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Old 05-08-2005, 02:34 PM   #41
dragon master
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Soleil @ May 08 2005,15:02)
Ok, really last post...

Our lawyers HAVE looked at the license and have assured Mike that it is poorly written, full of holes, and could not stand up in court.  So, I really don't think there's anything to worry about there.

Happy Mother's Day!
So, if you can steal something without getting in legal trouble for it, you think there is nothing morally wrong with stealing it?

Maybe it's true that you have nothing to worry about legally, but morally it's another matter. It's great to see though, that all you worry about is covering your *** from the law and cashing in from other people's stolen property.

If the law can't do anything about it, then this is an example of a weakness of the law, not a strength of Medievia.
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:52 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by
Our lawyers HAVE looked at the license and have assured Mike that it is poorly written, full of holes, and could not stand up in court. So, I really don't think there's anything to worry about there.
Actually, there is something to worry about. That license was the only thing granting you any rights to use the work at all, and your decision to disregard it means you've rejected the terms, which means you have no rights under copyright law to use the code. Your lawyer should have told you this if he's worth one nickel of what you guys paid him for that oh so brilliant opinion.
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Old 05-08-2005, 05:58 PM   #43
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Just thought I'd add my voice to the list of people that would prefer TMS didn't accept money from lying thieves.

Personally, if I lived near you, Mike, I'd key your car and smack your kids on their way to school daily. You're in need of some serious karma and I hope you get everything that's coming to you. Here, have a smug smiley...
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:23 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Qud @ May 08 2005,11:39)
Seeing Medthievia here, however, made me quite upset.   I don't think they should be featured here, shameless bastard corrupt lying thieves that they are.  "So what if we stole the codebase, it was X years ago and we added Y lines of code since"?  Go to ####.
Do you know how many games there are listed here that have stolen IP? Every Star Wars text MUD in existence, or any MUD that uses Star Wars IP is breaking the Lucas license, for instance. They're stealing the IP. Nobody makes a big deal about them, even though that IP is actually worth billions of dollars.

Some of you are on an incredibly closed-minded and juvenile crusade.

--matt
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 09 2005,02:23)
Some of you are on an incredibly closed-minded and juvenile crusade.
As the maxim goes: I like an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.

Edit: In case my point wasn't clear, I find your notion of open- and close-mindedness mighty strange.
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:35 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Angie @ May 08 2005,19:29)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 09 2005,02:23)
Some of you are on an incredibly closed-minded and juvenile crusade.
As the maxim goes: I like an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
Again, I ask why all the vitriol towards some license breakers but not others? The inability or unwillingness to apply consistent standards to all muds on this issue just screams "Witch hunt." If you're against IP violations, why is there no outcry about the legions of them? Or is it just that you don't like Medievia specifically and this is a reason to hate on them? (Yes, I realize you're not one of the more vitriolic attackers.)

--matt
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:43 PM   #47
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This tired old argument again, the_logos?

To equate deliberately overlooked works of fan fiction with a mud that has taken someone else's work, ripped out the credits, and made a living from running it against their specific and repeated wishes, is laughable.

I'm not sure which is the saddest - that Medthievia claims to be so proud about a mud they now admit to having ripped off, or that a so-called "professional" would then jump to their defence.
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:47 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 08 2005,19:43)
This tired old argument again, the_logos?

To equate deliberately overlooked works of fan fiction with a mud that has taken someone else's work, ripped out the credits, and made a living from running it against their specific and repeated wishes, is laughable.

I'm not sure which is the saddest - that Medthievia claims to be so proud about a mud they now admit to having ripped off, or that a so-called "professional" would then jump to their defence.
You're accusing ME of pulling up a tired old argument? How long have you been flogging this dead horse? A decade? I mean, I can see why you keep it up, given how fabulously effective your crusade has been in shutting them down and keeping them off mud portals.

