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Old 02-07-2004, 08:30 PM   #1
Xorith
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I feel it does everyone who is or has considered IMC2 justice to bring a conflict into the public light.

The forums over at MudDomain.com/IMC contain most of what's going on. In essence, there's a conflict between ICE-MAN and MudDomain. This conflict is turning quite ugly, and I am no innocent in this. I fully admit to taking my fair share of stabs and low-blows.

However, Kris - the manager of ICE-MAN - has gone a few steps lower. While I've said some pretty nasty and down-right dispicable things to and about Kris and Rogel respectively, I have not lied nor put words in their mouths. Kris has a post on his own forums that blatently lies about my actions and reactions to his not-so-public request for me to cease yet another attempt to low-blow Rogel.

To further this, Samson attempted to gain an apology from Kris and Rogel for Rogel's blatent harassment and less-than-professional attitude with things. Kris has deleted two of his attempts, and has banned my forum account for no yet apparent reason.

Why am I bringing this to light? Because you should know your network before you try to join it. Kris claims in his 'Founding Document' to be all for Freedom of Speech, and that he wants to prevent certain rules being 'made up'. He attacks I3 in it more or less, and his fair banishment from the protocol for violating a channel ban. Yet, through all this, my very simple request for him to either remove or clarify his post has resulted in a banning of my account.

I could very well tack on a cheesey ad for MudDomain's IMC2 network, but I'm posting personally and I'll leave it up to the readers to form their own opinions after viewing what's been said.

Again - I accept responsibility for my actions. Was I wrong? I don't believe I was. I think I was in my right to express how I felt. However, for one who constantly claims that Rogel's words and actions are not the official words and actions of his network, he has crossed a serious line in his false accusations. Yes, I took a low shot. Yes, I was very vulgar and down-right rude over the bridge-chat channel. I do openly apologize to anyone *else* who had to listen to my venting. That goes for the whole of MudWorld. But not to ICE-MAN nor Kris.

Well I'll let you all figure things out.

-- Xorith
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:05 PM   #2
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Xorith @ Feb. 07 2004,20:30)
I feel it does everyone who is or has considered IMC2 justice to bring a conflict into the public light.

The forums over at MudDomain.com/IMC contain most of what's going on. In essence, there's a conflict between ICE-MAN and MudDomain. This conflict is turning quite ugly, and I am no innocent in this. I fully admit to taking my fair share of stabs and low-blows.
I don't understand, why does an essentially private spat on another forum need to be brought to this forum?  Surely ICEMAN and MudDomain can sort it out on their own forum.  There are enough flame wars here already, I don't think we need one from another forum.
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:11 PM   #3
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For clarification purposes only:

Xorith is part of Mud Domain, not ICE-MAN.

My only involvement in this is that I did in fact request a public apology on the ICE-MAN forum. The request was deleted 3 different times. I was given no reason for why, no warnings, nothing. Just deleted posts. I honestly don't think it's an unreasonable request. Especially for anyone who knows the history involved.
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:30 PM   #4
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Ok, but why bring it here?
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:31 PM   #5
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The reason is simple. IMC2 stands for Inter MUD Chat 2. There are currently four entities that I know of that allow this: Three IMC2 networks - MudDomain, MudWorld, and ICE-MAN. MudWorld being private and MudDomain being the only truely public network (meaning you don't have to fill out any forms - simply follow the instructions). ICE-MAN is public as well, but does not use AutoSetup. However I've heard that the response time from an application is quite fast. The last one is I3, which is another entirely different beast.

Now, joining a network isn't entirely difficult. But MUD admins should understand what they're walking into before they do so. I'm tired of these things being kept in the dark so an unknown Admin fills out a form or connects to a Hub without fully knowing what they're logging into. Most people are honorable in that they will stick it out with a network even if they don't agree. Others won't care and will leave regardless.

