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Old 09-04-2002, 10:28 PM   #1
Jazuela
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My experience with online text games is mostly Gemstone III and Inferno. One is a RP-optional medieval-based fantasy game, the other is an RP-required high fantasy game. I've been playing Armageddon, and love the hard-core roleplaying, but I'm not fond of the post-apocalyptic genre. Plus their room descriptions are really bad - if there's a street with 5 rooms in it, every single room has the exact same description, and there are very VERY few objects within the rooms you can intert with. For instance - if my character's learning to be a burglar, then it's probably a good idea to try and steal something from an abandoned place first - just to get the hang of the skill. But if you go into an abandoned place and the description says there's a desk, a chair, and a mural on the wall, you can't search the desk - because it doesn't exist.

Inferno was great, but I had a fall-out with their admin. Gemstone was a wonderful starting point but once I learned how to roleplay I became somewhat of a snob and left due to lack of RP in their game.

So what I'm looking for now, is something with the hard-core RP of Armageddon, in more of a high fantasy setting, and with the complex and intricate mechanics and code of Inferno. But I also like the type of "emote" and "tell" types of commands that Armageddon had - completely dynamic where you could target not only certain people, but even individual things they were wearing. I think what Armageddon offers is fantastic, but their room descriptions and lack of objects to interact with really take a lot of the "realism" away for me. Plus I never EVER liked seeing "A door opens to the west" and you can "open door" but you can't "go door" - you have to go west. If I see a door, I wanna go through the door, dangit. Just like if there's a wall, I don't wanna just type UP. I wanna have to actually CLIMB the WALL. I also can't stand forced hunger and thirst. It makes absolutely no sense to suddenly realize you're hungry JUST as a High Noble is giving you a lecture...or in the middle of an invasion tell everyone to hold up while you take a sip of water.

Okay - so this is a very long post, and I honestly didn't mean to get into a whole thing about specific games I've played, but maybe it'll help in case someone out there has something like a hybrid of the mechanics and detailed descriptions and objects of Inferno, with the hard-core realistic roleplay of Armageddon.

Anyone?
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Old 09-05-2002, 01:09 AM   #2
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Old 09-05-2002, 04:58 AM   #3
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I dunno Thel, I'm not sure that Jazuela would find happiness in our little game. I'm sure our second evil head will chime in here shortly, too. ("I didn't know DartMUD had a second evil head." "You bet they do.")

Jazuela's interesting syntax preferences prompted the following random musings at 4 AM: DartMUD has a fairly comprehensive aliases system. For example, you can do:

alias eb examine bulletin board
alias pack put %1 in pack
alias gw sequence get %1; wear %1

and myriad more complicated things. I always figured this was pretty standard practice. Most MU*s that I've visited have had some sort of aliasing, yet I've seen many folks log on and bail when their "usual" command (e.g. "scan") doesn't work, without any evidence of knowing about the possibility of setting aliases... so perhaps it's not as standard in the mud community as I thought.

Anybody else have any peculiar syntax peeves to share? Commands that you require to work or work in a particular way to maintain your interest in exploring a MU*? Favorite aliases? Perhaps a separate thread so as to avoid hijacking Jaz's quest for the Ideal Mud.

R.
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Old 09-05-2002, 07:42 AM   #4
Jazuela
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Old 09-05-2002, 03:01 PM   #5
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There's nothing wrong with being picky. But no game out there will meet all of your preferences. IMO, I think each player needs to decide what they are and are not willing to put up with, because something will always come up that is frustrating, even on the game that best suits your tastes.

If admin issues or lack of rp are two big things you won't put up with, but auto-combat is something you can deal with, it sounds like giving DartMud another chance would be worth doing. If you are interested in focusing on RP and not on gaining skills/leveling/advancing stats, I would recommend trying a Mush instead of a Mud. It likely won't have all the mechanics you are used to, but if you choose well, you'll meet a lot of great rpers who can guide you toward other games as well.

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Old 09-05-2002, 04:20 PM   #6
Jazuela
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Very true Sapphar. I don't "need" combat mechanics, as long as my character never needs to get involved in combat. If part of the game requires being confronted with a combat situation, however, I wouldn't be capable/remotely interested in playing unless there was an actual manual combat system. Even in situations like PKing - if my character automatically tries to attack, just because someone attacked me, I would really - REALLY - hate that. It would be the single-most significant thing that would drive me from the game. Reason being, once you have an autocombat system, it's no longer roleplaying. It's sitting there are your computer watching the game's mechanics do all the work until one party is dead.

I checked out a couple of MUSH places, but the ones I looked at seem to have no skill commands at all - and are, instead, pure roleplay. I LOVE roleplay. It's the reason I'm interested in gaming in the first place. But I want roleplay with skills that I can get better with (whether by practicing in them or training in them, or being taught by other characters, etc.). Actual skills that show up when you type SKILLS or STATS or whatever, where you can see not only what your character is capable of, but whether or not they're any good at it.

If I'm a novice, compared to someone who has full mastery, I'd like to know that - and not just because Lord So-and-so says so. Someone who is learning to be a master armsman, or leathercrafter, or mage, or cook, knows enough about the skill to judge that "compared to my observations of this other person, I suck goose eggs" or "compared to my observations of the guy who taught me this skill, I'll probably be better than he is in an hour or two." That's where numeric skill "scores" can really help me out.

