[Misha Locke]

This is not toward any certain game on here, and is just my views on why I usually
leave MUDs even during, and after character creation...

1. Character creation is too long, and boring. I like making it easy to create my character, and it not taking ages upon ages unless -I- want to. I left your MUD.

2. Whenever I'm done creating a character, I usually expect some sort of direction to go toward. What do I do next? If there's nothing in help files, or nothing an NPC says I left your MUD.

3. Inner circles and cliques? I left your MUD.

4. Immature, unfriendly, and just plain rude members and immortals. If I see anyone act out, especially an immortal I left your MUD.

5. Leveling up takes ages upon ages... I hate whenever I have to kill so many MOBs so many times just to level up. I've seen MUDs/MUSHES/etc with this. I usually hate having it take all day to level up. I also do not like 'level required' equipment. Example: Must be level 10 to use iron bow and arrows. I left your MUD...

6. Final statement; No one greets me, your playerbase is smaller than advertised, and you just generally ignore newbies to your MUD. I left your MUD

The latest trend on most MUDs; I hate other players who refuse to help newbies.

[shevegen]

Some points I agree with, some others I don't.

For instance, 2) I don't think it is the job of the MUD to babysit your character. And if you don't want to make any effort at all to find out whether the MUD is playable or not, then I don't think it is a loss to lose such a player either.

(1) I agree with.

(3) It depends. In my experience it was often said by some players who use other communications (like ICQ) who suddenly start the clique-metagaming on their own. It is often over-exaggerated. And if the underlying MUD code base is to one's liking, cliques won't be able to affect much (But I somewhat agree with you in a larger note, insofar that some players may purposely want to drive other players away. This is something that did not really exist ~20 years ago in the extent that I see it today. I think people got more aggressive on the WWW, at least some. )

(5) No idea about Levels because I don't play any MUDs with "levels". Levels are not a concept behind a virtual character. It seems to fit more into a hack and slay environment, where level 50 guys beat up level 30 guys. Is this any fun to you? To me it is not.
However the theme about taking time to become stronger exists in many games. You can't remove this easily, because that way you make your loyal players "stronger" and thus more interested in the game.


(6.) No one greets me.

Greets you where or how exactly? IC or OOCly?
Playerbase - it is a problem. Some players are just the type of "play to maximize all, then leave" style. You cant really have a MUD with such player types.

I think what is more interesting is which MUDs you found interesting (if you were to name not more than three).

[Misha Locke]

OOCly, you could say I suppose. I've been greeted ICly on Ateraan and OOCly there.

The three MUDs I actually found interesting would be Ateraan, Alter Aeon, and there's one more, but I sadly forgot the name due to forgetting it.

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by shevegen Some points I agree with, some others I don't. For instance, 2) I don't think it is the job of the MUD to babysit your character. And if you don't want to make any effort at all to find out whether the MUD is playable or not, then I don't think it is a loss to lose such a player either.

Personally I consider (2) a pretty serious issue.

Last year someone posted their experiences as a new player on various muds, and one of their comments really struck a chord with me: "I have no idea what to do from here. Interest lost, it was great up until this point, but there is no obvious direction to continue."

I've found myself in the same position on numerous occasions - I'm sitting on some mud, with no idea what I'm supposed to do next. I get bored. I quit. And so many times, I've heard newbies asking "What do I do now?" - or simply quit after reaching a point where they obviously didn't know what they were supposed to do next.

Muds are supposed to be fun, but having no idea what you're supposed to be doing is not fun. It's frustrating, and rapidly becomes boring. It's no coincidence that most muds have some sort of newbie school or tutorial, but if you're not careful those can also become boring - and if you just dump the player out of a guided experience and into a completely freeform one, all you've really done is postpone the problem.

Personally I prefer having some sort of tutorial mode that can be used whenever the player wishes. They can ignore it if they already know what they want to do, but if they ever get stuck they can use it to find out what to do next. In effect, it's an automation of the response given to newbies when they ask "What should I do now?", tailored to their specific situation.

