday, you have a lot of nerve coming on here and telling an established board where certain people have been posting for years, what should and should not be allowed.

the_logos · 09-23-2002, 01:53 PM

You need to get your facts straight. Exactly one message, at maximum, is sent every 24 hours, the first time you gain xp in that 24 hours. Man, do some research before going off. Is it tacky? Maybe, but I really don't care. I read the topmudsites rules, and if any of you can point out which rule we're breaking, I'd be gratified. Otherwise, you're just wasting your breath as I'm only interested in the rules, not your opinion on what the rules should be.

And go ahead and offer an in-game incentive to vote. I, and I'm sure Adam, would be overjoyed at the extra traffic you'd bring to topmudsites, and as I'm sure some of the players you drove there would start playing Achaea and the other MUDs in the top 20, it benefits everybody. That's really what most of you seem to be missing. Topmudsites is a banner exchange, without the banner. The more traffic everybody drives to it, the more everybody wins.

You people need to ditch the ego issues you have, and look at what topmudsites actually is, not what you want it to be. It's nothing to do with which is the best MUD, and everything to do with giving the most exposure to the MUD that gives topmudsites.com the most exposure. It's really not a complicated concept.

In summary, bring on the competition, which will just send more customers our way.

--matt

the_logos · 09-23-2002, 02:21 PM

Once again, I will just say that I and anyone else for whom the rankings are not an ego thing, would welcome DragonRealms and Simutronics doing that. All it does is give the other MUDs on the list exposure to your entire, massive playerbase. You guys have great games, but it's inevitable that some of your players would find MUDs they want to play more. Similarly, some of our players will no doubt start playing your games upon seeing them on topmudsites.

The formula here is very simple, and I am sure you don't have any problem understanding it, which makes your objections a bit baffling. You bring Adam traffic which he can sell ads based on, Adam gives your MUD exposure. You bring Adam the most traffic, Adam gives you the most exposure. How can anyone possibly have a problem with that? It's utterly fair, and it makes utter sense from all points of view, and it's been going on for ages in the form of banner exchanges. This site is basically a form of centralized banner exchange.

And you know, I'm a little sick of the childish insults I'm seeing from you guys. I've refrained from saying anything back publically until now, because I have a lot of respect for David Whatley, Neil Harris, and Elonka Dunin, and your company generally, but you are the pot calling the kettle black here, friend. "Simutronics, the leader in online games since 1989." Leader in what way? You're a drop in the bucket compared to, say, NCSoft or Sony Online, Real Arcade, Yahoo games, Gamehouse, and so on. I wouldn't even mention it, because it's just advertising, except that you seem so willing to attack others.

And finally, are you seriously daring me? What is this, the playground? Give me a break. You obviously don't think much of me, but Achaea would not be the success it is if we altered our strategies based on some random person daring us to do something in a web forum.

--matt

the_logos · 09-23-2002, 02:46 PM

We reward people for clicking on a link on our site.
Topmudsites rewards MUDs for sending visitors to its site.

You claim people wouldn't vote as much if we didn't reward them.
I claim most ranked MUDs wouldn't send as many visitors (or any) here if topmudsites didn't reward them with exposure.

If we're engaged in bribery, then this entire site is, and every MUD listed on it is participating in bribing topmudsites to give them exposure.

In the end, you can call this entire site rewarding, or bribing. It doesn't really matter, as neither changes what it actually does. It's also worth pointing out that rewarding/bribing people to obtain actions desirable to you is what most economies are based on. I'm quite sure almost no one would show up at work without being bribed by a salary, for instance.

--matt

SimuBubba · 09-23-2002, 02:51 PM

Come now, Mason. Attacking someone because of the little number next to their name?

I'm sure you were new at some point, too. Can someone not express an opinion or make a statement until they get 100 posts under their belt? How should they go about getting those posts, then?