The Lucas license is clear in its prohibition of using the Star Wars IP. People have chosen to ignore that license, just as Medievia says they've chosen to ignore the DIKU license. The major difference, of course, is that the Lucas IP is worth billions of dollars whereas the DIKU license is worth practically nothing.

And "Medthievia." How 5th grade. Are you going to start making plays on Mike's last name now or something?

--matt
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:54 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 09 2005,02:35)
Again, I ask why all the vitriol towards some license breakers but not others? The inability or unwillingness to apply consistent standards to all muds on this issue just screams "Witch hunt." If you're against IP violations, why is there no outcry about the legions of them? Or is it just that you don't like Medievia specifically and this is a reason to hate on them? (Yes, I realize you're not one of the more vitriolic attackers.)

--matt
I don't remember myself welcoming any of the muds you talk about here at TMS or anywhere else. I do remember myself pointing out a mud that ripped off another mud's webpage content and tried passing it as theirs, on another forum. Like here, the case was pretty clear and well documented. I am not familiar with the Lucas licence or their view on fan fiction - I suppose I could look it up and educate myself, but I have enough other hobbies (not to mention work) to fill my time with. Flaming usually isn't one of them.

There are also two other reasons why Medievia is different, for me at least:

1) They steal from other members of the same community. I am part of that community, so naturally it affects me.

2) They use the stolen property to make profit. Don't get me wrong, I don't envy them the money. To give an example: I am also a painter - if I paint a picture and put it up on the net, some kid may come along, save the picture and use it for their avatar. It's wrong, and if I find out, I may talk to them and explain why it's wrong. If, however, somebody started selling prints of my picture on Ebay, I'd be seriously upset. And if, to make matters worse, it was blatantly obvious that they knew what they were doing, I'd be furious. If they were smug about it, I might jump through the roof.

And you know what? I probably wouldn't sue them if they lived on the other side of the world, because it would not be viable financially and logistically.
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:01 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Angie @ May 08 2005,19:54)
2) They use the stolen property to make profit.
Do they? I don't have access to their books, so I wouldn't know. They use it to charge revenue, certainly, but then, the DIKU license doesn't say anything about revenue, only profit, and the only way to know if they're turning a profit is to look at their books.

--matt
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:02 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
You're accusing ME of pulling up a tired old argument?
Yes, the same tired old argument about works of fan fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lucas license is clear in its prohibition of using the Star Wars IP.
Rubbish. Marc Hedlund, director of Internet development for Lucasfilm, says the company tolerates the publication of fan fiction, so long as the stories are not for commercial gain and don't sully the "family" image of the Star Wars characters.
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:14 PM   #52
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There goes KaVir again, always trying to bring facts and documented evidence into the discussion. That crazy KaVir!
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Valg @ May 09 2005,02:14)
There goes KaVir again, always trying to bring facts and documented evidence into the discussion.  That crazy KaVir!
Well I realise that the_logos isn't really much interested in facts or evidence, but it does at least serve to slow him down a bit
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:30 PM   #54
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Instead of pulling a random quote from someone who is explicitly not making a long-term policy statement, why don't you look at the actual license? What a concept, right?

You may find it here, nicely spelled out on the official Star Wars site:
http://www.starwars.com/site/copyright.html

The relevant and quite clear part:

"All trademarks, service marks, and trade names are proprietary to Lucasfilm Ltd. or its affiliates and/or third-party licensors. STAR WARS, STARWARS.COM; STAR WARS: EPISODE ITHE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE IIATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS: EPISODE III; STAR WARS: EPISODE IVA NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE VTHE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS: EPISODE VIRETURN OF THE JEDI; and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucas. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the text, graphics, photographs, audio and/or video material or stills from audiovisual material or any other materials contained herein, for any other purpose, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. The creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein including, but not limited to, products, services, fonts, icons, link buttons, wallpaper, desktop themes, on-line postcards and greeting cards and unlicensed merchandise (whether sold, bartered or given away) is expressly prohibited. "


Note that it even goes so far as to explicitly prohibit the use of the materials in a networked computer environment without express written permission from Lucas.

