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Old 11-23-2006, 12:03 PM   #1
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I've been on many muds where if you want to PK someone, you have to have a log of the event, then turn off a nopk flag, then actually do the deed, and then after all of that you have to PM the RP IMM with details of your reasons, the log, etc.

How do you all feel about those systems? Specifically do you feel choked by a system like that, or do you love the RP flavor that it forces?

I'm almost not sure how I feel about it. Kind of a love-hate thing . On the one hand, I'm an RPer and not really a PKer. BUT on the other hand I enjoy having the constant threat of PK happening should you RPly insult the wrong person!

I feel like the need to fill all of those requirements can sometimes take the spontanity out of such encounters, and in some cases even cause a person to act in a way their character wouldn't. Sort of going OOCly, "Okay, I should be trying to kick his ass for that comment... but I really don't feel like going through all the steps. I'll let this one go."

Now on the other hand, it does seem to favor the people who can really be dedicated to their RP. But I sort of feel like it might cut off the people who are slightly more casual players.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:52 PM   #2
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I would feel very stifled by it. I rarely log--it seems to create some lag for me, and you don't want lag especially in a PK situation. I can understand its necessity however in a game with permadeath. Then a death would have serious repurcussions, so should be done only with a lot of thought and imm approval.
The game I play allows for PvP without killing. You can attack somebody in stunmode, which results in bringing the enemy only to the brink of death and knocking them out. I hope that the muds that require all the logging and approval, and especially those with permadeath, have similar solutions in place. Arguments and confrontations are definitely more exciting when you never know if they'll break into action.
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Old 11-24-2006, 01:03 AM   #3
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I played a mud like this for a long time. What I see are people that play for pk (or just enjoy it a little to much or something) and can rp an excuse for their char to kill anyone usually. Then there are the people that really do rp and would never think of pking for any other reason than a reason their character has.

This system seems to be of only usual slight hindrance to both anyone wanting to pk for any reason in an RP focused mud. In my opinion the Pk is gonna happen regardless. If they force you to give reasons they will be given (good, bad, or faked) if they dont then the rp will just happen for equally good bad or faked reasons. Its just a nuisance.
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Old 11-24-2006, 02:33 PM   #4
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I like a little stifling, but not too much. There really needs to be a balance. In my game, PK is rare enough that you basically call an admin ref down to make sure the battle is fair, but it doesn't require you to justify yourself. What happens happens, and your character will deal with the consequences of being branded an outlaw and whatnot. Being permadeath really helps in that regard to make sure that everyone really means it.
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:21 AM   #5
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The only reason I can think of for a log sent to the staff, would be if the character is of some significant authority/influence. Like a clan leader, or someone with the coded ability to send NPC minions on someone. This would be mostly to ensure the staff that they have entrusted the player appropriately with that kind of authority (I'm assuming that only trusted players get to even -have- that kind of authority). Some players might roleplay characters who start out at the bottom and organically rise to a position like that. But once they're in that position, it makes sense for them to be required to prove their value. If they engage in ooc twinkery, it can cause serious IC problems and that to me is where fair/unfair comes in. I have no problem with the idea of sending logs to staff when a "person in a position of authority" takes down another character.

I think it would be crazy for -every- character in a game to have to send a log in. I mean shoot - stuff happens. Low-life assassins hired to kill some annoying but equally low-life ordinary citizen shouldn't need a lot of OOC red tape.

The whole permission in advance thing is just plain outrageously ridiculous. Unless of course there is a staff member available to respond immediately, with an equally immediate course of action. But try finding a game that has a 1:1 ratio of staff to non-staff, where each assigned staff member is logged in and available during exactly the same time as its assigned player, heh. That is probably the only way I'd even consider a "permission-in-advance" system.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:44 AM   #6
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I have played MUDs where this was necessary and found it extremely stifling. I may sway that way though more than the average player because although I do not play MUDs solely for the purpose of pkilling people it is a part of the mudding experience that I grealt enjoy (more so than roleplaying). On the other hand I could see where there could be rules where you could/would be punished for pkilling someone who their was obviously no RP reason whatsoever. (ie. A paladin kills a cleric of a goodly god and loots their eq)
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:18 PM   #7
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As far as PKing is concerned, I admit that it does add a certain degree to any type of MUD, no matter the engine it runs off of or the code base.

However, there should be a set limitation or reprimands/consequences for PKing. The best I've found exists on, with the Revenge system. Recently, I've been experimenting with, a down product (bought from the creator) of the original RAPTURE system created by Their PK system, like any of the RAPTURE systems (no matter how modified) isn't simply hack and slash like many modern and old-school based engines and systems (DiKu, Monkey, DoT, WoW, LoE).

Unfortunately, I ran into an incident today where the Administration go about PKing players without any IC purpose, which is extremely bad for any commercial or non commercial MUD of any sorts, especially if they lack a dedicated player base (because as we all know, its the players that make the game). If you kill your players without good cause (don't give me the rubbish of "we're gods. we can do as we like"), you're going to lose your player base and possibly dedicated clientelle.

There are three major rules when it comes to building a good commercial MUD or non-commercial MUD.

1. Continued expansion on abilities and areas.
2. Dedicated faculty.
3. Keeping the masses of current and future clients happy and appeased. (That means listening to their complaints, which will always out weight the praise).

PK is a good quality to add to a game, but with anything good, too much can be a bad thing. Example would be the WoT muds.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:54 PM   #8
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Playerkilling on RPI-muds is usually free game as long as it's done in character and for a viable reason. The reason could be anything depending on the individual character, as long as you don't just randomly murder someone without roleplaying it. This essentially means that if you're playing a crazed madman, you'll get away (OOCly) with walking up to a stranger and stabbing them in the face, although you may not like the IC consequences that your character might face.

There are muds that are designed for free-for-all playerkilling, and some that aren't. Muds like Armageddon and Shadows of Isildur obviously need to have it because it wouldn't be 100% realistic without it. The concept of full playerkilling and permanent death adds another aspect to the game that you just can't get if dying means you lose 10% experience or have to spend 20 minutes finding your stuff afterwards.

As for logging the events, I can only speak for ArmageddonMUD which is where I play. It depends a lot on your character - generally, if you're in a lawful clan, the clan imm will probably prefer that you send them a brief explanation if you murder someone. If you're an independent hunter who happens to get into a confrontation in the wilderness and end up killing your opponent, noone expects you to do anything. If the dead character's player files a complaint, the staff will look through the logs themselves and see if it happened in a reasonable manner, and if not, the killer will usually be told why and asked not to do so again. Kill for a good reason and you shouldn't get in any OOC trouble.
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Old 04-13-2007, 01:28 PM   #9
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I personally hate restrictions on character conflict beyond in-game "laws," pressures and consequences, other than a requirement that mortal conflict result from role-play. No psychopaths or serial killers. No killing for killing's sake. And while it's true that people can come up with IC justification at the drop of a hat, it's not hard to tell role-play from excuse. To me, IC consequences hurt a heck of a lot more than lectures and suspensions, or even bans. I like the mercenary solution, either powerful PCs or GM-played bounty hunters laying the smack down on murderers and naking everything they have. Et cetera. Let them leave of their own accord if they can't handle the repercussions of what they've done. My policy goes something like:

Pick on whomever ya want. Bully whomever ya want. But don't whine when what goes around comes back around about a hundred times. If you don't want a badass to smack you down, don't mouth off. If someone you can't handle is insulting you and trying to draw you into a scrum, don't let him. Walk away and hire someone to kick his ass. Above all, keep it IC. Anyone who runs around killing just because he can will be dealt with severely.
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