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Old 03-27-2006, 07:57 PM   #21
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Matt,

I was both on-topic in responding to your post mentioning my off-topicness, and I also listed information pertinent to Nass' topic involving 5 different Top 20 MUDs and their financial model status.

<off-topic insults removed by moderator>
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:24 PM   #22
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Barring any slightly judgemental comments that involve the active moderator of this thread, I will again state what has been removed three times.

Don't use a thread meant to post information about top-voted completely free-to-play MUDs as a place to continue your jabs against other MUDs, Matt. Namely, your attempts to suggest that Aardwolf is breaking DIKU License code that it certainly is not.

I am not angry at your censorship, nor will I become angry. I am unrelenting, though - Aardwolf and IRE games are both pay-for-perk systems, and both are legally allowed to do so. Neither fall into the same category as Midievia, though Aardwolf is, most often, more popular than Achaea.

So you know.
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (DonathinFrye @ Mar. 27 2006,23:24)
Don't use a thread meant to post information about top-voted completely free-to-play MUDs as a place to continue your jabs against other MUDs, Matt. Namely, your attempts to suggest that Aardwolf is breaking DIKU License code that it certainly is not.
Since you continue to try to take this off-topic by making the focus of the thread me and what I do, I'll reply in the hopes that you will try to stay on topic.

In no way did I suggest that Aardwolf is breaking the DIKU license. I don't believe that charging money for in-game things inherently breaks the DIKU license since in the absence of financial statements there is no way to determine whether they are turning a profit (which is what the Diku license mentions). The original poster asked whether Aardwolf sells digital assets. It does, and I pointed that out. It is also a DIKU, and as someone pointed out that DIKUs don't typically sell digital assets due to perceived license restrictions, I pointed out that Aardwolf is both a DIKU and sells digital assets.

How you derive a flame from a completely unjudgemental statement of fact (they are DIKU, they charge for in-game items) is beyond me.

--matt
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Old 03-28-2006, 12:04 AM   #24
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I'm pretty sure SoI has no pay for perks system in use, but it's not in the top 10. I think it used to be, at one point, but I can't remember very well.
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:44 AM   #25
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Carrion Fields is consistantly in the top five, and is absolutely
100% free to play.
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:47 AM   #26
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the-logos @Mar. 27 2006,23:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by
In no way did I suggest that Aardwolf is breaking the DIKU license. I don't believe that charging money for in-game things inherently breaks the DIKU license since in the absence of financial statements there is no way to determine whether they are turning a profit (which is what the Diku license mentions). The original poster asked whether Aardwolf sells digital assets. It does, and I pointed that out. It is also a DIKU, and as someone pointed out that DIKUs don't typically sell digital assets due to perceived license restrictions, I pointed out that Aardwolf is both a DIKU and sells digital assets.
I think you are pretty alone in taking this viewpoint about the DIKU licence (that is apart from Medievia and other licence breakers, of course). And IF Aardwolf were a DIKU derivate and were also selling in-game advantages for money, as you imply, that would indeed make them license breakers too. As well as any other DIKU mud doing the same thing. But since I have never heard that particular accusation aimed at Aardwolf by anybody else than you, I have to assume that your allegations are incorrect, unless you can provide any proof to the opposite.

But since obviously no other opinion than your own is allowed after you got the moderating powers, that will make any attempts of discussing it futile, since you apparently will just delete the posts that don't suit you, as you no doubt will delete this one.

Let me say this: Censorship of that kind is a worst possible method of derailing a discussion. If that is the way the discussions will be run from now on, I for one have had it.
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:56 AM   #27
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Thanks folks, very helpful. I didn't realise there were so many pay4perks nowadays, and... nice to see that us freebie guys are still up there.