This is simply a heads-up to what's going on. InterMUD needs to shape up - big time. Myself is included in this, I am not pleading any sort of innocence. The quarrel between ICE-MAN and MudDomain will probably never rest. The stories of the birth of the conflict are different on both sides of the fence. In essence, Mud2Mud shutdown when Trax left the InterMUD world. Samson then gave up IMC2 as well, leaving Rogel (Senir) and Kris to fuel ICE-MAN. After a failed merger with ICE-MAN, MudDomain began to flourish. Samson then came back to IMC2 and a whole flamewar broke out. It since died, but it seems that there are things that will never fully die in the world.

If you require any further validation for my post, please feel free to ask. I have no problem writing novels.

-- Xorith
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:51 PM   #6
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I think most MUD admins are intelligent people that can make decisions based on their own experiences, not someone elses. The problem with slinging mud is that you often get your hands dirty.
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Old 02-08-2004, 12:11 AM   #7
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My hands are already dirty, Jaewyn. I don't think you're grasping the point.

If I don't make these posts in places like this, then some poor unfortunate might stumble upon a network and not research the history of it.

Do I feel I'm doing a favor? Yes. Am I wrong for that? Not sure. I guess though, that it doesn't quite matter as it's one of my rights.

Why are you putting up a fight against someone who's just trying to do a favor? Odd... Oh well. People can be odd sometimes. I'm a prime example of this.

-- Xorith
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Old 02-08-2004, 12:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
I think most MUD admins are intelligent people that can make decisions based on their own experiences, not someone elses.
Yes, most mud admins are perfectly capable of that. But much like the thread regarding Kyndig vs Wolfpaw ( which I must admit I see the point of now ), how are they supposed to make an educated decision unless these things are brought out in the open?

Surely if you went to the ICE-MAN forums you'd not be able to find out. He's deleted all traces of it except for his own inflammatory remarks. Any attempt we made to defend ourselves was removed without cause. This from a network which is openly touting themselves as supporting free speech. However, if you were to come to the Mud Domain forums, you'd see for yourself that the issue is now being aired out and an attempt to settle it is taking place, crude as it may end up.

So the way I'm seeing this is that it's just as much a public issue as the spat between Kyndig and Wolfpaw. Mud Domain and ICE-MAN need to get this settled, but at the same time anyone considering joining up with one or the other has a right to know what's going on and what ICE-MAN is really all about.

And I say this as an official representative. I hope it gets settled quickly, truthfully, and in such a way as to prevent this from ever happening again. I have once more asked Rogel/Senir for an apology, and I have offered him one already for my part in all this. Thus far Kris has refrained from engaging in the same kind of attacks against me so I'm not asking him for anything beyond a satisfactory explanation for why 3 of my posts were deleted.

Time will tell I suppose.
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Old 02-08-2004, 12:26 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by
And I say this as an official representative. I hope it gets settled quickly, truthfully, and in such a way as to prevent this from ever happening again. I have once more asked Rogel/Senir for an apology, and I have offered him one already for my part in all this. Thus far Kris has refrained from engaging in the same kind of attacks against me so I'm not asking him for anything beyond a satisfactory explanation for why 3 of my posts were deleted.
I wish the same here. More so, I wish ICE-MAN to post the truth rather than lies. Again, was I wrong? Perhaps. I don't feel I was considering all that happened, but it was quite childish on my part. I was also quite immature over the bridge chat, again I do not deny any of this. But he didn't mention any of this... he only mentioned lies. Lies that, I feel, degrade my character. Fine, call me on something I've done. Even call me on possibly being a hypocrite for whining in the Kyndig/Wolfpaw thread and then making this one. I admit, it does seem that way. However, don't try to lie to catch me. I screw up enough to give plenty of ammo to anyone who wants to bring me down a notch.

Now back on to the topic of why this is here. Once again, I stress... People should know what goes on in forums where posts are deleted. MudDomain's forums aren't exactly bouncing with activity. So while ICE-MAN continues to express a blatent disrespect for the so-called Freedom of Speech they love so much, they might also be out trying to recruit others to their network. These people, after seeing only lies and remarks that duely fall under libel about MudDomain, will be steered wrongly.

I'm trying to correct that.

We're not perfect. MudDomain - Officially - Is not a perfect network. But... we make a point in admitting it.