Cemm · 09-23-2002, 02:57 PM

Yeah, I'm seriously challenging you to continue your 'success' without making outrageous claims in other establshed people's names and abusing the mechanics of a ranking site to place your game in a position it doesn't belong.

A few hundred people voting over and over again to maintain their bonus in your game does not a lot of extra exposure for Adam make. All you're doing is skewing the results. It's unethical and cheap and childish (who has an ego here?), if not against any hard and fast rule.

Simutronics IS a good and strong company with an established record of excellence in their genre, and they've been recognized for that very real success in multiple places across the internet community. They didn't have to fudge anything either. These are actual reviews and accolades they've received from gaming sites and magazines that I'm referring to. If you'd like, I'm sure I could wander off and gather the links to twenty or so for your review.

They have been and remain the world leader in text-based multiplayer gaming for over a decade now. Can you name a single other text-based environment that even comes close to challenging their playerbase numbers, pay-to-play and free included?

I've never compared any text-based environment with graphical environments like Everquest and similar. They're apples and oranges. Oddly enough, when Simutronics recently decided to upgrade their subscription rates...guess who followed suit soon afterward?

The formula here IS very simple. As you've proven, it is also very simple to skew almost entirely out of whack. As I said before, having the same people vote over and over again does not a load of new exposure for Adam make. All it does, is make a mockery of this list. My perception is that that will ultimate HURT this list and its ability to advertise as people catch on and roll their eyes.

Finally, after reading several reviews of your game on our boards from players who have already made the leap over, I'm not even a little bit concerned about losing any of our playerbase to your MUD inparticular.

Cemm

SimuBubba · 09-23-2002, 02:57 PM

You offer a carrot for voting.

I said you offer a carrot for voting.

I also said if we offered a carrot, did any daily reminders, or more frequent (and thus annoying) reminders, we'd have lots more votes. We're not going to do that, however, because it's not in the spirit of the rules, in our opinion.

My facts are straight. ::shrug::

Again, we're not here to ruin anyone's game or anything like that. We're here to enjoy some exposure and open our game to other gamers.

In closing, I'm not here to rant and rave and have grumpy people whining about things. We have that on our own boards. I'll gladly participate in constructive conversations and dialogue, but this is just getting silly.

Mason · 09-23-2002, 02:58 PM

There is a difference between offering an opinion and telling people how a board should be run. This would be akin to me coming to your game and two days later, telling you how your game should be run. If you're telling me that you would give my opinion the same weight as someone who had played your game for five years, then your credibility is shot.

SimuBubba · 09-23-2002, 03:10 PM

In looking back over yig's three posts in this thread, I see no point where he's telling anyone how to do anything.

And now we're even farther off the original topic.

I listen to everyone who posts an opinion on our boards until they cause me to do otherwise. Lots of "newbies" have excellent opinions and ideas, just as lots of "old timers" who feel the need to preface every post with "I've been here for 6 years" have silly ones.

I don't automatically discount ANYONE'S opinions, just as I don't automatically give anyone else's more weight.

