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Old 02-19-2004, 08:19 PM   #21
welcor
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Reading your list made me think about some of the issues I've had, both as a player and admin of a mud.

Re: reason 1:False advertising - RP enforcing/encouraging/allowing etc.

I'm afraid bumping into people who have another conception of the meaning behind 'RP encouraged' is hard to avoid. I've met people who insisted on playing IC, and enforcing RP on muds that were 'RP allowed', and I've met implementors who failed to see that using 'RP enforced' would fit the game better, and perhaps deter some of those non-RPers they were trying to weed out (yes, that was me).

Re: reason 2: Inane rules.

You mention the 'no afk rule' as a specific rule you don't like. Well, me neither !  I can understand a 'no botting' rule, but being kicked for leaving the keyboard without logging off is simply crazy. I happen to live in a house with a baby. When the baby is crying, I go and take care of it. Typing afk, if required, of course. But if I'm in a group, adventuring, I'm probably going to stay that way, even if I'm afk for a couple of minutes. Actually, had I been writing this on a mud with this rule, I'd been kicked about an hour ago due to a baby who won't sleep...

Re: reason 3: Cost

Not going to go into this one.

Re: reason 4: Touchy feely imms.

While I understand your point about not needing interference when having fun playing the game, I've also been an admin long enough to know that as an immortal, you often find yourself in a monitoring position. I think your example goes to show that not all people know what 'monitoring' means.
I'm all for having the code in place to enforce things you want enforced, ie. if a specific namepolicy needs to be followed, have code set up, so it handles those who are about to supply their name, and if you want everybody to fill in a full description, have the code ask until all needed information have been added. Having immortals/admin taking care of the matter everytime is both extra work, and can, as in your example, give a bad playing experience. If immortals need to interfer, at least supply them with good manners

Re: reason 5: You're not as good as you think..

That goes without saying Nobody ever lives up to their own standards. Except perhaps me.
I believe most mud admins outthere try to be the perfect admin, at least in the beginning, before they discover the harsh nature of their position. Noone is perfect forever.

Re: reason 6: Helpfiles...

Heh.. help files. This may be a bit OT, as it's a point I've been discussing rl a couple dozen times. Some mud admins, even some I've worked with, seem to think that telling a player a number (_any_ number! ) was a seriously bad thing. One of the most obvious effects of this perception is obfuscated help files, one of my own turnoffs. An example from a mud I only just touched briefly: "Help fireball; When casting this spell, you invoke the powers of fire and wind over the entire room." Yes, I knew that. Why is that any better than 'burning hands' or 'ice storm' ?
Recently playing games like NWN, and a couple of MMORPGs, I've noticed the expanse of statistical information available to players. You just need to look at weapon, and you instantly know this is a 1d6+1 flamberge, or a blaster that requires skill 34 in energy weapons. Looking up the fireball spell gives you exact information on damage range, save opportunities, level ranges and other needed info. Percieving a mud as a tactical fighting game, numbers are important.

Also, as you say, I'd make sure (as an admin) that all changes from stock were clearly visible for all to see on the main help page.

Re: reason 7: Movement penalties;

Well, I ain't got nothing to say to this one.

Welcor
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Old 02-20-2004, 04:13 AM   #22
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Why does it bug you to not be able to respond to the presence of someone? You obviously can't respond to their presence if they're not even logged on, so what's the deal? Perhaps you're just saying that it's a good idea to kick people because you lack the willpower to ignore someone who's ignoring you. I think that's ridiculous.
It bugs me because it's another bit of OOCness in the way of immersion. Just like people blabbering about their new car in a tavern, seeing [afk] in front of their name, or waiting to be responded to before I realise that they are away, is just one more thing that makes me think about the real world, instead of looking through my character's eyes. Might not seem like much, but that's why I said it bugs me, not infuriates me or causes me to quit.

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No it doesn't. It's a one-liner to disallow hostile actions against a player that is AFK, and similar code is already in place to keep them from quitting if they've recently been in battle, so this can be applied to those that are AFK as well. Since it's a coded rule there is no possible abuse.
I'm not talking about coded rules, but in that case, it's the same problem as above.