[Misha Locke]

Originally Posted by KaVir Personally I consider (2) a pretty serious issue. I've found myself in the same position on numerous occasions - I'm sitting on some mud, with no idea what I'm supposed to do next. I get bored. I quit. And so many times, I've heard newbies asking "What do I do now?" - or simply quit after reaching a point where they obviously didn't know what they were supposed to do next.

This is what I meant. I did not exactly mean the game babysits you. I would not even mind a help file such as help WHATNOW -- or even a tutorial like you said.

I found a game last night which had a help file like this. I still got somewhat lost, because whenever you read a sign, and go the direction to a village/city you never exactly go straight to it. You're basically stuck on some road.. -__-

Needless to say, I left their MUD.

Meh, I just left a MUD because it was so boring, and there was no help besides someone giving me a tour. -_-

The latest dislike on some MUDs; I hate other players who refuse to help newbies.

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by Misha Locke I would not even mind a help file such as help WHATNOW -- or even a tutorial like you said.

I proposed "a command or dynamic help file" because they're passive rather than active - you just access them if/when you need them, and can follow or ignore the suggestions as you see fit. It's less intrusive, it's there's when you need it but doesn't force you to jump through any hoops.

However the important part is that the suggestions are context sensitive, so if it were done with a help file it would need to be dynamic. Relatively few muds support dynamic help files, and even those that do may find it preferable to use a command.

Almost all muds have a "who" command. I'd like to see more offering a "what" command as well

[Misha Locke]

It seems most MUDs bore me like no tomorrow as of late. :< I can't even get into the MUD I found interesting last night because of the users. >->



You tell Jordan: Yes, but I assumed no one would really help either
way.
>
Jordan tells you: Well, you're new and I can help bring you to town through ooc
means.


Jordan tells you: I would stick to town for awhile, meet people, train in the
training grounds or go plant things, fish, or find others to
show you around for more things to do.
tell jordan So.. because I'm new is why people refuse to help?
You tell Jordan: So.. because I'm new is why people refuse to help?
> Jordan tells you: Let me know if you need help.
tell jordan Ah, of course.. That's like any other MMORPG, or any new game out there though. XD
You tell Jordan: Ah, of course.. That's like any other MMORPG, or any new game
out there though. XD

^ Implying that because I am new, no one would help me. Bah, what a boring game.

This is funny too

Jordan tells you: Believe me, this is rare for me. We prefer our players to
figure things out themselves while in character.

Implying that I should be IC to figure out a way to help myself.

Overall; I left that game, and only met one decent person. I interacted with other users, and they weren't much, if any help.

[Tristan1992]

Originally Posted by Misha Locke This is not toward any certain game on here, and is just my views on why I usually leave MUDs even during, and after character creation... 1. Character creation is too long, and boring. I like making it easy to create my character, and it not taking ages upon ages unless -I- want to. I left your MUD. 2. Whenever I'm done creating a character, I usually expect some sort of direction to go toward. What do I do next? If there's nothing in help files, or nothing an NPC says I left your MUD. 3. Inner circles and cliques? I left your MUD. 4. Immature, unfriendly, and just plain rude members and immortals. If I see anyone act out, especially an immortal I left your MUD. 5. Leveling up takes ages upon ages... I hate whenever I have to kill so many MOBs so many times just to level up. I've seen MUDs/MUSHES/etc with this. I usually hate having it take all day to level up. I also do not like 'level required' equipment. Example: Must be level 10 to use iron bow and arrows. I left your MUD... 6. Final statement; No one greets me, your playerbase is smaller than advertised, and you just generally ignore newbies to your MUD. I left your MUD The latest trend on most MUDs; I hate other players who refuse to help newbies.

Pretty good reasons. Well except #5, that doesn't bother me, I kinda like level/align ltd eq.

[Realedazed]

I actually agree with a few points. I was playing a game once that had a great tutorial quest. I followed it and got a few levels. Then, it basically said "head east to town and find your destiny" * So I did, eager to find all this content that their ad promised. I was basically in this big world with no clue what to do. I asked about tradeskills, which was the sole reason I tried this game out and it was "something I should think of when I Hit higher levels. *"

*quotes changed to protect the game and that I don't remember them exactly :/

Also I want to add another. I left your game because everything cool needs to be approved by someone before I can play.. The guild applications, character names or even the character itself. Some games are different, like Armageddon, which I don't mind waiting for. I guess because I've been playing there on and off for years. But other games, I have to wait and when I get in, sometimes I'm disappointed. It's kind of a let down.