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09-22-2002, 11:34 PM	#61
Cemm New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 6	This is pretty silly. We have a few hundred people voting as many times as is allowed by this ranking list to maintain an experience bonus granted by Achaea's staff for doing so. When faced with either choosing to have an experience bonus or not, the vast majority of players will choose the experience bonus and go ahead and vote. They'll vote again and again to maintain it. So we have 250 people from one MUD voting multiple times a day so they can stay ahead of a MUD with a 1000 people who occasionally vote on a rankings list. Sure, the smaller playerbase put in a position where they must vote to maintain their bonus will continue to beat out the larger playerbase who isn't in the same situation. Yeah, if Simutronics staff decided to offer an experience bonus then DragonRealms and Gemstone III would have 20,000+ votes each tomorrow and likely end up crashing this website again. But really, what would that prove? Since Simutronics won't stoop to that level, and neither will most of the rest of the MUDs here, Achaea is able to skew the votes and put themselves in a ranking they don't belong at. This ultimately makes a mockery of the rankings. If you don't believe that this is the case, I challenge you to put an end to the bonus-for-votes and see what happens in the rankings over the next couple of months. Heck, I challenge you to advertise based on your games own merits without fudging or twisting around the truth at all. What do I mean by twisting around the truth? The RPGPlanet claim is a great example of intentionally misleading statements. No member of RPGPlanet staff ever said that any MUD was 'the only MUD worth playing anymore'. There isn't even any mention anywhere on RPGPlanet of Achaea, much less that statement. Joining a forum and then making a statement about a game and then announcing, based on that post, that RPGPlanet says something...is fudging it a bit eh'? Is the staff of this MUD just afraid that their game won't stand up to scrutiny on its own merits? Is the intentional running up of ranking votes, twisting of the truth where outrageous claims are concerned, and hiding from the potential reviews of its own playerbase really required? Are these the types of aspects that define 'the #1 MUD on the net'? Well, if that's the case, then I couldn't be happier having been a customer of #2 and #3 for going on nine years now. Cemm

09-23-2002, 01:27 AM	#62
sterling New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1	Cemm, you do remember that Simultronics gave a double experience bonus during the week long period when they went from being attached to AOL to going to the web. In my opinion, there's no difference. Simultronics gave a huge OOC bonus to get people to come over with their product from AOL, Achaea gives an ongoing bonus to maintain it's top spot on this list to encourage people to come to it. Course, with the current Simultronics players bad mouthing Achaea left and right, the biggest difference I see is the level of hypocrisy over it.

09-23-2002, 01:39 AM	#63
MetaMAgus New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3

09-23-2002, 03:57 AM	#64
Ike Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 62

09-23-2002, 04:45 AM	#65
pandora New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2	It has to be said that if the issue has caused so many people to speak up, it must be doing something right? Achaea is number 1, everyone is talking about them and they are busy taking over the world as we speak! Seriously though, this site is obviously well-watched by players and imms alike and it makes sense to try and be top in such an environment. Who can blame them? And I wouldn't imagine that giving a bonus to those who vote would affect any of the people here who do not play Achaea. In response, I expect you should all go and encourage your friends on your own MUD's to vote like crazy for them in the hope of overtaking them.

09-23-2002, 10:26 AM	#66
yig New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5	It wouldn't seem so slimy if you had done it first. If your users were as dedicated as Achaea's they'd rush over to vote for you as well.

09-23-2002, 10:51 AM	#67
KaVir Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Name: Richard Home MUD: God Wars II Posts: 2,052	Achaea has been listed here for a while, and hasn't done particularly well in terms of votes. A bribery system was set in place, and now Achaea is hundreds of votes ahead of everyone else. What do you think that tells you about the "dedication" of the players?

09-23-2002, 11:58 AM	#68
yig New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5	This one, for example, had never heard of this site before that happened. I am sure I'm not the only one. They asked for votes without a bribe first and went from not listed to #3 in a week. The Xp bonus is a thanks,not a bribe.

