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Old 12-08-2003, 03:05 AM   #21
Amnon
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Soljax, look at the disgruntled players thread... People here already established the fact that your word means nothing. Every bad word you write about something is taken as a praise to the game, so I think it's time for you to let the topic go.

Just buzz off, stay away from MUDs, and... well, just stay away from MUDs.

And to the next mud owner who sees this person... I share your sorrow
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Old 12-08-2003, 03:36 AM   #22
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Pay attention Amnon. Nothing is ever established on forums or reviews. Congratulations, though, if it makes you feel better.
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Old 12-08-2003, 11:27 AM   #23
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Yes, most of the playerbase at CF doesn't like when someone spews non-stop bull**** about something we have all contributed to and enjoy.  I think most people are protective of the things they care about.  And if you had any history other than your short stint as Josiah, you would know that a lot of those reviews were written by players who don't neccessarily get along with the staff.



In your review of CF, you said you'd been playing for 2 years.  You are so full of **** it's pathetic.  If I were being generous, I'd say you played for all of 6 months before you started in with your bull****.  I actually think it was more like 1-2 months.  I was going to go to  and just start throwing down all the links of your posts and let them speak for themselves, but if the people reading this want a good laugh, all they have to do is go there themselves and do a search for Josiah/Soljax.  Oh, and don't try searching in 2002, cause there's nothing there from him.  Wonder why a veteran player has no background, oh wait, that's right.  Because like everything else you say, you're full of ****.<a href="www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?5528" target="_blank">The post (dated for convenience) of Josiah's wherein he is actually honest about his knowledge of CF</a>

<a href="www.qhcf.net" target="_blank">Dioxide's CF Page</a>
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Old 12-08-2003, 07:05 PM   #24
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Well, getting back to the original post, I think that both sides acted in a slightly disagreeable manner. The player was rather impatient and rude but the immortals seemed less than helpful. But that aside, I think it brings to light another issue.

If the newbie channel is for not for mortal-to-mortal communication, why allow posts/responses to be seen by all? Wouldn't a petitioning system work just as well and eliminate the global channel?

I for one don't like global channels on a RP MUD. The above situation seems to me like proof of how they can be misinterpreted by new players and how they can contribute unnecessary ooc talk in a MUD.

Again, that's my opinion, for whatever it's worth.

Take care,

Jason
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Old 12-08-2003, 07:34 PM   #25
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In Cf you can only hear the channel up to 10th level, you can also turn it off whenever you like.

I think the reason they made it a global newbie channel is so that it has the potential to cut down on repeat questions. Two people have the same question, one asks over the channel and is answered, therefore the other can get his question answered without even having to ask.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:52 PM   #26
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Cool

It would seem that people who post responses to "reviews" of their MUD are only hurting themselves, not helping.

I don't think many people read and take the reviews seriously. Many of them seem to say the same thing. Good ones rave about the newbie friendly environment and friendly staff. Bad ones rave about cheating immortals and harsh players.

To be honest, I think that most of the people who read reviews are people who play that particular game. They read the review to see what the disgruntled player had to say, then feel the need to defend themselves. A fair option, of course, and who can blame them?

I don't own a mud. If I did, I would be hurt and irritated by the occassional player who flamed my game and my staff and would most likely do what many other muds seem to be doing now: Posting rebuttals to those reviews in the forums here.

But just sitting here, from an outside perspective, it only seems like it hurts the mud owner's game. It draws attention to a review that probably many didn't read to begin with.
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Old 01-04-2004, 03:12 PM   #27
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It really doesn't have anything to do with hurt feelings. The review, in my opinion, was factually incorrect and an inaccurate representation of a game I (and 30+ others) administrate. I posted a log of the interaction in question so that people can make a decision based on facts, not the opinion of someone who spent minutes playing.

We're big on accountability, internally and externally. If someone insists on posting a hatchet job, and the moderators of the site prefer not to involve themselves, we're going to post the facts and clear the air.
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:42 AM   #28
 
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I think that what the player did was bad, insulting the Immortal staff of a highly respected game is not the way to go. However I do feel that there is a slight problem in your mud Valg.