As an aside remark, seriously guys, this chest strutting and snide remarking that seems to pervade every thread really doesn't help anyone.
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Old 03-28-2006, 05:33 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Anitra @ Mar. 28 2006,04:47)
the-logos @Mar. 27 2006,23:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by
In no way did I suggest that Aardwolf is breaking the DIKU license. I don't believe that charging money for in-game things inherently breaks the DIKU license since in the absence of financial statements there is no way to determine whether they are turning a profit (which is what the Diku license mentions). The original poster asked whether Aardwolf sells digital assets. It does, and I pointed that out. It is also a DIKU, and as someone pointed out that DIKUs don't typically sell digital assets due to perceived license restrictions, I pointed out that Aardwolf is both a DIKU and sells digital assets.
I think you are pretty alone in taking this viewpoint about the DIKU licence (that is apart from Medievia and other licence breakers, of course). And IF Aardwolf were a DIKU derivate and were also selling in-game advantages for money, as you imply, that would indeed make them license breakers too. As well as any other DIKU mud doing the same thing. But since I have never heard that particular accusation aimed at Aardwolf by anybody else than you, I have to assume that your allegations are incorrect, unless you can provide any proof to the opposite.

But since obviously no other opinion than your own is allowed after you got the moderating powers, that will make any attempts of discussing it futile, since you apparently will just delete the posts that don't suit you, as you no doubt will delete this one.

Let me say this: Censorship of that kind is a worst possible method of derailing a discussion. If that is the way the discussions will be run from now on, I for one have had it.
Aardwolf:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anyway, back to the matter at hand, if you want to flame us for accepting donations and giving small in-game rewards that can be gotten normally anyway go right ahead, just hurry up and do it within the next week because after the 31st  we won't be accepting them again until the July/August timeframe.
Now stop derailing.
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Old 03-28-2006, 06:28 AM   #29
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Now, that's ironic.
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Old 03-28-2006, 12:45 PM   #30
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Antira wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
And IF Aardwolf were a DIKU derivate
Why don't you just log in? Aardwolfmud.org. I realize it's more fun to try to derail a conversation by attacking me, but come on: Basic fact checking is not beyond you. And of course, as Hadoryu pointed out, Aardwolf already posted that they sell stuff, in this very thread.

Back on topic please.
--matt
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:36 PM   #31
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Can you guys just start a new topic on this?  I mean, call it "Aardwolf" or something, it's just sort of ruining this one.

And I don't normally agree with Matt, I think it's time we got back on topic. I probably shouldn't have said that, though, because now I've just opened myself to some flames.
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Why don't you just log in? Aardwolfmud.org. I realize it's more fun to try to derail a conversation by attacking me, but come on: Basic fact checking is not beyond you. And of course, as Hadoryu pointed out, Aardwolf already posted that they sell stuff, in this very thread.
<unprovoked attack on Aardwolf moderated out for off-topicness>
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:20 PM   #33
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This is totally offtopic to this post, but nonetheless.

To my understanding, the DIKU license has never been held up in a court. I am no expert on US contractual laws, but I do know that in many other parts of the world (including many EU countries), the license as such would not hold up in a case versus a MUD operator who charges for the game.

One of the stepping stones is the very first clause of the rules section which states that "[the MUD operator] may under no circumstance make profit on any part of DikuMUD in any possible way", at which point the MUD operator has an easy claim that it is not the DikuMUD that is being paid for, but the content running on it. Furthermore, the Diku authors weaken their own license by giving explicit examples ("you may not charge $5 for sending a copy of DikuMUD") which indicates that the license has been written to cover only the DikuMUD engine, not the content running on it.

There are other pitfalls in the Diku license too, but the bottom line is that just because it's a fancy document, does not mean that it is legally binding (most EULA's for example, are not legally binding in many EU nations). Whether it is ethical to disobey the license, is an entirely other matter.
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:23 PM   #34
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Our lawyers have looked at the license and say that there is absolutely no way it would hold up in court.  They also said that it would most likely be thrown out as frivilous and/or we could counter-sue for damages done to us.
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:36 PM   #35
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Whether it is binding or not really isn't the point, especially to the 500+ muds who follow the license regardless. There is such a thing as the spirit of the law...

Which brings me to, where is the moderator now? The last two pages of this thread are off topic but it seems alright as long as Matt isn't the one being attacked...
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:39 PM   #36
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I'm going to close this thread. Certain posters insist on attacking other people or MUDs in it, and that has nothing to do with the thread subject. The original question by the thread starter has been answered. Attacks on Aardwolf just derail the thread.

(Sorry Splork, but I do have other things to do. I can't check here for posts every 2 minutes.)
--matt
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