09-23-2002, 12:38 PM	#69
Yuki Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: My laptop, my apt, Columbus, Ohio, USA Posts: 42	You know, I don't play DR, Achaeaea, or Gemstone, so... uhh... yah... anyways... This is the natural order of things. When TMS was first around, my mud was generally in the top 10 regularly. Why? Our players showed support for us, simply because they were loyal. As larger muds showed up, it becomes harder and harder to maintain such positions, which reflects things rightly. My beef would be the misrepresentation portion. Why? I had an advertizement post here quoting Bill Gates and some other Microsoft execs on how they had to beef up the specs of the X-Box to compete with my mud's server, since the X-Box and all it's super graphics capabilities just couldn't spit out text as well. I had some fun, full of misrepresentations, and the thread got yanked :P I didn't mind, I knew I was lying. So, if say in a forum, or even a review, I state that my mud is the best mud ever, God himself handed me the codebase, and all the chinese are stomping on the earth to put it of orbit unless I give them access to my code, not to mention that in a world-wide poll, my mud was voted as the real key to world peace... uhh... then I went about making claims to such things and purporting them as factual information... doesn't it seem a bit silly and dumb? I surely do. The xp-voting thing: other people bribe people to vote. Some don't. If Synozeer says it's okay, then it's okay. I haven't seen a post from him saying not to. Sure, it skews the votes since DR and Gemstone are technically larger, but apparently Acheaea has this need, desire, to be number 1 along with some shady claims. Maybe not, just my take on it. What I really liked was the idea that you take away the actual votes on the page (just from the viewers, maybe the mud administrators could view such things against others), and randomly load the top 20, perhaps 4-5 at a time, at the intro page. It gives people incentive to still crack the top 20, without amassing 200,923 votes, and I dunno, seems interesting. The $$ idea seemed alright, but I highly doubt it'd affect much. Maybe it's time I started a mud forum for muds with 100 players or less laugh There's no way I can compete with these games, and that's fine. I kind of likes the idea of Pay to Play muds having to pay for advertizing here too, but that's not my call. Sounds like a good idea though.

09-23-2002, 12:39 PM	#70
KaVir Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Name: Richard Home MUD: God Wars II Posts: 2,052	It may well be a "thanks" - but it is also, by definition, a bribe.

09-23-2002, 12:56 PM	#71
yig New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5	A by definition bribe which by definition "works." You're right, of course. But all the complaints seem like sour grapes.

09-23-2002, 01:41 PM	#72
Mason Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 158	Considering you just joined the forum, by my estimation, yesterday, you have a lot of nerve coming on here and telling an established board where certain people have been posting for years, what should and should not be allowed.

09-23-2002, 01:53 PM	#73
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305	You need to get your facts straight. Exactly one message, at maximum, is sent every 24 hours, the first time you gain xp in that 24 hours. Man, do some research before going off. Is it tacky? Maybe, but I really don't care. I read the topmudsites rules, and if any of you can point out which rule we're breaking, I'd be gratified. Otherwise, you're just wasting your breath as I'm only interested in the rules, not your opinion on what the rules should be. And go ahead and offer an in-game incentive to vote. I, and I'm sure Adam, would be overjoyed at the extra traffic you'd bring to topmudsites, and as I'm sure some of the players you drove there would start playing Achaea and the other MUDs in the top 20, it benefits everybody. That's really what most of you seem to be missing. Topmudsites is a banner exchange, without the banner. The more traffic everybody drives to it, the more everybody wins. You people need to ditch the ego issues you have, and look at what topmudsites actually is, not what you want it to be. It's nothing to do with which is the best MUD, and everything to do with giving the most exposure to the MUD that gives topmudsites.com the most exposure. It's really not a complicated concept. In summary, bring on the competition, which will just send more customers our way. --matt

09-23-2002, 02:21 PM	#74
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305	Once again, I will just say that I and anyone else for whom the rankings are not an ego thing, would welcome DragonRealms and Simutronics doing that. All it does is give the other MUDs on the list exposure to your entire, massive playerbase. You guys have great games, but it's inevitable that some of your players would find MUDs they want to play more. Similarly, some of our players will no doubt start playing your games upon seeing them on topmudsites. The formula here is very simple, and I am sure you don't have any problem understanding it, which makes your objections a bit baffling. You bring Adam traffic which he can sell ads based on, Adam gives your MUD exposure. You bring Adam the most traffic, Adam gives you the most exposure. How can anyone possibly have a problem with that? It's utterly fair, and it makes utter sense from all points of view, and it's been going on for ages in the form of banner exchanges. This site is basically a form of centralized banner exchange. And you know, I'm a little sick of the childish insults I'm seeing from you guys. I've refrained from saying anything back publically until now, because I have a lot of respect for David Whatley, Neil Harris, and Elonka Dunin, and your company generally, but you are the pot calling the kettle black here, friend. "Simutronics, the leader in online games since 1989." Leader in what way? You're a drop in the bucket compared to, say, NCSoft or Sony Online, Real Arcade, Yahoo games, Gamehouse, and so on. I wouldn't even mention it, because it's just advertising, except that you seem so willing to attack others. And finally, are you seriously daring me? What is this, the playground? Give me a break. You obviously don't think much of me, but Achaea would not be the success it is if we altered our strategies based on some random person daring us to do something in a web forum. --matt