[Darren Brimhall]

Help files are good, but not good enough.

What's needed is a group whose responcibility is to contact any newbie quickly to help them not only with the basics, but to also give them a 'boost' in the direction they want ther character to go in. Then from time to time check up on them to see if they are moving in their desired direction.

Marrach had the Awakeners, a group created by players dedicated to helping all newbie players get into the Game. But as time went on, and things became colder due to player politics, the group itself became only a shell of its former self--leaving the initial introductions to any player who even cared to help.

In other MUD's the way to do this is for Guilds and Groups with in the Game's Universe to have some of its members be on the look out for strangers that appear in city/town/village/land, get to know them and then try steering them towards becomming a member or the members guild/group. This activity can defeat the reasons Misha setablished for leaving a MUD; The newbie becomes emersed in the MUD, takes interests in what goes on, and in turn helps the MUD grow...

There isn't much I can do about Inner Circles, Cliques, Rude Players, or, in what happened to me with Marrach, being burned by players who lie to staff to get what they want and other players who wanted me to play in the manner they wanted (which in my opinion kills Role Play), except to do what Misha does--go find another MUD to play.

Darren Brimhall

[Darren Brimhall]

Originally Posted by Misha Locke This is funny too Jordan tells you: Believe me, this is rare for me. We prefer our players to figure things out themselves while in character. Implying that I should be IC to figure out a way to help myself.

I got caught in that once: A Key that isn't a Key...

It turned out to be a Statue of a Beaver. Even the person who told me the clue, after the plot was finished, admitted that the clue was way too vague for anyone to figure out.

Darren Brimhall

[Misha Locke]

Marrach had the Awakeners, a group created by players dedicated to helping all newbie players get into the Game. But as time went on, and things became colder due to player politics, the group itself became only a shell of its former self--leaving the initial introductions to any player who even cared to help.

This is the issue with 'groups' or 'guilds' built around to help new players. They end up dying out over time, and they themselves form a clique. I've met plenty of clans, groups, and guilds on non MUD RPG type forums that are like this, or never do their job if it is a staff member job.

But it doesn't matter if I give my opinion about how the guild, group, or staff group is ran, because according to the 'head admin'they are 'just volunteers and don't have to help you'. I think that excuse is overused, and to be quite honest is lame. The best thing we can do is leave that MUD and move on.

I got caught in that once: A Key that isn't a Key... It turned out to be a Statue of a Beaver. Even the person who told me the clue, after the plot was finished, admitted that the clue was way too vague for anyone to figure out.

I usually get caught in these types of things, and to be quite frank is why I leave most MUDs if the answer isn't too obvious, or easy to find.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Misha Locke It seems most MUDs bore me like no tomorrow as of late. :< I can't even get into the MUD I found interesting last night because of the users. >-> You tell Jordan: Yes, but I assumed no one would really help either way. ... This is funny too Jordan tells you: Believe me, this is rare for me. We prefer our players to figure things out themselves while in character. Implying that I should be IC to figure out a way to help myself. Overall; I left that game, and only met one decent person. I interacted with other users, and they weren't much, if any help.

Wowza! This is New Worlds Ateraan and that was our chief of staff who rarely goes that far to help a new player. Not because we don't care about new players, but because the staff at NWA is very busy with 100's of things. On the contrary, NWA is likely the most new player friendly of all the RP enforced games.

We have a staff and guides (junior staff) who soul job is to assist new players in the game and other players issues. We have a full tutorial that is optional to brand new players to text games. We have very well documented help files and a new player system to help them. I think it is one of the best and I think the other players are very interactive but you must also be interactive too.

What you likely found is that we do require you to immerse yourself in your character and the easiest way to become part of the game is to engage in roleplay with others. If you are thinking things are handed on your plate like in WoW, or Facebook, or other online systems that cater to the gimme gimme gimme of today's youth, you likely do get bored in Text games.

