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Old 02-16-2006, 05:58 AM   #81
Sinuhe
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In retrospect:

I just want to repeat the motive for starting this new thread about a question that had already been beaten to death in several other threads.
After 8 new pages of more or less off-topic arguments, there has still been no reaction, neither positive nor negative, from the list owner, Synozeer, to this proposition.

My above post has really nothing to do with the basic and initial question about a search engine for commercial versus non-commercial muds. It was just an attempt to explain the motives and mechanisms behind the wilful diversion of the discussion from the actual issue, by certain interest.

And the basic issue still is this:
There is a concrete demand for a function in the search engine to discern whether a mud on the list is commercial or non-commercial, and in the extension, in what form the business idea is implemented. The basis for the demand is a feeling that such a function would improve the quality of the listing and the Website.

So far most posts seem to confirm that such a function would provide a valid and appreciated information to the customers, (which in the case of the list functions would rather be players in search of a new mud to play than the owners of said muds). To a great majority of these players, information like this would be interesting, valid and wanted.

In regard to the mud owners, a majority of the muds in the list are DIKU based, and as such bound by the licence. (I think in this context we can disregard the few rogue muds that wilfully break the licence). Consequently it would be safe to assume that a majority of the listed muds would like the search engine to contain this information.

The decision about implementing or not implementing such a system can only be taken by the list owner, and it should be based on an unbiased evaluation of the pros and cons. If, as has been hinted, the decision would be in any way be influenced by the opinion of certain mudowners, based on whether they pay or not pay for advertisements on the Website, this would be regrettable, to say the least, and also in a sad way reflect on the issue itself, whether or not money can buy you advantages in treatment.
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:15 AM   #82
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It takes exactly one instance to establish that what you're selling can affect gameplay. There are dozens of people playing Carrion Fields. The idea that none of them have ever, even in the slightest, been affected in-game by what you guys sell is naive, at best, and severely misunderstands the pervasiveness of inter-player communication (which you cannot monitor since they can just do it off-game).


If there are consequences, gameplay has been affected. The consequences themselves are evidence of that. Punishing someone after the fact doesn't remove the influence. Claiming that because it's punished afterwards it has no effect is like saying Blizzard isn't affected by gold-farming because it's against their policy.

Keep in mind that nobody is saying this has a huge impact on Carrion Fields. My guess is that the impact is quite small, but you can't really have a check box that says, "Optional payments may have an effect...but it's small" without a way to tangibly measure that effect, and someplace to draw a line along the continuum from small effect to much larger effect.

--matt
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:16 AM   #83
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You're not asking for accurate labeling. You're asking for selective labeling designed to attack other MUDs.

--matt
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Old 02-16-2006, 12:10 PM   #84
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The problem is, if it's purely an attack, it's an ill-considered one.

MUDs draw different kinds of players.

Some will prefer the things that come with a commercial MUD and have no problem with the idea that some players will be paying for perks so that others can play a MUD with a paid staff for free.

Others prefer the good and bad that comes with a purely free game. Others still prefer a game with up-front or monthly fees to play but no other exchange of money.

Come up with verbage that casts each in a favorable light, but let players find the kind of game they want to play. None of these models is inherently better for all players, just as differing stances on RP or PK are better for all players.

For five minutes, let's assume that the_logos isn't trying to weasel around anything and that Valg is not attempting to kick him in the crotch. Drop all the animosity just long enough to ask yourself: What benefits players the most? What would best help me insure that the people who find my game really want to play this kind of game?
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Old 02-16-2006, 12:58 PM   #85
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To quote the_logos
Geez logos, I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse, or if it's something worse. I'll tell you what, you come play CF for a while, and try to claim you're some kind of VIP because of an email address. I promise our players will laugh at you, if they don't ignore you outright. I can say with 100% certainty that your email address is irrelevant when playing CF.

Our players OOC personas certainly do develop reputations, but it has nothing at all to do with money, donations or email addresses. They'll generally develop over time from playing a good list of characters and being known for making intelligent posts on our forums. In fact it's kind of a ritual on CF, when a reknowned character dies off everyone wants to know who played him or her, and much discussion ensues. It would be a small effort to read our battlefield posts to understand.

Dude, several of us even asked YOU to post the fair list of labels you would like to see. How is THAT selective labeling?! But naturally, you refused. The bottom line is that it would be much better for the players who come to TMS to have an accurate list of information about each MUD listed here. The only people who don't seem to be in favor of it are you, the people that work with you, and the people that buy their code base from you.

One might start to think you were trying to decieve us!
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Old 02-16-2006, 01:18 PM   #86
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A few other thoughts. I'd like to see more entries added to the category search listing in the drop down box on the main page. Ex: RP Required, RP Encouraged, RP Accepted, Open PK, PK Restricted, No PK, World Size. I also think it would be beneficial to players to have the top list on the main page cycle through the categories at regular intervals instead of only showing the total votes list.
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Old 02-16-2006, 01:49 PM   #87
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(I added the break into the paragraph I'm quoting for clarity.)

I agree with the first part. The site gains utility if it can quickly guide players to the kind of game they're looking for. If they don't want to play a roleplaying-required game, they won't be happy on our game! Send them elsewhere! Drop-down menus would accelerate that process.

I disagree with the second part, at least in the sense of an arbitrary rotation. The present system rewards games for sending a lot of traffic here, and diluting that could hurt the incentives which drive that traffic and keep the site active. A couple of sortable categories might be a nice alternative though, so the player could just see a list of the games they'd want to play.
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