09-23-2002, 02:46 PM	#75
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305	We reward people for clicking on a link on our site. Topmudsites rewards MUDs for sending visitors to its site. You claim people wouldn't vote as much if we didn't reward them. I claim most ranked MUDs wouldn't send as many visitors (or any) here if topmudsites didn't reward them with exposure. If we're engaged in bribery, then this entire site is, and every MUD listed on it is participating in bribing topmudsites to give them exposure. In the end, you can call this entire site rewarding, or bribing. It doesn't really matter, as neither changes what it actually does. It's also worth pointing out that rewarding/bribing people to obtain actions desirable to you is what most economies are based on. I'm quite sure almost no one would show up at work without being bribed by a salary, for instance. --matt

09-23-2002, 02:51 PM	#76
SimuBubba New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 28	Come now, Mason. Attacking someone because of the little number next to their name? I'm sure you were new at some point, too. Can someone not express an opinion or make a statement until they get 100 posts under their belt? How should they go about getting those posts, then?

09-23-2002, 02:57 PM	#77
Cemm New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 6	Yeah, I'm seriously challenging you to continue your 'success' without making outrageous claims in other establshed people's names and abusing the mechanics of a ranking site to place your game in a position it doesn't belong. A few hundred people voting over and over again to maintain their bonus in your game does not a lot of extra exposure for Adam make. All you're doing is skewing the results. It's unethical and cheap and childish (who has an ego here?), if not against any hard and fast rule. Simutronics IS a good and strong company with an established record of excellence in their genre, and they've been recognized for that very real success in multiple places across the internet community. They didn't have to fudge anything either. These are actual reviews and accolades they've received from gaming sites and magazines that I'm referring to. If you'd like, I'm sure I could wander off and gather the links to twenty or so for your review. They have been and remain the world leader in text-based multiplayer gaming for over a decade now. Can you name a single other text-based environment that even comes close to challenging their playerbase numbers, pay-to-play and free included? I've never compared any text-based environment with graphical environments like Everquest and similar. They're apples and oranges. Oddly enough, when Simutronics recently decided to upgrade their subscription rates...guess who followed suit soon afterward? The formula here IS very simple. As you've proven, it is also very simple to skew almost entirely out of whack. As I said before, having the same people vote over and over again does not a load of new exposure for Adam make. All it does, is make a mockery of this list. My perception is that that will ultimate HURT this list and its ability to advertise as people catch on and roll their eyes. Finally, after reading several reviews of your game on our boards from players who have already made the leap over, I'm not even a little bit concerned about losing any of our playerbase to your MUD inparticular. Cemm

09-23-2002, 02:58 PM	#79
Mason Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 158	There is a difference between offering an opinion and telling people how a board should be run. This would be akin to me coming to your game and two days later, telling you how your game should be run. If you're telling me that you would give my opinion the same weight as someone who had played your game for five years, then your credibility is shot.

09-23-2002, 03:10 PM	#80
SimuBubba New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 28	In looking back over yig's three posts in this thread, I see no point where he's telling anyone how to do anything. And now we're even farther off the original topic. I listen to everyone who posts an opinion on our boards until they cause me to do otherwise. Lots of "newbies" have excellent opinions and ideas, just as lots of "old timers" who feel the need to preface every post with "I've been here for 6 years" have silly ones. I don't automatically discount ANYONE'S opinions, just as I don't automatically give anyone else's more weight.

MUD Administration

Achaea's latest attempt to claim #1