[Misha Locke]

Originally Posted by Newworlds Wowza! This is New Worlds Ateraan and that was our chief of staff who rarely goes that far to help a new player. Not because we don't care about new players, but because the staff at NWA is very busy with 100's of things. On the contrary, NWA is likely the most new player friendly of all the RP enforced games. We have a staff and guides (junior staff) who soul job is to assist new players in the game and other players issues. We have a full tutorial that is optional to brand new players to text games. We have very well documented help files and a new player system to help them. I think it is one of the best and I think the other players are very interactive but you must also be interactive too. What you likely found is that we do require you to immerse yourself in your character and the easiest way to become part of the game is to engage in roleplay with others. If you are thinking things are handed on your plate like in WoW, or Facebook, or other online systems that cater to the gimme gimme gimme of today's youth, you likely do get bored in Text games.

He sounded like an unfriendly immortal to begin with, honestly. The game was fine and all until after the user tour with someone who was actually interesting, to be honest. It was late at night here, and I didn't feel like going through it yet due to being tired. Time sure flies by playing text based games.

But honestly? I have to act IN CHARACTER just to get help to go back to the town? That's just silly, to be honest. I liked RP back whenever it wasn't a chore by itself, so I was not going to bother RPing there due to the fact even MUDs are getting the clique virus. I've lost interest in RP over the years due to people bringing their drama to the IC table, which is what the users there do.

I've lost interest in the game now, because of the way he acted, and because of the things I've heard from various people about this game.


P.S WoW doesn't even tell you what to do, you do whatever you want after character creating

[Misha Locke]

lzheni <CHAT> no one cares about your half hearted trolling attempts
Tiberia <CHAT> dont be afraid of the big words
You have lost access to ooc channels!
Alzheni <CHAT> Well, some of them do, but that's because they are dumb
Zikuski <CHAT> go troll somewhere else
<CHAT> Mela likes neopets
Sadon <CHAT> Hey, Koreg.

[************--Rumour Monger--************]
Tunk dies a horrible death!
[*****************************************]

Koreg <CHAT> Hi.
Quidon <CHAT> Neopets will change bad words into something else. That can get
frustrating.
Linnie <CHAT> whooo Myrthal!
Sadon <CHAT> don't send him to neo-pets.
Walter <CHAT> Sasami will, regretably, be unable to continue any chat rants
Koreg <CHAT> tooo late.
Sadon <CHAT> send him to habbo or something.
Alzheni <CHAT> Walter wins
Tiberia <CHAT> hahahaha
Quidon <CHAT> YAY! WALTER I PROFESS MY UNDYING LOVE FOR YOU!
<CHAT> Syath cheers enthusiastically!
Evanear <CHAT> it's all clearly an act to get some attention. so I say,
"weren't you going to leave this game cuz we all suck? By all
means... don't let the doorknob hit you on the ass on the way
out. See you. Bye."
<CHAT> Ayumi votes for Walter.
Alzheni <CHAT> Unsuccessful Troll - YouTube <-- this song is for
Walter
Evanear <CHAT> oops
<CHAT> Zikuski cheers for walter
tell Walter Faggot
You tell Walter: Faggot
> Arkaanon <CHAT> thank you very much Walter
tell Walter You all are faggots
You tell Walter: You all are faggots
> Evanear <CHAT> and, let me link you, Ayu. to the first song, that is
Zikuski <CHAT> goes to vote
Mela <CHAT> Thank you Walter
tell Quidon At least you were nice.
You don't know anyone named Quidon.
> You have been sent to a holding jail for poor game play!
tell Walter Fag
You are not able to do that in jail.
> Quidon <CHAT> If she bangs us on TMS, we should just take a log of her chat
session here. I mean. Seriously. Who likes people who gaybash?
Quidon <CHAT> Koreg, don't answer.
<CHAT> Koreg slowly raises a hand silently
Ocypete <CHAT> She's already been bitching about NW on TMS. I'm totally posting
a log.
Ocypete <CHAT> In her ****ing thread.
tell Quidon I am bashing this poorly made game.
You are not able to do that in jail.
> Quidon <CHAT> I told you to not answer, love. I WANT to like you.
Mela <CHAT> TMS?
Tiberia <CHAT> sweet
Quidon <CHAT> Top Mud?
Linnie <CHAT> already>
Mela <CHAT> Oh
Quidon <CHAT> For a few days now, actually. Her name is Misha Locke
Koreg <CHAT> Oh, I don't have a problem with 'em. I just like getting a rise
out of them. all my gay friends know this.
Quidon <CHAT> You're not a fruitfly then, you'rea fruit HORSE fly. You biter.
<CHAT> Ayumi pouts
Evanear <CHAT> what
Ayumi <CHAT> E, I still get an error
Koreg <CHAT> haha
<CHAT> Evanear sighs
Evanear <CHAT> i think you just have a messed up computer!
Zikuski <CHAT> where are these threads?
Ayumi <CHAT> It says " Error (404) - We can't find the page you're looking for.
Check out our FAQ or forums for help. Or maybe you should try
heading home."
Evanear <CHAT> on a spool.
Ayumi <CHAT> But I am home...
<CHAT> Evanear grins mischievously
Quidon <CHAT> http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/se...searchid=47099
Quidon <CHAT> That should show all of her posts? She's not incredibly
gramatical

