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Old 03-23-2006, 04:54 PM   #101
nhl
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Go back a few pages, and then tell me there was no flaming. I'll quote a few lines from a post from prof1515:

Quote:
Originally Posted by
You a) don't have the English comprehension skills necessary, b) are off pretending you're running your little "business" instead of actually sitting in front of your computer wetting your pants and whining, and c) can't see the screen what with your head so far up your ass.
You're really pathetic.  How you can honestly think you're a professional is beyond reason.  Now run along back to your own little VIAGRA MUD forums, play-pretend you're a "businessman", and have someone change your diaper before you wet it again.  Wait!  Probably too late for that.
I don't know about you, but in my book that is definitely not a "reasonable attempt to educate forum readers" or a plea to TMS.

I can't speak for TMS' advertising, and without seeing some click-through figures, I can't comment on how worthwhile it would be for any other MUD to offer similar sponsorship agreements as IRE does. I can say, that for "that other service", there are MUDs willing to compensate the loss of revenue, if it is only because someone is throwing a tantrum over a simple policychange.
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Old 03-23-2006, 05:10 PM   #102
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While I do not necessarily agree with Prof's tactics, he has stated he was merely responding in kind to Matt's own immature antics. Not exactly the way I would try to get my point across but . . .
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Old 03-23-2006, 05:32 PM   #103
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I also do not agree with Prof's tactics, and he has said on numerous occaisons that he speaks for himself. You cannot lump anyone who takes a stand against the status quo into one category.
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:08 PM   #104
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I learned a long time ago that you can't convince most people of anything. They have to get screwed personally before they'll even consider your words, and by then it's usually too late. I'll try once, then wash my hands of it. That's not to say if they ask for help later, I wouldn't help them, it's just that after a while, you realize when you're talking to a wall because the wall's not listening.

As for my response to Matt, take a look a little further back in that discussion. You'll note that I made an offer to TMS that if ad money was pulled, I'd pick up the difference so as to remove any consideration of dollars from the issue (as has been speculated before as a possible reason why policy might not change). Matt's response was accusations of bribery and attempts to twist my words.

As for flames, the first flame in this entire discussion was posted in the first sentence of the the first post. And we know who posted it. I have repeatedly said he will receive in equal or greater doses to that which he dishes out. If he thinks flaming other people and MUDs on this site is fun, we'll see how he likes it.

Take care,

Jason
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:09 PM   #105
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When the_logos posted this thread, I referred to it as a "bait thread" on his other "payment method" thread.  He denied it, & lo & behold, 11 pages of worthless crapola posted by both anti & pro IRE folks have followed...

Not a bait thread, huh, the_logos...

Congrats folks, you have succeeded in taking the bait & giving the IRE muds a lot of free advertising.

prof1515, take a chill pill, you & the_logos have sparred for months on this site, & the only thing you have proved is that  you & the_logos are both full of hot air. (I had to resist using the words I'm really thinking)
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:23 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (GuruPlayer @ Mar. 23 2006,20:09)
....the only thing you have proved is that  you & the_logos are both full of hot air.
I'm not setting out to prove anything.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:35 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (GuruPlayer @ Mar. 23 2006,20:09)
Congrats folks, you have succeeded in taking the bait & giving the IRE muds a lot of free advertising.
Now see, this tactic never works. Most everyone on this forum tries to use this tactic at one point or another, especially Matt, but in reality, there's no advertising to be gotten from this forum. If anything, the controversy advertises the forum, not the game.
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:08 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (DonathinFrye @ Mar. 23 2006,12:23)
Just because the rest of the world has begun to grey the lines between commercial/free, does not mean that we cannot(at least on some level, on a resource site) expect more from our own community.
You are presenting a false dichotomy. Commercial and free are unrelated. I am watching CBS on broadcast right now, for free, and it is absolutely commercial.

--matt
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Old 03-24-2006, 10:39 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
You are presenting a false dichotomy. Commercial and free are unrelated. I am watching CBS on broadcast right now, for free, and it is absolutely commercial.

--matt

Per usual, you are trying to play word games with technicalities to avoid dealing honestly with something that should be pretty simple.

- There are MUDs that are free to play and have hidden costs.
- There are MUDs that are free to play and have no hidden costs.

The competitive gameplay of these two different models varies significantly, and it is not unrealistic to want MUD resource sites(like this one) to categorize these models for the benefit of the average user of this site. It can only be an improvement for a resource site.
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Old 03-24-2006, 05:01 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (DonathinFrye @ Mar. 24 2006,23:39)
- There are MUDs that are free to play and have hidden costs.
- There are MUDs that are free to play and have no hidden costs.
You mean:

-There are MUDs that are free to play
and
-There are MUDs that are free
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:35 PM   #111
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I think the pay for play MUD is a lot like a tissue that you're charged to blow your nose with.  Sure, you got the tissue for free.  You could make a tissue ghost, use it as a finger puppet, clean surfaces, whatever.  But if you want to blow your nose, you have to pay ten dollars.

It's limited functionality, maybe one day you just need to pick up a bug with it, but if you want to do all the really cool stuff with that tissue, namely, blowing your nose, you have to pay ten dollars.


Maybe that's not the best analogy, but it's the best I can do on a limited time frame.
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Old 03-25-2006, 11:35 PM   #112
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you know what i wish the most in IRE muds is the ability to burn down a city. sure it should be not quick, but long way to finally burn down the city anyway.

oh well, I recall Sarapis stop this thing from happening long ago. But unforunately i was not there to see it before I came to IRE mud.