-- Xorith
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Old 02-08-2004, 02:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Xorith @ Feb. 08 2004,00:11)
My hands are already dirty, Jaewyn. I don't think you're grasping the point.

If I don't make these posts in places like this, then some poor unfortunate might stumble upon a network and not research the history of it.

Do I feel I'm doing a favor? Yes. Am I wrong for that? Not sure. I guess though, that it doesn't quite matter as it's one of my rights.

Why are you putting up a fight against someone who's just trying to do a favor? Odd... Oh well. People can be odd sometimes. I'm a prime example of this.

-- Xorith
I grasp what it is you are trying to do and I'm not fighting you, what I'm trying to say is that sometimes slinging mud at someone else can make yourself look worse than the one you are slinging mud at.  I'm not saying you're wrong or right, I'm just trying to give some friendly advice.
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Old 02-08-2004, 06:14 AM   #11
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Exclamation

I guess this thread is just another reason to stay clear of _all_ IMC networks. I am impressed by the perseverance of the IMC network admins in making it absolutely clear that joining an IMC network just gives you more trouble than it's worth. This thread, and many like it, proves my point.

Welcor of The Builder Academy
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Old 02-08-2004, 09:56 AM   #12
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And now for some sneak previews of next week on....

...."WHEN GEEKS ATTACK"!!!!!!!



Lord Swordpants from WoT MUD #425634:
"LOL u newb IMC suxxxx"


Elfman the Elf, from the Dark Ages of Mudsex MUD:
"NOOOOOO IMC ru1es, it is 31337, all the h4xx0rz uze it"


Thieves Guildmaster Juvie from Gothic Angst and Smurfs MUD:
"HAHAHA While you losers were arguing I stole the magic ring of +3 timewastage!!!"
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Old 02-08-2004, 12:35 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by
I guess this thread is just another reason to stay clear of _all_ IMC networks. I am impressed by the perseverance of the IMC network admins in making it absolutely clear that joining an IMC network just gives you more trouble than it's worth. This thread, and many like it, proves my point.
I believe your point is, in fact, made moot by how personal it is. If you think the ability to chat with other MUDs is more trouble than it is worth, then so be it. IMC2 networks are just another facet of the MUD community. So just as you can make this completely moot claim, I could turn around and say the same thing about LPMuds given I've had a poor experience with that branch of things.

Though, I do appreciate your personal opinion. However in my case it's over-ruled by the fact that the ability to exchange ideas with others from the comfort of my own MUD makes it very much worthwhile. Many of times I have been stumped on code, and I was able to turn to the community that my MUD is hooked into.

Lets think beyond the bounderies of the specifics here. I've seen this SAME sort of behavior that the ICE-MAN network is showing between MUDs. We've witnessed similar between MUD hosts, and no doubt I could search back and even find MUD resource sites doing it. Putting aside the IMC2 Network part, this sort of behavior needs to be brought to light so it can be prevented.

That's all I'm doing here.

-- Xorith
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Old 02-08-2004, 02:05 PM   #14
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While it is true that the issue may not have needed to be brought up here, it is also true that those of us who do not care to read about it have the freedom to simply disregard it and walk away.
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Old 02-08-2004, 03:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by

Thieves Guildmaster Juvie from Gothic Angst and Smurfs MUD:
"HAHAHA While you losers were arguing I stole the magic ring of +3 timewastage!!!"
That made me snort my milk.
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Old 02-08-2004, 05:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by (prklts @ Feb. 08 2004,14:05)
While it is true that the issue may not have needed to be brought up here, it is also true that those of us who do not care to read about it have the freedom to simply disregard it and walk away.
Fair point, perhaps I should have done this in the first place. *shrug*
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Old 02-08-2004, 10:54 PM   #17
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This topic of conversation doesn't affect me whatsoever, and probably never will. But the principle Xorith is going on here of informing people is a very admirable one. It was something I thought they were trying to do at mu-standards.org (completely differen subject). I, for one, think knowledge is power and those that have posted flames on other boards (same topic) need to grow up. Yes, if you aren't interested in it, DON'T POST Seems simple enough. I think it's great someone is interested in informing others.

Az
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