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#41 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Home MUD: Stash
Home MUD: Archons of Avenshar
Posts: 653
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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I feel like this discussion has actually made progress, and that seems to be pretty rare on internet forums. It's a beautiful thing! |
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#42 | ||
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,399
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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Furthermore, I found crafting to be something promoted by RPIMUDS. What is the difference between killborg and craftborg? They both require a player to do monotanous keystrokes for some skill increase (even on leveless systems). I do not understand why it is so hard just to admit that the RPIMUD group were attempting to classify themselves as a "higher standard" of roleplay. If you scan the website this becomes clear. I am not saying this is a bad thing. The only thing bad about it is trying to claim otherwise. There is nothing wrong with attempting to have a better world for roleplay. The problem arrives when you take a few game styles and say that this is the definition of more authentic roleplay based on that style. Similar to saying your Picante sauce is more authentic because it was made in El Paso Texas vs. New York City. As with Mina, NW would never join a group based on a narrow (codebased) style of definition regardless if NW fell into that category. The same way NW would not claim to have a monopoly on quality roleplay despite the attempt to promote good, quality roleplay. Why? Good, immersive/intense roleplay is created by the players, not the game. The only thing the game needs is promotion of such and enforcement to stay in character. And that, only on an RPE. There are several games not even RPE classified that have good, immersive/intense, roleplay. |
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#43 | ||||||
Senior Member
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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The difference between killborg and craftborg would be that the first is destructive to setting and an irrational means of role-playing anything but a psychopath. Craftborg, which I will repeat isn't something RPIs promote, is less destructive and usually undertaken to generate money. As a result, it can be made so unprofitable that players are more likely to abandon it. Players don't go around killing things merely as a means of generating income. That makes it harder to regulate. This is why you see MUDs devoted entirely to PK and H&S but not MUDs devoted entirely to crafting. Regardless, neither is the focus of RPIs which leads me to wonder if you've ever played an RPI. If so, which? As for the code, most of the original MUD code was designed with the goal of hack-and-slash. Kill to gain experience points in order to level and gain more skills/spells so that you can go out and kill more mobs. Mob-killing to advance, experience points, levels. These are role-play. They point to the purpose of the code design and its purpose is fairly clear. Also, attributing player behavior to the MUD itself is not accurate. The policy of RPIs doesn't support botting and skill spamming (which is why there are some checks built into the code to make it unsuccessful). H&S MUDs are designed with the intention of going around killing things. If similar behavior exists in an RPI, it's due to player actions, not the MUD itself. Quote:
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Also, you mean RPE as in Role-Play Enforced and not Role-Play Encouraged, right? To be RPE(nforced), you would need to fulfill the requirement of having a policy of enforced role-play. It's not about the role-play itself. It's about the policy. Jason |
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#44 | |
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,399
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
I won't quote your entire post because already it becomes convoluted. I will say that again the argument of "stickman" comes up and I will respond to that. All of my comments came directly from the RPIMUD site and from your posts throughout the threads related to this. My main argument was that you "seem" to subtly put down Hack and Slash games in your arguments such as:
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As for the rest. I can certainly quote the mud site for your answers. But the bigger issue is the issue you dodged which is the entire basis for this thread. To it: RPI is no more accurate a term than the proposed RPEI. Both are discriptively innacurate and based on preferences derived by style of code. At best, they are propoganda for a certain gaming style. |
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#45 | |||
Senior Member
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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Likewise, an RPI is less if the focus of the discussion is mob-killing for experience points. Setting aside the lack of experience points in RPI code, they have RP-centric policies which do not support going around killing everything in sight. Hence, RPIs along with other RP* MUDs would constitute "less" in terms of comparison with H&S games. Quote:
The term RPI was created to describe three different games utilizing two different code developments yet which shared a large number of similarities not shared with any other games at the time. The term RPEI is an abbreviation for a mish-mash of words chosen as propaganda by a single MUD. There is a distinction. One provides a means of identifying a group of MUDs sharing like features. The other is a term for a single MUD, redundant as that game already has a term to describe the exact feature set of that particular game. The term is the name "New Worlds". Jason |
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#46 | ||
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,399
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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And the argument has now come full circle. Claiming you are an RPI because you are leveless is as assanine as claiming you are an RPEI because you have levels. |
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#47 | |||
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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If one didn't know the policy of the any of them, just looking at the vast majority of role-play enforced MUDs would have been insufficient to differentiate them from most H&S MUDs. But looking at the three RPIs, one would have noticed great differences that only a couple other MUDs could come anywhere near to resembling. Quote:
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Since then, the RPI family has not been limited to just those three. Another codebase was developed which resembled the original RPIs and off-shoots of one of the three resulted in more than tripling the number of RPIs open and in development. And through it all, they have continued to maintain a set of characteristics that first applied and apply still. That's as good of proof of a particular sub-set as you're likely to find in any situation. Jason |
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#48 |
Senior Member
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
Didn't realy want to return to this thread. But to clarify I'm not lumping all other muds into a stock category. RPI's are a rarity really, so there's stock muds, RPI muds, and then there's muds that are more established and can call themselves whatever they want. The fact remains that RPI's have certain characteristics and the acronym was designed for the players that want to try out these types of muds, not ones that DON'T have those charactistics, period.