The MUD I play in has it simple. There is no AFK command. You can make it semi-clear you are AFK by sitting and meditating, but that does not mean you won't get killed anyway, since it does have it's place in the IC world. You take a chance, and most people try not to. If there is a problem IRL, you can usually quit, or get away with ducking into the wilderness away from the main roads and getting auto-kicked in 15 minutes. But it's almost impossible to safely idle because the MUD is a dangerous place. And idling is the problem. I don't have any problems with people going to do something for short periods. I do that myself. But even with auto-kicking code, scripts to keep you in the world are simple matters.

Pre-anticipated response: Before you argue that Immortals can usually handle that problem with monitoring, I agree completely. *pokes* Don't switch things around so much, Yui. Many MUDs don't have involved Immortals, though.

I just re-re-read Dub's post, and finally, I understood the way he formatted his post. Just a silly thing that confused me from the way he typed it. *searches for glasses* Last part of my last post is no longer applicable.
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Old 02-20-2004, 06:21 AM   #23
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It bugs me because it's another bit of OOCness in the way of immersion
In other words, you're a RPer.
That explains the different viewpoint.

Typing afk, and having a flag set, is simply a matter of common courtesy, IMHO. I agree with dub on this matter, no afk rules are bad. In most cases they've been added to prevent exploitation of gametime rules and botting. Why not change the base layout of the game, so you can't just idle your way upwards, if that's a concern.

About going afk in RP muds - if it's a big deal that afk people interfere with the immersion, do as someone else suggested, and send them to a non-access 'afk' room, so hapless RPers don't bump into them.

Most rules can be coded around, the no afk rule is no exception.

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Old 02-20-2004, 07:38 AM   #24
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Your Mud has cooties.

Yours,
Pris

PS None of you are going to play another mud because you're already addicted to one. The entire discussion is kinda moot since the only time anyone from these forums would log into another mud is to make themselves feel good about the mud they've invested so much of their time in:
"Oh, this mud doesn't have as many levels as my chosen mud."
"This mud doesn't format speech nicely like my mud does."
"This mud blows goats."
And so on and so forth until you feel justified in logging back onto your regular mud and reassuring everyone that, "Yes, we're easily the best mud out there. All those other muds are frightening and scary and populated by strange people who don't speak our language."

The end.

Also...your mud still has cooties.

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Old 02-20-2004, 09:33 AM   #25
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Oh pris, that's a real mature post

And it probably has, too ;]

While I may agree on the fact that most people here have a specific mud they're addicted to, I certainly do not agree that
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the only time anyone from these forums would log into another mud is to make themselves feel good about the mud they've invested so much of their time in
I know of several TMS (and TMC) members who seek new muds to play.

I guess you speak for yourself, then. Do you have lice-repellant on your mud (we don't)?

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Old 02-20-2004, 01:14 PM   #26
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Bahaha. That's easily the funniest post I've read in a long time, Pris. ^.^ Dunno how serious you were, but still...
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Old 02-20-2004, 05:43 PM   #27
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Hmm. Ok. My comments...

AFK - It can be odd to find someone hidding in an obscure corner then looking at the who output and seeing that they are idle. However, on the mud where I play there is always to option of going back to your house and sitting there. There is also an AFK command, so players trying to talk to someone (even is the Idle timer hasn't kicked in yet) know that they are not there. This imho makes a lot more sense than kicking the person off, but then if you are kicked off, you would drop everything you are carrying/wearing, which would be quite bad.

In general, it isn't a major issue unless you are on some mud that requires you to be in front of the machine 100% of the tiem to respond. Which is impractical and bloody stupid imho.

Movement - There was a recent comment by someone on my mud about having ships or horses, etc. added. Right now if you have climb and swim skills or can fly, you can go pretty much anyplace in the amount of time it takes to type the commands or execute a speed walk. In some respects this is quite dumb. However, my first thought was, 'hmm.. what if players had a certain number of moves they could make per minute?'. Thus you would still take a long time to get from point A to B.

