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Old 12-27-2005, 04:25 PM   #1
Chikatilo
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is there a mud that is/has:

a) classless
b) levelless
c) learn by doing style (no damn lessons)
d) atleast bit complex armed and unarmed combat (SoI or harshland doesnt have, unarmed is fistfighting and all he fights pretty much solve themselfs automatically)
e) rp centered
f) not damn high fantasy
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Old 12-27-2005, 04:40 PM   #2
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Armageddon.

You won't be disappointed.

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Old 12-27-2005, 04:43 PM   #3
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I've tried it..

1) its not classless
2) it doesnt even have unarmed fighting skill
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:00 PM   #4
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The RPI genre is one that lacks a certain diversity, in that there are so very few of them. Release of the SoI/Harshlands collaborative codebase was an attempt to change that, but it hasn't (yet).


So, what does all of this mean for you? It means that you're going to have to, more than likely, settle on some of the current games. Armageddon isn't technically classless, but I do believe there is much room for advancement outside of what your class gives your originally (via the 'teach' command). Armageddon uses the class/subclass system to determine initial abilites a fellow might have based upon their background, not as a stencil for future character development. As such, you could probably learn any skill (assuming you learned the prerequisites, and given a few statistical limits).

For the unarmed combat issue... is it really important? After all, you are after an RPI, and there exists so many opportunities for entertainment and general fun outside of combat, let alone unarmed combat.



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Old 12-27-2005, 06:17 PM   #5
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Armageddon does have an unarmed combat skill, it's just not listed in the skill-list and, as in real life, unarmed combat against a learned, armed opponent is pretty much suicide. Then, there are weapons that or more or less 'knucks' that run off of the slashing/piercing weapon skills, that could easily be RP'd as being an aid to your fists, rather than the primary weapon...

But, unless I'm completely mistaken, there -is- a hidden, generic unarmed skill that will improve, over time. It's just nowhere near as useful as someone wielding a weapon.

Could be wrong, though. Code isn't really my thing. I'm there for the roleplaying.

But, if Arm's not your thing, luck with your search. I'm thinking Mr. Corley is right, though, that if you want a 'learn by doing' and 'RP centered' mud, you're going to have to settle for one of the three RPI's, or maybe Dartmud. I think it has most of your requests covered. Dunno for sure, though.

Again, luck with your search.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:31 PM   #6
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in armageddon there aint unarmed skill, your attack is determined by attacking (or offensive or whatever, dont remember) skill and stats...but, if you choose certain profession does it give limits to skills?

and of course there are alot opportunities rpi's..but why not combat also?

if I want character that can fight well unarmed it doesnt mean that its combat oriented, its not even the main skill...I just kinda want it to be there
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:36 PM   #7
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Pretty much all of the unarmed combat systems I've seen are the same as the games usual combat system, just with bare hands. Would be interesting to take a look at any muds that have a better system to take care of this though.

For the other things, Accursed Lands fits the critera. Classless and leveless, learn by doing, rp centered and low fantasy theme. It has a pretty nice combat system also, though again, the only real difference with unarmed combat is the fists are the weapons, and the skill used has a different name.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:44 PM   #8
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its kinda same as harslands and SoI..missing alot in combat.
the game also has many faults... kinda halfway done (though they aint saying that its ready)

god I'm sucha perfectionist...
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Old 12-28-2005, 01:58 AM   #9
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How about classless, unlimited levels, learn by doing for many abilities.  No stats - you are what you train.  No training limitations. No pre-canned spells - you write your own. Unarmed combat has its own styles and moves and is extremely meaningful;  armed combat highly customizable via stances, styles, moves and mob AI that keeps you on your toes;  RP highly encouraged, mandatory in kingdoms.

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We're not for everyone, of course, and we don't pretend to be. But those who do join and stay find a highly involved and involving online life.
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:21 AM   #10
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I think the only limit to what skills (or how far) you can learn them are statistical. If you have X strength, for instance, and that is only enough to get you to 10% of Skill A, and Skill A at 30% is prerequisite for Skill B, then you wont be able to learn Skill B. That is my understanding of it, anywho.
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Old 12-28-2005, 11:08 AM   #11
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you talking about which mud MattCorley?

and didnt Karinth have lessons?
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Old 12-28-2005, 02:35 PM   #12
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Think you need to define "rp centered" better if you want a good answer... there are only three RPI muds but plenty of "rp centered".

Don't know if Geas fits your description, it's been a long time since I tried it last...
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:14 PM   #13
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I've tried geas too..dont really remember why I quit..maybe it was the small player amount...maybe I check it out again..

rp centered means that roleplaying is enforced
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:23 PM   #14
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Armageddon has some coded unarmed skills such as kick, bash, disarm, shield use, and if you're mounted, charge (your mount runs into the other guy while you're mounted).

It also has unarmed skill that doesn't show up on your skills list, though certain races come with a better capacity for it than others.