Unedited proof.. I find it funny how they were going to post the chat log here.

[Misha Locke]

How mature, New Worlds. Are you really going to waste your time bashing me?

[nazgulbane]

Originally Posted by Misha Locke lzheni <CHAT> no one cares about your half hearted trolling attempts Tiberia <CHAT> dont be afraid of the big words You have lost access to ooc channels! Alzheni <CHAT> Well, some of them do, but that's because they are dumb Zikuski <CHAT> go troll somewhere else <CHAT> Mela likes neopets Sadon <CHAT> Hey, Koreg. [************--Rumour Monger--************] Tunk dies a horrible death! [*****************************************] Koreg <CHAT> Hi. Quidon <CHAT> Neopets will change bad words into something else. That can get frustrating. Linnie <CHAT> whooo Myrthal! Sadon <CHAT> don't send him to neo-pets. Walter <CHAT> Sasami will, regretably, be unable to continue any chat rants Koreg <CHAT> tooo late. Sadon <CHAT> send him to habbo or something. Alzheni <CHAT> Walter wins Tiberia <CHAT> hahahaha Quidon <CHAT> YAY! WALTER I PROFESS MY UNDYING LOVE FOR YOU! <CHAT> Syath cheers enthusiastically! Evanear <CHAT> it's all clearly an act to get some attention. so I say, "weren't you going to leave this game cuz we all suck? By all means... don't let the doorknob hit you on the ass on the way out. See you. Bye." <CHAT> Ayumi votes for Walter. Alzheni <CHAT> Unsuccessful Troll - YouTube <-- this song is for Walter Evanear <CHAT> oops <CHAT> Zikuski cheers for walter tell Walter Faggot You tell Walter: Faggot > Arkaanon <CHAT> thank you very much Walter tell Walter You all are faggots You tell Walter: You all are faggots > Evanear <CHAT> and, let me link you, Ayu. to the first song, that is Zikuski <CHAT> goes to vote Mela <CHAT> Thank you Walter tell Quidon At least you were nice. You don't know anyone named Quidon. > You have been sent to a holding jail for poor game play! tell Walter Fag You are not able to do that in jail. > Quidon <CHAT> If she bangs us on TMS, we should just take a log of her chat session here. I mean. Seriously. Who likes people who gaybash? Quidon <CHAT> Koreg, don't answer. <CHAT> Koreg slowly raises a hand silently Ocypete <CHAT> She's already been bitching about NW on TMS. I'm totally posting a log. Ocypete <CHAT> In her ****ing thread. tell Quidon I am bashing this poorly made game. You are not able to do that in jail. > Quidon <CHAT> I told you to not answer, love. I WANT to like you. Mela <CHAT> TMS? Tiberia <CHAT> sweet Quidon <CHAT> Top Mud? Linnie <CHAT> already> Mela <CHAT> Oh Quidon <CHAT> For a few days now, actually. Her name is Misha Locke Koreg <CHAT> Oh, I don't have a problem with 'em. I just like getting a rise out of them. all my gay friends know this. Quidon <CHAT> You're not a fruitfly then, you'rea fruit HORSE fly. You biter. <CHAT> Ayumi pouts Evanear <CHAT> what Ayumi <CHAT> E, I still get an error Koreg <CHAT> haha <CHAT> Evanear sighs Evanear <CHAT> i think you just have a messed up computer! Zikuski <CHAT> where are these threads? Ayumi <CHAT> It says " Error (404) - We can't find the page you're looking for. Check out our FAQ or forums for help. Or maybe you should try heading home." Evanear <CHAT> on a spool. Ayumi <CHAT> But I am home... <CHAT> Evanear grins mischievously Quidon <CHAT> http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/se...searchid=47099 Quidon <CHAT> That should show all of her posts? She's not incredibly gramatical Unedited proof.. I find it funny how they were going to post the chat log here.