The one thing I would have never thought of is the insane concept that you should be able to basically run 50 rooms (at the same pace as everyone else) and then have to spend hours recovering before moving again. Huh?!? How does this even make sense? Yeah, so someone that is 'faster' could move farther in terms of distance, but shouldn't that then be considered indurance? Speed means tow people starting in the same room at the same moment and both travelling 10 rooms should 'never' arrive at the last room at the same time, unless they both have the same speed.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I consider this an example of the BS method many designers use of implimenting the easiest solution to a problem, instead of the right one. It is much easier to limit how many moves someone can make in a day, but that isn't the *right* solution to make it even barely realistic and the end result is ****ed off players that find themselves camping out for a day, just so they can move again.

Note: Using a x-moves per minute scheme also allows you to track cumulative exhaustion. If you have 20 moves a minute and use all 10, then the next time you may only be allowed 19, until eventually you are forced to rest in order to 'recover' completely. Moving at a slower pace to avoid this becomes a choice, instead of forcing you to stop periodically for no reason, as it seems some of these muds make you.
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Old 02-20-2004, 07:15 PM   #28
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Eagleon @ foo)
t bugs me because it's another bit of OOCness in the way of immersion. Just like people blabbering about their new car in a tavern, seeing [afk] in front of their name, or waiting to be responded to before I realise that they are away, is just one more thing that makes me think about the real world, instead of looking through my character's eyes. Might not seem like much, but that's why I said it bugs me, not infuriates me or causes me to quit.
See, this is exactly why some people think that most RPers are elitist. You're suggesting that there be rules and penalties for people that don't pander to the RPer style of gameplay. This leads me exactly to the question that Jazuela wisely avoided answering: Why do you get the special attention over the other guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Pris @ foo)
PS None of you are going to play another mud because you're already addicted to one. The entire discussion is kinda moot since the only time anyone from these forums would log into another mud is to make themselves feel good about the mud they've invested so much of their time in:
Another flare of brilliant ignorance. The concrete problems the original poster gave does not equate to something as undefinable as "cooties". Your post is just another example of a completely inadequate "internet analogy".
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Old 02-20-2004, 08:21 PM   #29
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Yui - I "wisely avoided answering" because I just hadn't gotten around to it. I don't read this forum religiously

I was referring to an RP-encouraged game. In a strictly PK game, or a "RP-allowed" game I doubt anyone would care. But in a game where RP is supposedly encouraged, trying to RP, when the person you're trying to RP -with- isn't paying attention, is DIScouraging rather than ENcouraging.

I have problems with RP-encouraged games because the whole idea of "encouraged" is totally unenforceable in any possible way to satisfy both sides.

For RPI, the answer is clear. Being unresponsive when people are trying to RP with you is a bad thing. For PK, it doesn't matter all that much, and can actually get in the way. For RP-encouraged, one side will always end up dissatisfied if the RPer is trying to RP with the non-RPer.
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Old 02-20-2004, 08:44 PM   #30
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Jazuela @ Feb. 20 2004,19:21)
I was referring to an RP-encouraged game. In a strictly PK game, or a "RP-allowed" game I doubt anyone would care. But in a game where RP is supposedly encouraged, trying to RP, when the person you're trying to RP -with- isn't paying attention, is DIScouraging rather than ENcouraging.
Sorry, such a rule is a penalty against non-RPers. This is a form of negative reinforcement that places a mud squarely in the realm of RP Enforced, which is synonymous with "Non-RP Discouraged". RP Encouraged implies positive reinforcement of RP, not negative reinforcement of non-RP. It seems like splitting hairs to the uninitiated, but the difference is deeply significant.
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Old 02-21-2004, 03:40 AM   #31
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Let's be honest about it, the terms used to describe MUDs may be descriptive of the games' policies but they hardly reflect the reality of the capablity of that MUD in regard to RP.

"RP-accepted" means "Not RP".  This is little more than "Hack and Slash but you can talk to the mobs before they die if you want to."  I've tried to RP (a long time ago) on such a game.  It's just not possible.  You go into a room and interact with a mob only to have some fool come by and slaughter it for the "experience points".  So, you try to RP around it only to have the mob respawn so the next H&Ser can come along and score some experience.  Nope, it just doesn't work.

