[eax]

Killed myself laughing when I read this, well put

Okay talking from my perspective regarding bots/triggers, power gamers and such things, I think it is a dangerous road to go down where by systems are put in place to hinder players or their use of client functions. I am no veteran and I don't mind that some players are better at mudding than me, I am actually a programmer but am just learning the whole triggers and mud scripting capabilities of the likes of the portal client, the fact is I never leave scripts running when Im afk but the programmer in me decided the other week that I wanted to code a script via the "ticker" which would semi automatically fight for me, I just needed to understand how it was done. (I was lambasted by one player regarding attempting to bot but everyone else there was helpful because they realised that day I was learning to code the client, I have never been afk and had a bot on any game ever, yet knowone just considers it helps players to understand scripts which lets be honest here you aint going to survive against high level mobs and players in some muds without it)I learned so much through attempting this and after maybe 5 hours of messing with code I decided I didnt need the ticker so I deleted my code. As it stands owing to a player which kindly went over the syntax of things pertaining to the ticker I now had knowledge which enabled me to use full features of my client without the ticker and I have a better undestanding of how portal handles events. (I also know how to partially use the ticker to say drink an HP potion at a certain health level)

In regards to the above I dont see what harm I did, I never play afk and being a mage I fight manually 100% and I feel the majority of players are fine and realise that common sense need be applied to features! I think the best and fairest way not to penalize players is to do what Threshold said in regards to just speaking to your playerbase and taking reports. I think the problem lies when botting is used to camp a newbie area or otherwise,autoloot all the rares and then flood the game market. (This hurts the majoity badly and things like this should eb focussed on in my view)

I think major nerfs and hurting scripters is not a good way to go at all because I have never believed in hurting the majority for the sake of the minority, design game mechanics in such a way that botting is not beneficial

Speaking again in terms of some of the muds I am on well some dont save player gear hence loot hoarding can only go so far plus there are loads of more passive means which enable scripters and make botting pointless



Yes this ^^^ is a good point and I can see why people dont like that, I sure wouldnt want to be as a player competing to write the best bot but at the same time I just wish mechanics could be done in a way which compliments common sense usage so everyone doesnt suffer at the hands of minority stupidity

[Threshold]

While it is easy to say "they should just make the game so botting doesn't help", that's pretty pie in the sky. No matter how brilliant your game mechanics, it will almost always be possible for a bot to help in some way. Some games are totally bottable, and that's bad.

Bot assisted play can be as bad and unfair as pure botting.

[Parhelion]

It really does boil down to the type of game you're running. In some, powergamers are helpful and -- if you've got a nice, friendly playerbase -- can actually be useful in keeping newbies because they have the ability and knowledge to help them adjust to the game without having the get hit the brunt of the learning curve.

In other games, I think its pretty detrimental. Such is the case in one game I work on, which is a roleplaying-type game AND has a fairly small playerbase.

Skill progression in the game is fairly slow, with casual players going full days without actually seeing visible progress; meanwhile, there are the grinders and power gamers, who have discovered PRECISELY how to raise skills -- what mobs to hit, and in what order, what postures to stand in while fighting, what weapons to use. These players can attain extremely high levels -- and even max out skills, particularly combat-related ones -- within one or two weeks' time. Oftentimes these methods are not in conjunction with the "spirit" of role-play, giving a feeling of an unrealistic environment, and I feel that detracts from the overall value of the game.

To make a long story short, the prevalence of power gamers and their ability to basically just "win" the game, hands down, means that the roleplaying element of the game gets overshadowed by a PvP element. Players form groups off-game and begin to get aggressive, taking character deaths a bit too seriously, and using the skill progression and grinding to "get ahead" of and grief one another, regardless of what is actually going on IC or what would even be reasonable in theme.

The whole problem with retaining newbies in a negative environment like this is just exploded. The game subsists on two or three "Old Player's Clubs"... but that's another issue entirely.

[Darva]

Now, it's not a major game, but the forums have had over 130 unique logins today, and it is a clone of a once major game: (), but then, that's the whole point of the shard... macroing in peace for the people that enjoy that sorta thing.