Hi. I'm a player of NW. Not that anybody needed any further evidence of your immature actions, but, here's a section of the previous log you chose not to include for some strange reason.

Sasami <CHAT> You were a complete ******
Arkaanon <CHAT> ****** is not acceptable
Koreg <CHAT> heya sasami? You can hate all you want, but read help respect,
hm?
<CHAT> Zikuski thinks sasami has some pent up issues
Linnie <CHAT> yeah, lets not say that on chat
Sasami <CHAT> ******?
Koreg <CHAT> then show a bit of respect after done reading said helpfile.
Quidon <CHAT> And if I'm a ***, BOY am I playing my character well. After all,
I'm a girl IRL playing a gay dude IC.
> Alzheni <CHAT> Successful Troll is Successful - YouTube
<CHAT> Evanear smooches Quidon lovingly
Alzheni <CHAT> This song is for everyone on chat
Sasami <CHAT> I can't say ****** up in front of some ******* face?
Ayumi <CHAT> Also, Evanear, you still didn't manage to send me your last song
Tiberia <CHAT> quidon hahahaha
Mela <CHAT> ...
<CHAT> Linnie hugs Quidon
Zikuski <CHAT> help respect, sasami
Alzheni <CHAT> Dude, you are clearly a 14 year old boy, you should probably
continue playing Runescape or something
Zikuski <CHAT> read it
Koreg <CHAT> then go to Dictionary.com | Find the Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com and look up respect.
<CHAT> Evanear rolls on the floor laughing
Tiberia <CHAT> icant resist
Sasami <CHAT> At least WoW and Runescape has a more active player base.
Myrthal <CHAT> dont hate on runescape
Koreg <CHAT> alzheni..runescape is past him. I'd recommennd neopets.
Alzheni <CHAT> no one cares about your half hearted trolling attempts

I think it's very unfortunate that I, many other players, and staff, greeted you with nothing but the respect that everybody deserves, and you responded in such a disingenuous and inappropriate fashion. Particularly that you choose to attack a player that kindly spent a good portion of her evening yesterday bending over backward to try and help you.

[Misha Locke]

Originally Posted by nazgulbane Hi. I'm a player of NW. Not that anybody needed any further evidence of your immature actions, but, here's a section of the previous log you chose not to include for some strange reason. I think it's very unfortunate that I, many other players, and staff, greeted you with nothing but the respect that everybody deserves, and you responded in such a disingenuous and inappropriate fashion. Particularly that you choose to attack a player that kindly spent a good portion of her evening yesterday bending over backward to try and help you.

Oh, and I also would not suggest any other NW players to register on here. They are wasting their time by registering, and coming in this thread to bash on someone over a MUD, a text-based game.

[Davairus]

Don't feed the troll. Mods? Eject this guy please. Misha, if you ever play and leave my MUD, I sincerely hope it is because someone slaughtered you mercilessly, full looted your corpse, and sacrificed your heart to the dark lord, but I'll happily settle for you never making it through boring character creation.

[Misha Locke]

Originally Posted by Davairus Don't feed the troll. Mods? Eject this guy please. Misha, if you ever play and leave my MUD, I sincerely hope it is because someone slaughtered you mercilessly, full looted your corpse, and sacrificed your heart to the dark lord, but I'll happily settle for you never making it through boring character creation.

The "mods" won't do anything, because none of what I said was on this forum. I never will play your MUD, let alone play any other MUDs on this site. They're all a waste of my time, to be honest.

Edit: There you go, troll face on