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#49 |
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
Ten years ago, when I would look for RPI muds to try, the primary factor I was concerned with was roleplay *enforcement*. Outside of that I was pretty much open and simply happily surprised to see any other special features.
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#50 | |
Senior Member
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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#51 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 35
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
This deflectory argument is all well and good, Newworlds, but I'm sorry, 6 of your eleven points have absolutely NOTHING to do with roleplay whatsoever.
If an attempt is to be made to enforce a new 'standard' of roleplay, perhaps the criteria should actually focus around roleplay? (Seriously, what in the name of raptor jesus do levels, enforced classes, and channels have to do with anything?) This seems like a great big 'I'm going to make my own club, and it's going to be cooler than yours, and have a tree house and ice cream and caek!', in response to some people's disagreement with how you classify your game. In short, why are you even bothering? |
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#52 | |
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,399
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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All of these things are "preferences" and do not relate to whether a game in Roleplay enforced intensively or just Roleplay Inforced. In short I was making a parody for the sake of clarity. |
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#53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Home MUD: Stash
Home MUD: Archons of Avenshar
Posts: 653
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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![]() This post was made after a heated debate in another thread that started when a player was requesting an RPI only to be told (quite brutally) that what he wanted was NOT an RPI. So, the definition of RPI came under fire, and in the process, some people believed that the "standards" of what makes an RPI really was more of a list of preferences with a misleading name than anything else. In other words, some people believed that the RPI designation seemed more of a "club" than an industry standard. Thus, New Worlds made his own list of preferences to illustrate this point. That's why he bothered. ![]() |
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#54 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 35
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
Aha! Obviously I did miss said point. My apologies Newworlds.
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#55 |
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,399
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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#56 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
The OP seems more like a regular MUD advertisement than anything else. NW has always fought tooth and nail to proclaim themselves an RPIMUD despite the fact that they differ from such in practically all aspects other than requiring that the players act in-character. Virtually none of the staple RPI mechanics and ideals exist on that MUD, and this RPEI standard's criteria make little sense beyond "this is what our MUD has to offer". Between this and NW's habit of recommending their MUD to every single help-me-find-a-MUD poster, even ones that never mention a desire for roleplay, I'm left questioning the integrity of this MUD.
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#57 | |
Member
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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#58 | |
Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 1,399
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
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(Iincidently NW only recommends NW on posts that are specifically close to their style of game. NW also recommends other MUDS when they are not. NW nearly always recommends a few other games even when recommending themselves. If you want examples of this I can research them all if you disbelieve this). And since Throttle didn't get the purpose of this whole thread, is was a spoof on RPI. Clue in, Throttle. Because Proph1515 is trying really hard to be more mature about the whole RP Organization he is creating and building with the team, I respect what he is doing and would rather encourage his success than banter about silly threads of the past here. |
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#59 |
Senior Member
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Re: RPEI, The New RP Standard
Silence! There is no need for this petty argument to continue here. Both sides have valid opinions.
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