"RP-encouraged" means "Not RP".  RP requires that there are certain standards within the world.  If one person tries to RP with another, events going on around them can easily destroy an atmosphere of RP created by them.  Even solo-RP requires that the world revolve around some sort of constant.  If one person wants to RP that they're taking a casual stroll down the street, it's disruptive to the atmosphere if they constantly come across corpses.  Even if they RP around that, at some point, it begins to become ridiculously unbelievable.  

Now, I could go off on quite a few of the so-called "RP-enforced" MUDs too but I'm going to hold back.    Suffice to say, RPers aren't "elitists" but merely looking for something other than mindless slaughter.  Whereas some people look at a mob and think "points" or "loot"; RPers look at a mob, read its description, think about what the mob would look and act like, and treat it as if it were another PC within the world they're in.  I almost laugh at people that take their H&S world seriously yet don't see the irony in treating that world seriously while they cut down every NPC in their path.

Anyway, as for me, I've had my fill of H&S.  Just doesn't hold my interest anymore and they are occassionally played by pathetic people that take it way too seriously for what it is, a game.  I think a small number of them use the game to compensate in their own minds for feelings of inferiority in real life.  To that end, they become overly competitive and act in a manner quite unacceptable to achieve their goals.  I'd just as soon not deal with those people.  It's sometimes unavoidable in real life, but why do it during my recreation?  Besides, I enjoy living out my imagination through a fictional world (exploring it and interacting with it) more than killing things.  You can only type "kill <mob>" so many times before it loses its fascination.  But, just as the real world contains endless potential, so too do RP worlds.  That's where you'll find me on my time off.  

Take care,

Jason
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Old 02-21-2004, 03:56 AM   #32
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Next time, I recommend you use less prejudicial language if you are trying to not come off as "elitist".

Quote:
Originally Posted by
You go into a room and interact with a mob only to have some fool come by and slaughter it for the "experience points".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Suffice to say, RPers aren't "elitists" but merely looking for something other than mindless slaughter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
I almost laugh at people that take their H&S world seriously yet don't see the irony in treating that world seriously while they cut down every NPC in their path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anyway, as for me, I've had my fill of H&S. Just doesn't hold my interest anymore and they are occassionally played by pathetic people that take it way too seriously
Seems pretty clear that you are, in fact, elitist. You characterized non RP'ers as pathetic fools who are interested in mindless activities.

Dub
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Old 02-21-2004, 04:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
You go into a room and interact with a mob only to have some fool come by and slaughter it for the "experience points".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Suffice to say, RPers aren't "elitists" but merely looking for something other than mindless slaughter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
I almost laugh at people that take their H&S world seriously yet don't see the irony in treating that world seriously while they cut down every NPC in their path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anyway, as for me, I've had my fill of H&S.  Just doesn't hold my interest anymore and they are occassionally played by pathetic people that take it way too seriously
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Seems pretty clear that you are, in fact, elitist.  You characterized non RP'ers as pathetic fools who are interested in mindless activities.

Dub
In regard to the first comment, if someone else were already there, entering a room and mindlessly (if the action didn't entail any extensive thought beforehand regarding the situation, that pretty much consititutes mindless) killing the NPC that the other person might have been interacting with within the atmosphere of the room description is perhaps not the action of a fool.  Substitute "ass" instead.

Concerning the second statement, please see my above comment about mindless activity.  It doesn't take a lot of thought to type "kill <mob>", then direction "x", then "kill <mob>" again, etc.

In reference to the third comment, I take it you don't see the irony.  Maybe you just didn't think about it.

As for the fourth statement, read my earlier comments again and you'll see that I said that they are "occassionally played by pathetic people", not exclusively.  Most RP MUDs actually weed out those types because they are unlikely to stay within the confines of their role and the RP world in favor of doing something completely unrealistic (like slaughtering everything in sight just because it's there).  So, taking some of my words out of context may fit your purpose, but it doesn't make me an elitist.

Finally, in regards to your belief that I'm elitist, Eleanor Roosevelt said that "noone can make you feel inferior without your consent."  If for some reason you feel I'm elitist, ask yourself instead why you feel the way you do.

Take care,

Jason
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Old 02-21-2004, 05:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
You go into a room and interact with a mob only to have some fool come by and slaughter it for the "experience points".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
I almost laugh at people that take their H&S world seriously yet don't see the irony in treating that world seriously while they cut down every NPC in their path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
"RP-accepted" means "Not RP".  This is little more than "Hack and Slash but you can talk to the mobs before they die if you want to."  
Forgive an old hack'n'slasher for reacting to the some of the irony of this.  