So if I have 20 ranks of weaponsmithing, and it's possible to have 400 ranks, then I know I have a long way to go before I can make anything worthwhile. If I have 40 ranks of hiding, and it's only possible to have 40 ranks, then I know I ain't gonna ever get any better - I'm the best anyone can possibly be, and I can work on mastering something else.

Even if this info is written out verbally - "You are a master craftsman in the skill of cooking." or "You are barely a novice, with many things to learn before you can consider yourself a journeyman" would be helpful.

So you see, I'm not ALL that picky - but these things need to have some significance in the game I pick. Room descriptions that include things in their descriptions should have at least SOME of those things in each room. I don't think it's necessary to have a sky and a floor "object" - but if there's a room that makes a fuss about how incredibly gorgeous the horizon is, then I should certainly be able to "look horizon" and see an incredibly gorgeous description.

Roleplay - I can find excellent roleplay as I've discovered in many games - Inferno and Armageddon are only two that I've mentioned though there are plenty of others. But when I get into one of the others, and become bombarded by OOC "tells" from well-wishers and helpful veterans, it completely and totally destroys my "suspension of disbelief" and I make a beeline to another game. If I want help, I would ask for it and be grateful for whatever help I get. But if I'm not asking, it's because I don't wanna know. It also means I don't wanna hear the OOC conversations back and forth among other people either. That's what chat rooms are for. Or "RP-encouraged" games are for.

I LOVE mechanics that work. I LOVE room descriptions that are fully interactive. I think dynamic systems are the best thing since sliced bread, though dynamics aren't necessary for me to enjoy the game. I love details into which I can really sink my teeth and become engrossed in my character's surroundings. I can even put up with a "list" of what people are wearing rather than have them included in the description paragraph...though it is a bit jarring at first.
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Old 09-05-2002, 05:49 PM   #7
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I'm with you Jazuela!

I'm leaving Inferno myself.  Not because a problem with a GM, but because I just can't afford it anymore. <g> The jump from $20 to $30 a month is too much, I'm surprised I even started and stayed there as long as I did. I would try the $15 new game, but I don't like PKing and I don't feel like learning to script. (yup, I'm that lazy) I'm not really into hunting anyways.

But what I want is a free (or cheaper) game.  Lots of RP, quests, and pretty easy to start.  I tried DartMud and Armagedon (sp? too sleepy to look it up), but I'm spoiled by Inferno and the way it was so easy to start and jump right in to play, that I just can't get into those games. Especially Armagedon, it really is harsh. *grin*

Anyway, I started playing Dragonrealms and its OK... but I might not stay after my free trail is over. So then I'll new something else to play.
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Old 09-05-2002, 06:41 PM   #8
Jazuela
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Oh I don't mind if the game is difficult or "harsh" like Armageddon. Honestly, I think it's an excellent game and has top roleplayers. Their admin is also terrific, from what I've read on their forum. It's just the 1-dimensional room descriptions and repetitive rooms that make the world so horribly flat for me. I'm spoiled like you are by the richness of detail in Inferno, but since I came from Gemstone, I wouldn't have a problem if the combat mechanics didn't include an engagement system. Either with or without would be fine - as long as it has a *system* and not auto-combat.

But that's why I'm looking for a hybrid. The rich, extraordinary, detailed, and completely interactive room descriptions and objects within the rooms, combined with the realistic and almost limitless RP mechanics of Armageddon. Free, of course, is definitely a big deal right now since I'm unemployed ::grumbles:: still.
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Old 09-05-2002, 07:53 PM   #9
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I was going to reply with a nice, long, rambling post about the wonders of DM. But I decided it would be better in the review section. I suggest you read that, Jazuela, and the reviews of Accursed Lands.

-Krotho
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Old 09-05-2002, 08:23 PM   #10
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Old 09-05-2002, 10:28 PM   #11
Jazuela
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Well Onyx I actually made it past chargen and I LOVE the new "lessons" thing. Only problem, was that I set an alias so that "look at" could be done just by typing "look" and it messed up the whole thing. When I went SOUTH at the prompt during the lesson, it sent me south, but instead of seeing the room, I got an error message saying I couldn't look at that. I had to delete the alias, but it took me awhile to figure out how. Then the lesson just kinda stopped working - didn't go any further and I had to skip the current lesson to get beyond it. I tried to look for a way to communicate "live" with the staff (assuming someone on staff was around of course), but didn't see anything in the helpfiles in game or on the website.

I'm one of the types who soaks up almost everything - I learned that the hard way, and now I read the manual - and in fact if a game promotion here on TMS doesn't include a website, but only the connection info, I won't bother trying to play their game. If it doesn't have manual, I ain't interested.
The more complex, the better - as long as the information is spelled out in plain english. The combat stuff on dartmud, unfortunately, was written in "mobkillerese" so I didn't get it at all. But I'm sure if I decide to actually try and kill something, I'll find someone to give me a hand.

Room descriptions were pretty good in the first place on Dartmud, though I did notice a couple of duplicate rooms in my first hour with my new character. But yeah I like objects. I have a "thing" for them. And I'm a total nitpicker when it comes to writing, but I've learned to get over that.

Some of the character names in Dartmud though - man they're just horrible. One guy's name - jeez I don't think even HE could pronounce it if he tried. Looked like he just let his cat walk on the keyboard when it came time to pick his name.

So how do you send a "report" to staff if you need their help with something?
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Old 09-06-2002, 04:43 AM   #12
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Old 09-06-2002, 07:49 AM   #13
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Old 09-06-2002, 04:27 PM   #14
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