If I was a new player, and with your mud being SO popular, I would expect live help, where people can teach me the ropes, and answer my questions directly. I absolutely HATE seeing muds where they tell you "oh yeah just type help this help that". Although it is an easy way to pass by, it is better to explain someone thoroughly according to the subject manner. I go by what that other guy had to say, "You don't go to school just to read books, you go there because someone actually teaches you the stuff INSIDE the book". Same thing here, you don't just type help newbie and read it all, someone has to guide you as well.

As for the player, I think what he did was very rude and pathetic, slanderring a game like that, and slanderring the Immortals with only a few minutes of game-play is pathetic.

Recap: From reading the logs I saw no "rudeness" or anything from the Immortal and players of the mud. In fact I saw the inability to work with them from the player. But I do see something lacking in the players and Immortal's "way of helping". As an Immortal he should be more responsible, I mean you don't hire Immortals just to tell players read "help this and that", you hire them to help. Once again don't bog me down on this, I'm a small mud owner, you don't have to take what I say seriously at all, it's just my 2 cents worth.

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Old 01-16-2004, 12:31 PM   #29
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I think everyone is missing the point here. This all started out because of a review that was posted and someone's response to a review.

Reviews are for players to post their OPINIONS about a game. Now since it's an opinion it may or may not agree with the opinions of others. It also means that it may or may not be based on what actually happened and instead on what that person thought happened.

If your game really is that great then you should have all sorts of other reviews to counter the one bad review that was posted about your mud. If that's not the case, I can see why you're bringing this up here.

I don't care either way personally, I'm not taking sides and I'm not trying to put anyone down. It just seems like a big to do about ONE review.

Kub
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Old 01-16-2004, 02:07 PM   #30
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If I was a new player, and with your mud being SO popular, I would expect live help, where people can teach me the ropes, and answer my questions directly.  I absolutely HATE seeing muds where they tell you "oh yeah just type help this help that".  

It comes down to teaching philosophy.  I've taught at universities and a med school, and there's a big difference between time-linear investments (I teach you a new fact.) vs. time-leveraged investments (I teach you how to find facts in a general way, and let you find it.)  Basically, when I see a question on the newbie channel, my goal is to teach the person how to correctly answer their own next question.  If the second question isn't answerable (no helpfile, poor referencing, etc.), I often break off from what I'm doing and update the database on the spot so that the second question is easily self-answerable.  We've discussed this internally, and our philosophy breaks down thusly:

1) Carrion Fields is a high-challenge MUD.   I believe our playerbase skews well older than most games.  It's pretty uncommon for me to find out that a player is in high school, for example, but I don't blink twice when I find out one has children, etc.

2) Thus, we aim to teach a man (or woman) to fish, rather than giving them a fish.  If you can't handle that, the game is going to be an uphill climb.  We have a somewhat ludicrous help system, a very detailed custom area that begins your experience (a couple dozen small quests, rooms designed to teach commands, etc.), and 30+ immortals on staff to man the channels and play center field and catch what gets through.  Nowdays, the immortals spend most of their time teaching people to use the systems, because the answers are much more detailed in there anyway.

3) No system is perfect.  But highly iterative systems can simulate it.     If that can't answer your question, I want to spend my time strengthening that net of resources,  because that helps countless future visitors, and not just that one person.

4) As for hiring yet more immortals, one of the things that makes that tricky is that we only recruit immortals from established players.  They have to be 'cross-trained'- they need to know the areas and how to build, they need to be able to work with new players, they need to know the rules and how we enforce them, and they need to know how to generate apprpriate ideas to keep the game expanding.  There's a limited pool of people who can wear all of those hats, and we reject the majority of our applicants.
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Old 01-16-2004, 05:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (kubera @ Jan. 16 2004,12:31)
I think everyone is missing the point here. This all started out because of a review that was posted and someone's response to a review.

Reviews are for players to post their OPINIONS about a game. Now since it's an opinion it may or may not agree with the opinions of others. It also means that it may or may not be based on what actually happened and instead on what that person thought happened.
No, I think YOU are missing the point.

Libel is not opinion. Lying about a game in an effort to hurt it is not presenting an opinion.

People should not be allowed to take a hatchet to an innocent and then be excused because they call it "opinion."

Quote:
Originally Posted by (kubera @ Jan. 16 2004,12:31)
I don't care either way personally, I'm not taking sides
Hmmm... It sure sounds like you took a side.
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