Do you roleplayers actually take the mobs in your mud so seriously that you try to "interact" with them, expecting some kind of intelligent response?


Sure, in my own Mud it would be a very good idea to talk to the Mobs instead of slaughering them, because many of them have scripts that would make them respond in a seemingly intelligent way. But this is because our mud is heavy on Quests, and many of the mobs are important parts of those. So naturally we expect our players to interact with them, rather than killing them.

But I'd never call it roleplay, even though my mud is one of the "roleplay-encouraged" that you sneer at. To me roleplay is something that involves player to player - not player to mob.

On a side note, in a pure hack'n'slash mud it is usually regarded as highly improper to slaughter "someone else's mob" - for different reasons of course, but the codex still exists.

Naturally idiotic players occur in all types of muds. I've met my fair share of them in RP-enforced muds too, even though I admit they are more frequent in H&S and PK environments.
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Old 02-21-2004, 05:59 AM   #35
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I tend to try and make a lot of joke posts here 'cause I think a lot of topics get a bit out of hand and a bit of light-hearted humour is sometimes required.

Sometimes however it may come about that I wish to write a serious note.

Just so you're all aware; this is one of those times.

prof1515, you're a complete knob.

Honestly, those have got to be the worlds stupidest posts on any forum, ever. When neaderthals were writing notes to each other on cave walls they still came up with better responses than you did. Obviously the only thing you can RP is a troll.

Actually, I take that back, you could probably RP a troll but that's nothing compared to what is obviously your favourite RP character: The half elf, half vampyre prince of the elves who was outcast from his tribe as a youth but struggles through adversity and misconceptions every day in an effort to reach his birthright of the lost sword of R0X0RiNG!!11!!

Oh well, you have fun, maybe one day you'll be able to RP a polite, considerate person and then one of your lives might actually be able to engage the rest of us in some sort of proper conversation. Obviously it's never going to happen to your RL entity.

Don't reply, you got the flame you were trolling for. Just walk away and let everyone else continue the discussion they were having.

Yours,
Pris
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Old 02-21-2004, 07:40 AM   #36
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Pris, if prof is a troll, then your... I don't know. What's worse then a troll?

In defence of part of prof's post. I see many reviews refer to console RPGs as having the "mindlessly killing monsters to gain EXP" without anyone being offended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Feb. 21 2004,04:37)
Do you roleplayers actually take the mobs in your mud so seriously that you try to "interact" with them, expecting some kind of intelligent response?
Of course we don't expect a response. But if we expected a response whenever we RP, would we solo-RP?

And if we only RP when a player is around. Does that mean I get to go around slaughtering NPCs when no players are around? After all, there is no-one around, so therefore I don't have to roleplay

The answers to those questions are going to vary from mud-to-mud depending on the level of roleplaying that mud requires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Feb. 21 2004,04:37)
To me roleplay is something that involves player to player - not player to mob.
Both of them are roleplaying, but the level of roleplaying is different. On one level, you have storytelling, that involves only RPing when there is someone there to appreciate it. On a higher level you have playing the role. Now I don't mean to sound elitist here. If storytelling is the level of roleplaying someone wants and the mud allows this, then good for them I personally prefer "playing the role" level of RPing Everyone's different though
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Old 02-21-2004, 08:06 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
prof1515 wrote:
Let's be honest about it, the terms used to describe MUDs may be descriptive of the games' policies but they hardly reflect the reality of the capablity of that MUD in regard to RP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
"RP-accepted" means "Not RP".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
"RP-encouraged" means "Not RP".
I tend to think of them as follows:

1) Non-RP: You shouldn't roleplay.

Example: If you roleplay here, we'll point and laugh at you.

2) RP-accepted: You can roleplaying if you like.

Example: Some people like to roleplay, and that's fine, but you don't have to.

3) RP-encouraged: You'll be rewarded if you roleplaying.

Example: We award bonus exp for roleplaying, and only proven roleplayers are allowed to become guild leaders.

