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Old 05-05-2006, 01:07 AM   #1
the_logos
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Quite an amusing read from Bartle in the Escapist on a failed sex-oriented text MUD he worked on:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/43/3

--matt
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Old 05-05-2006, 01:23 AM   #2
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Damn, a lot of that code sounds fairly good actually. I wouldn't mind having that in the mud I play.
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Old 05-05-2006, 04:37 AM   #3
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Interesting stuff - I touched on the same subject about a year ago on MudLab, as well. I've implemented code support for sex in the past, but only as a sideline activity - even then, it caused some interesting social changes to the mud. I can only imagine what would happen if it was a fully viable means of advancement.

Note to self: I think I might have to steal Bartle's "permissions system" idea.
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Old 05-05-2006, 11:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 05 2006,05:37)
Note to self: I think I might have to steal Bartle's "permissions system" idea.
I THINK (I may well be wrong though as it's been years) that Skotos' Castle Marrach has/had a similar permissions system governing interaction between avatars.

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Old 05-05-2006, 02:35 PM   #5
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I'd love to learn more about exactly how his sytem worked that he described here:

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For instance, take room descriptions. They would change on-the-fly if you were unable to see or hear or whatever; commands which required the use of fingers (such as playing the piano) wouldn't work if your fingers were restricted (such as they would be if you were wearing mittens). This worked across all sensory modalities and all components of the body (and yes, male and female bodies did have some different components). It remains cutting-edge stuff for textual worlds, but of course only designers are likely to care much about it; as a player, you just want to play. The reason I mention it is that although it's something that would enhance all MUDs, it was developed specifically in response to a sex game requirement: bondage. If you're blindfolded and have a horse bit in your mouth, you can still make out some of the environment ("hmm, that feels like the heat from a branding iron") but you can't always perform everyday commands ("I'd shout for help if it weren't for this horse bit in my mouth").
That sounds like it would be exceptionally valuable in any MUD.
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Old 05-05-2006, 03:10 PM   #6
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It would be easy enough to implement hidden tags in a description system that then allowed placement within them of sense-specific information.

Example: <SM>="Smell" <CB>="Color Blindness"

The room is made of <CB>white</CB> stone with small <CB>red</CB> flecks in its grain. A <CB>green</CB> rug<SM>, smelling of old cheese,</SM> lies in the corner.

Each of the sense flags would have to be created with appropriate code to support them.

Bo Zimmerman's CoffeeMud already supports sense-seperation (Sight, sound and smell are supported. Taste and tactile could be with a little coding) in environmental messaging and allows for multiple title/descriptions using a <P> tag in large-grid area types. Guy is a genius. In that codebase it would be easy enough to transfer what he already has to other sensory information and allow changing of character-specific gathered text info.

I also would love to know how Bartle handled this. Any chance someone could email him and ask him to post about it?

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Old 05-05-2006, 05:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Mabus @ May 05 2006,22:10)
It would be easy enough to implement hidden tags in a description system that then allowed placement within them of sense-specific information.
Yeah, that's the same approach I used for the dynamic descriptions snippet I released back in 1999.

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Bo Zimmerman's CoffeeMud already supports sense-seperation (Sight, sound and smell are supported. Taste and tactile could be with a little coding) in environmental messaging
I use the same sort of thing, and actually combine it with the dynamic description tags (which are basically used everywhere), so that the code ends up looking like:

apCreature->PutSense( IThing::eSIGHT, "{name} gives {his/her} {weapon} a hard tug as it coils around {opponent}'s {opponent.legs}.\n\r" );

It's a pretty effective approach IMO - much less hassle than putting together strings each time, and much more readable than the $N/$n/$S/etc tags used by Diku.
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Old 05-05-2006, 05:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 05 2006,15:37)
Note to self: I think I might have to steal Bartle's "permissions system" idea.
Actually what value would that have? If someone wants to shake my hand, I'll shake it back, or I won't. I don't need any permission system. If they want to hug me, they can do so, but then I'll either react with revulsion or hug them back. What uses could the permission system actually have?

At most I'd have an "allow" system. Someone goes to do something, I "allow" them.
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Old 05-05-2006, 06:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (John @ May 06 2006,00:44)
If they want to hug me, they can do so, but then I'll either react with revulsion or hug them back. What uses could the permission system actually have?
It would allow me to specify whether or not I wanted to try and dodge your hug. If I thought you were going to crush my ribcage, for example, then I wouldn't want to just stand there. But equally, I wouldn't necessarily want to dodge a hug from a friend.

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At most I'd have an "allow" system. Someone goes to do something, I "allow" them.
Far too slow - it would render the offensive hug useless, as I could just walk away as soon as I saw you trying to hug me.

I could see the acceptance working for something like a handshake (you offer them your hand, which they can then choose to accept), as it requires an active response from the target. But something like a hug, kiss, or a pat on the back should automatically succeed unless the target responds defensively. And in those cases you really need to define your desired response in advance.
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Old 05-06-2006, 10:30 AM   #10
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I'll toot my own horn and say I've got an article in there as well about the evolution of the Armageddon policy on cybersex.   http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/43/24
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Old 05-06-2006, 04:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Sanvean @ May 06 2006,11:30)
I'll toot my own horn and say I've got an article in there as well about the evolution of the Armageddon policy on cybersex.   http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/43/24
Very much enjoyed Sanvean's article and recommend it.
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