If IRE want to hook me in their NEW mud if there is one, I want to see novel new skill system than rehashed system like Aetolia, Imperian, or Achaea. (Lusternia seem different but similar nevertheless.)

Of course, those thing I am interested in than other features of IRE. heh... Ignores Valaria here.
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Old 03-26-2006, 01:31 AM   #113
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I'm new to the forums, so sorry if this is a dead horse (sounds like it is). I spent a lot of time playing Achaea, and it was one of the first MUDs I got into.

I was so lost when I first started, that I did not even know about credits. When I found out about them (I thought I was going to see the Credits of who made the game. Silly me), I was a little taken back. But, I thought, it's ok, they need to make a little bit of money on this game to spend so much time on it. And then I actually looked at the Artefacts (items you can only get from purchasing "Credits" with RL money, to those who dont know)...

Oh my God. With enough money you can easily double the strength of your character, if not triple or quadruple it. And it takes a lot of money. More than most normal players can pay. But it's not impossible, meaning that some players will get a huge, planet-sized advantage.

I have witnessed very, very good PvPers lose to people who were much lower level (and IMHO much lower skill level) in fair full health vs. full health Arena fights, because the loser could not compete against the extra health, extra regen from sipping health potions, extra stats, extra strong weapon, and the slew of other performance enhancing artefacts that these "artekiddies" stack up.

And the game is mostly geared towards PvP. One could argue that it is inter-player communication, which would be a good arguement, but I would have to go with PvP, since all class's skillsets only have about 3 or 4 skills max that can be used in PvE, if not just one or two (this is out of 50 to 100-something skills for each class). That, and the fact that grinding (bashing in that game, it's called) is totally mindnumbing, involving just pushing one button over and over, no matter what class you are (F1, F1, F1, F2, F1, F1, etc etc etc etc). The game is weighted towards PvP, and the PvP can so easily be imbalanced and overturned with a gob of credits, which take no skill to obtain.

And that does not even consider the fact that, as far as I have seen it, there is no way to trans (max out) even one of your three skillsets without eaither, a. buying credits and doing it in a week (for several hundred dollars or more), or b. waiting RL months and months to do it by getting city or House credits (which your turn to buy only comes up once in a blue moon), and questing to buy the extremely expensive credits on the credit market (which is all fueled by people buying credits with RL money, and then selling it in-game, thus buying gold with RL money, and deflating the value of earning gold). One of the only strategies to trans your skills, is to save up enough credits to trans Survival, which will let you fish for gold to buy credits. This is a very boring, and a veeeeery long process, since the best fishers can only get about 1 to 3, maybe 4, credits a day fishing, and it takes hundreds and hundreds of credits to trans all 3 class skillsets. And that's not even mentioning how long it takes to save up the credits to trans Survival, which you can't even fish for. So, weigh the options: Months and months, possibly years, to trans your class skills, or one week spending money. If you enjoy the game, and want to be the best you can be in it, does that not seem a little unfair?
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Old 09-15-2006, 04:56 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Dacypher @ Mar. 26 2006,01:31)
I'm new to the forums, so sorry if this is a dead horse (sounds like it is). I spent a lot of time playing Achaea, and it was one of the first MUDs I got into.

[...]

Artefacts (items you can only get from purchasing "Credits" with RL money, to those who dont know)...
Better late than never -

"Credits" can also be purchased with ingame gold. It may take a little longer, but it's possible, and many of the best and strongest players never spent a farthing.
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Old 09-16-2006, 01:06 AM   #115
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Well, I had to read through quite a lot to end up making this post. I've never really understood the arguement; either you like playing IRE muds enough to buy credits and it doesn't bother you, or you think it's a ripoff and there is false advertising. You can't really play the game for long without realizing that credits will help you advance much more quickly. Not to mention that there is a credits tab on the main page of each and every website.
So you either want to buy them or you don't. If you start the game, and you like it or hate it, very quickly you'll decide if you want to buy credits or not. If not, there's a lot of totally free muds out there--go grab one.
I played achaea for about an RL year before every buying a credit--in that time, I advanced very far in my house and in my influence. True, I wasn't very good at PVP until I spend some RL money on credits, but by that time I knew what i was doing and the game gave me enough enjoyment that I thought it was worth it.
Obviously, I like IRE and I'm going to come across as biased no matter what, so I'll just say this: There are a lot of really fantastic muds out there. You don't have to play IRE and it's nearly impossible to put too much time into it without finding out about credits. So mudders are usually pretty smart people--figure it out. Either you want to make the investment or you don't. It's a personal decision, an individual choice. It's just not the big deal it's made out to be on these forums.
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:43 AM   #116
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Oh no, not this thread again.
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:51 AM   #117
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I've gotta tell you, I'm sick of people bitching about IRE games. If you don't like the payment model, suck it up.

I played Aetolia for two years, and never bought a single credit.

I've played Lusternia for two years, and have bought enough credits that Matt and Estarra are probably working from their own private desert island now.

You know what? I got enjoyment out of it both ways. Equal amounts, different ways. Now quit whining.
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Old 09-26-2006, 08:03 AM   #118
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Well there's a lovely bit of flame bait to get the ball going again.
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Old 09-26-2006, 09:28 AM   #119
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For the love of all that is good and decent, let this thread die and fade away...
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Old 09-26-2006, 05:57 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Ilkidarios @ Sep. 16 2006,03:43)
Oh no, not this thread again.
Um, that is the whole point. Hopefully this thread will continue in just this one place which people who are tired of it can ignore. Probably optimistic but worth a try.
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