4) RP-enforced: You'll be punished if you don't roleplay.

Example: We'll freeze and ban you if your roleplaying is bad, and if you talk about OOC things we'll send the lads around to your house to break your kneecaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anyway, as for me, I've had my fill of H&S. Just doesn't hold my interest anymore and they are occassionally played by pathetic people that take it way too seriously for what it is, a game.
Sounds like you've got it the wrong way around - a HnSer is someone who is simply playing the mud as a game. It's the roleplayers who often try to make it more than that, and people like you who wish to ban those who do treat the mud like a game. If it's possible to go around slaughtering mobs and benefiting from doing so, then clearly the person doing so is playing the game, while you are trying to enforce behavior that goes against the intention of the game. In this case you should clearly look for a game which isn't geared that way - for example a mud in which killing NPCs for no reason gives the killer no exp, and makes other (powerful) NPCs hunt them down.

There is nothing wrong with RP, nor with HnS. Some players insist on one extreme or the other, while others prefer something of a middle ground - fortunately there are plenty of muds available so everyone can find something that appeals to their own tastes.

I should also point out that a mud doesn't have to be either RP or HnS - it can be both, or it can be something else entirely. Nor does "combat-oriented" have to mean "mindless HnS", any more than "roleplaying" has to mean "mudsex".
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Old 02-21-2004, 09:53 AM   #38
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I try to run an RP encouraged mud, at least I *thought* I was building and running an RP encouraged mud.

We talk on the OOC channels about a variety of things. People have the option to mute the channel completely or mute individual players.

We mainly kill mobs for experience. Most quests and some areas give a one-time bonus for completion just for figuring things out that a typical H&Ser might miss out on.

We have several options that offer alternatives to killing (many, many skills, crafting of weapons and arms, building homes, farming, marketing, and more) unfortuently leveling is pretty much tied into killing. I think adding experience simply for typing SAY or EMOTE is a bit silly. I'm going to attempt adding it into the skill system though.

I have some fairly complex "eliza" type scripts running that allow people to interact with several key mobs. In no way can a mob offer the complexity and range that another PC can. I don't undestand how someone can seriously expect to role-play with a mob that has a very limited capacity? For the important things, myself or the other admin will possess the mob and RP.

We're in the early stages of progress for the mud (working since August 03) so I'm certainly no expert when it comes to handling a large playerbase or anything else of that nature. I do read and gather ideas from many of you folks though and I am attempting to stay within the category of "RP-Encouraged".

I do dislike players running through town butchering everything in their path. I also dislike treating every mob on town as a high level retired adventurer. One idea we came up with and are beginning to implement is to have multiple (and usually quite low) levels of mobs in town. Kill one and you get a <town-name> killer flag set. No one in that town will do business with you anymore.

So am I enforcing RP at this point? You guys are starting to leave me more confused after reading anymore
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Old 02-21-2004, 10:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by
I do dislike players running through town butchering everything in their path. I also dislike treating every mob on town as a high level retired adventurer. One idea we came up with and are beginning to implement is to have multiple (and usually quite low) levels of mobs in town. Kill one and you get a <town-name> killer flag set. No one in that town will do business with you anymore.

So am I enforcing RP at this point?
IMO no - you're not enforcing anything, you're just changing the coded rules of the game to reflect a more realistic approach to cause and affect. Something which any type of mud (RP or not) could benefit from.

In fact in my opinion, based on what you've wrote here, I probably wouldn't even consider you "RP encouraged" - from what you've said, you don't appear to actually offer any incentives for roleplaying, and therefore would fall into my interpretation of the "RP accepted" category. The additional quests, crafting, etc that you offer are likely to appeal more to a different crowd entirely from the typical HnSer or RPer.
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Old 02-21-2004, 10:49 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ Feb. 21 2004,02:40)
Suffice to say, RPers aren't "elitists" but merely looking for something other than mindless slaughter.
I'll make sure and tell the chess club to cease their mindless slaughter and stop to think about how a rook would feel about the tiled warfare.

In case you didn't detect my sarcasm, I'm obviously telling you that the opposite of "RP" is not "mindless slaughter". There are countless strategic games out there that require a great deal of brain power, making your polarization completely foolish.
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