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Old 12-08-2005, 07:34 AM   #41
noodles
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A natural aspect of providing a service rather than releasing a standalone product.

In any case, I think what I take from this discussion with regard to what I put out there as a possible 'next level' for MUDs, is what I have taken from all MUD discussions on new ideas or directions I have been involved in.  To do anything requires an amount of work, and until you have done it and shown that it can be done, all you are going to get is speculation about how it can be done badly or why it might not work.  Which is perfectly justified, given that there is nothing of substance to show otherwise.

But I was more interested in any other parties who might have gone someways similar, or be heading there, than doing it myself.  Like Medieval Kingdoms; it is a pity they are not more open about their efforts.  I agree 100% with the comments about the only people likely to do it being people who have fleeting interest and the only way I could see myself working on something like it, is if I were employed to do so.
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:16 AM   #42
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Well I'm certainly doing some of the things you describe - a room-less world with automatically generated descriptions (much inspired by Nathan Yospe's PhysMUD, which you also mentioned in your post). I'll probably add generated settlements in the future as well, but I'm not interested in taking the "simulation of life" approach, or adding an economy or such.

My comments were really in response to your statement "...but I see no reason that it could not be done by someone with the motivation and the skill", as I can see a number of reasons why people would choose not to go that route, even if they had the motivation and skill to do so. I'm not saying it can't be done (because obviously it can - I've done part of it myself), only that many people wouldn't consider it worth doing.
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Old 12-13-2005, 10:06 PM   #43
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I have to say Noodles that some of the things you would like to see have always been passions of mine as well. I like games where there are interlocking layers of simulation for the players to push and pull against.

But I also agree with KaVir that many times people who try to really take new ideas to the extremes quite often never finish what they start. My approach to this problem is to work with existing code to a degree, but then extend it as far as I reasonably can.

So in my new game it is quite likely there will be 'Rooms' but since they will also have coordinates. So instead of just typeing the exit name and leaving the room, it will start you walking. When you reach the exit it will preform it's normal function and move you to the next location.

For outside areas however I plan to bypass the exit system completely and do exit transitions on the fly based on coordinates.

I like the overall simulations model because it naturally creates systems that react to player actions without the need for a lot of specific code. If supply and demand controls the prices of resources then when someone starts to buy a lot of something the price will go up. I see it as providing the tools of the real world so that players, and GameMasters, can spin stories that have a real impact on the Universe.

If a Colony, or Village, makes money on a daily basis because of specific actions of the NPCs that live there you create such a system. If someone can kill, or just get in the way of whatever the Villagers have to do, they have a way to put pressure on the Colony/Village/City/Castle. The Village in turn must try to protect it's citizens. If a single NPC can become really important, say the one person who really keeps something vital going, then all sorts of things can just naturally happen.

It does not require the help of a GameMaster for someone to consider, and attempt, a kidnapping of this important NPC. The players of a Colony will have to attempt to get this NPC back. Not a Gamemaster set-up, a natural part of the environment.



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