The teach command only works to give the "student" a small boost in a skill they already have, if that skill is set low enough and the "teacher's" skill is high enough. Once the student's skill rises to a "less than newbie" level the "teach" command won't work for that skill, so it's really not a factor.

The classes, as mentioned in another post, exist to support the roleplay. You aren't stuck in a niche when you pick a class, a player picking "assassin" isn't pigeon-holed into playing an actual assassin. It's just a set of skills, some of which player Joe might find suits his character's background and personality better than another class might. I had a merchant character who was a family member of the "real estate" family and I decided since she's the one who rented out all the apartments, she'd have a good idea about how to get those locks open. So I picked the burglar class for her. She wasn't a burglar, I just thought that one skill might come in handy some day and be appropriate given her background. I think I used the skill a dozen times in total, primarily on a box that came with her own apartment, that I never did manage to pick open, heh.
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:58 PM   #15
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but aint it also so that certain profesion can never get a certain skill
just cause of the choise in the start
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Old 12-29-2005, 08:24 AM   #16
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That is almost true. The IMM staff decides those kinds of things. So no, a "burglar" class will never learn a magick spell through his own RP or the RP of someone else. However it's possible that if he runs into a sorcerer and they form an odd alliance (since sorcery is EVUL in Armageddon and sorcerers are usually killed as soon as they're discovered), and that alliance lasts a long time - it's *possible* that the IMM staff will consider adding a magick spell to the burglar's spell list, if the Sorcerer RPed out many long, long sessions of RP-teaching that burglar the spell.

Another short story: I had an earth-mage in Armageddon. Earth-mages don't get any weapons skills (besides "two-weapon" or "dual wield" or some such that isn't much good without an actual weapon class type skill). But a friend of hers spent a lot of time teaching her how to throw darts. She ended up being pretty good at it, so I asked the staff if she could have a -very low- level of the throwing skill. They agreed, and she got it. It wasn't going to ever get better with practice, but at least at that point, she was capable of throwing a small dagger with a decent chance of actually hitting her target.

Also, these skills classes branch out, so the skills you start with aren't the only skills you're ever capable of having. Rangers start out with a pretty wide range of skills, and through using those skills can learn around a dozen new ones. Merchants are amazing with their ability to branch new skills, mostly crafts related (which makes sense given the "function" of a merchant class skillset).

Plus, all players pick a sub-guild in addition to their primary guild, to help them round out their character. So a "warrior" class character, who wants to work for a noble house, could have a hobby of arranging flowers, -and- have that much-desired "listen" skill, just by picking the "house servant" sub-guild in addition to their usual combat-related skillset. I actually had a character with that combo and it was a hoot to play. Her background had it that her mother was a real brute of a woman, but a first-class cook, and used her kitchen rolling pin to smack her sons over the head when they misbehaved. So my character's goal was to have a granite rolling pin created that she could use as her primary weapon, AND bake cookies with
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Old 12-29-2005, 10:25 AM   #17
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yes, but its also weird that one cant change profession during life..

lets say that our friend Joe who is a burglar regrets his sins and wants to become a merchant...it doesnt work out really easily
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:27 PM   #18
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Of course he can change his profession. Skills lists are skills lists. They are -not- professions. A player who RPs his character as a merchant does NOT need to pick the "merchant" class to "be" a successful merchant. All that class is, is a set of skills that allow a character to do a bunch of craft-related skills. A character with a warrior skillset can EASILY be a successful merchant as a profession. A warrior skillset character never EVER has to touch a weapon, if they don't want to. Characters are NOT their skillsets. I don't know how better to emphasize that. I had two merchant characters who were burglars. TWO of them. And both were successful. One of them used only three skills in total: listen, the psionic contact/psi, and ride. ALL characters come with the two psionics, no matter what skillset they pick. ALL characters either come with, or can easily pick up and learn, the ride skill. Listen comes with many different skillsets. But I had to pick something so I picked burglar. I had a ranger who got rich making jewelry, and hunted primarily just for food. I had another burglar skillset character who got hired by a templar as his aide the first day I played her, and she ended up being the senior aide of a noble house. My "stories" are not rare, they're not unusual, they are typical of MANY characters in Armageddon.

To reiterate: Skillsets in Armageddon are NOT professions. You "do something for a living" based on your roleplay. Your skills exist ONLY to support your roleplay, and you NEVER have to use those skills if your character doesn't need them.
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Old 12-29-2005, 02:53 PM   #19
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but the profession limits certain skills right?
atleast it says so in the forums..
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Old 12-29-2005, 03:31 PM   #20
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If I'm not mistaken if you are a ranger, you cannot be as good as a warrior when it comes to weapons - or someting like that. So your skills are a bit limited there. But the point that Jazuela is trying to make is that skills really don't matter. Arm is a RP frist, skills second type game. I've had and known of several characters that never used their skills, only roleplayed.

I think I should let Jaz keep explaining, though. Its been a while since I've played.
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