But no doubt you'll find a way to claim that this can be ignored. And Star Wars is only one set of IP. There are many works of IP that are being used illicitly.

Edit: Hahaha, I didn't even realize that Kavir was trying to quote someone from -1997- on Lucasfilm policy. Hahah.
--matt
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:35 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 09 2005,03:01)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Angie @ May 08 2005,19:54)
2) They use the stolen property to make profit.
Do they? I don't have access to their books, so I wouldn't know. They use it to charge revenue, certainly, but then, the DIKU license doesn't say anything about revenue, only profit, and the only way to know if they're turning a profit is to look at their books.

--matt
From http://www.medievia.com/vrycebio.html:

Quote:
Originally Posted by
What do you do for a living?: Medievia!
Hmm?
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:44 PM   #56
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ("the_logos" @ foo)
Do you know how many games there are listed here that have stolen IP? Every Star Wars text MUD in existence, or any MUD that uses Star Wars IP is breaking the Lucas license, for instance. They're stealing the IP. Nobody makes a big deal about them, even though that IP is actually worth billions of dollars.
You know you're in trouble when you have to resort "but others are guilty too" arguments. That doesn't absolve anyone of guilt, nor does it excuse any of the_logos' unprofessional statements.
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:46 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 09 2005,02:30)
Instead of pulling a random quote from someone who is explicitly not making a long-term policy statement, why don't you look at the actual license?

You may find it here, nicely spelled out on the official Star Wars site:
http://www.starwars.com/site/copyright.html
We're talking about fan fiction here, so scroll down:

6. Submissions. Lucas’s company policy does not allow it to accept or consider creative ideas, suggestions, or materials other than those it has specifically requested. Accordingly, we must request that no visitors to this Site submit or send any original creative materials, including but not limited to submissions of scripts, story lines, fan fiction, characters, drawings, information, suggestions, ideas or concepts.

Why would they tell you not to submit fan fiction if it wasn't allowed?

And what else do we have on the site...hmmm....

http://www.starwars.com/site/homingbeacon/18.html

Featured Fan Site: The Tantive IV
An excellent blend of sights and sounds, Tantive IV is a delight to explore. There's dioramas, trivia, fan-art, games for kids, fan fiction and more, all organized and easy to navigation. Check it out!
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Old 05-08-2005, 08:40 PM   #58
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Well, after a lovely dinner with my family in celebration of Mother's day I come back to being called a slut (I just don't see the relevance of my sexual activity to my "criminal" activity), my family being threatened, 2 more pages of crap on this thread and 2 other threads started about Medievia.    I spoke with Vryce about what went on here today and he was of course not surprised but appalled at what transpired.  This will be my last post on this matter, period.  Say what you will but I stand behind my beliefs in my life, our game, and our business.  We have been successful all these years without this crap and I'm sorry to have thought that maybe those of you in the "mud community" would have grown up a little in our absence.  As I stated earlier, I am proud of Synozeer and the other Mud portal owners who have grown up and moved on from this old news.  I'm not going to allow people living in the past and digging up old news to ruin my day.  It's just a shame that you really have this thing against Medievia and you won't move on.  In the end, as Matt has said, nothing you say on these forums will change Medievia and our ever-growing playerbase.  
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Old 05-08-2005, 08:52 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by (Soleil @ May 09 2005,04:40)
In the end, as Matt has said, nothing you say on these forums will change Medievia and our ever-growing playerbase.  
Yeah. Rub it in.
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:25 PM   #60
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If all else fails, do a little 'research' and form a few complaints with the Better Business Bureau (BBB). If Medievia.com is registered as a business entity, having several complaints on their record will have a major impact on how Medievia.com does business outside of gaming (ie. purchase agreements, partnerships, etc.) and can result nasty credit checks as well.  
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