Top Mud Sites Forum Return to TopMudSites.com
Go Back   Top Mud Sites Forum > MUD Players and General Discussion > Tavern of the Blue Hand
Click here to Register

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-01-2006, 03:33 PM   #1
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Awhile ago (a year? 2 years? I don't remember), Materia Magica was kicked off TMS for rampant cheating. They, of course, claimed innocence. Another TMS user kindly sent me this link, which purports to be from the guy that helped MM cheat and lays out how he did it, including the script he used.

http://www.pkzone.org/index.php?nid=176

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2006, 06:10 PM   #2
Protoss
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18
Protoss is on a distinguished road
And? So what?

Your thoughts seem unfinished. What's the point of posting this?

On the other hand, wasn't there good old Merentha who cheated as well using scripts? They had like only 5-10 users logged on to their MUD yet ended up being in the top 3 on the List quite frequently before they got the boot.
Protoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2006, 06:14 PM   #3
prof1515
Senior Member
 
prof1515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 791
prof1515 will become famous soon enoughprof1515 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to prof1515 Send a message via Yahoo to prof1515
Once a cheater, always a cheater. Medthievia proved that this year. A ban from TMS should be a permanent one. If a MUD is so pathetic they can't play by the rules, they deserve to be cast off like the worthless crap they probably are.

Take care,

Jason
prof1515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2006, 10:37 PM   #4
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Protoss @ Feb. 01 2006,18:10)
And? So what?

Your thoughts seem unfinished. What's the point of posting this?
I thought it might be interesting for people to know how they did it. There's no point other than that. I thought it was interesting, at least. I sent it on to Adam too so that he has a better idea of what to watch for in the future.

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2006, 10:39 PM   #5
Milawe
Senior Member
 
Milawe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Home MUD: Stash
Home MUD: Archons of Avenshar
Posts: 653
Milawe has a spectacular aura aboutMilawe has a spectacular aura about
Wow. Really interesting post.

Thanks for the link!
Milawe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2006, 09:07 PM   #6
Protoss
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18
Protoss is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Feb. 01 2006,22:37)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Protoss @ Feb. 01 2006,18:10)
And? So what?

Your thoughts seem unfinished. What's the point of posting this?
I thought it might be interesting for people to know how they did it. There's no point other than that. I thought it was interesting, at least. I sent it on to Adam too so that he has a better idea of what to watch for in the future.

--matt
Ah ok. Just the way you presented made it seem like you stopped writing mid-sentence without finishing your statement.
Protoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2006, 11:27 PM   #7
Solus
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Solus is on a distinguished road
The words of a player who was banned from the game are not the most trustable words. For all I know, he was just throwing a tempertauntrum because he was banned. *shrugs*
Solus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 12:44 AM   #8
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Solus @ Feb. 02 2006,23:27)
The words of a player who was banned from the game are not the most trustable words. For all I know, he was just throwing a tempertauntrum because he was banned. *shrugs*
Yes, that could be the case, but then, we know MM was cheating outrageously, and the guy did provide the source code he used to allegedly do it.

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 08:05 AM   #9
ixlone
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2
ixlone is on a distinguished road
The quality of a IEN like materia magica has nothing to do with whether or not votes were padded. The fact is MM is a much better IEN than most of the crap out there, ive tried many muds, and logged off in a few mins after laughing at how crap they are. Hell even MM home page is a piece of art work, its much better done than any other site.

So have fun playing what ever you do play, but if you want to play a better game feel free to log on to MM.

Ixlone.
ixlone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 08:22 AM   #10
KaVir
Legend
 
KaVir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
KaVir will become famous soon enoughKaVir will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (ixlone @ Feb. 03 2006,14:05)
The fact is MM is a much better IEN than most of the crap out there, ive tried many muds, and logged off in a few mins after laughing at how crap they are.
I know it's supposedly "rewritten from scratch", but it still looks and feels pretty much like any other ROM mud to me.

Nothing wrong with that of course - ROM is a popular codebase. It's just a bit stale for my tastes. If you look around you'll find a lot more originality in some of the newer muds.
KaVir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 08:56 AM   #11
Shadowmaster
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 12
Shadowmaster is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Shadowmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Solus @ Feb. 02 2006,23:27)
The words of a player who was banned from the game are not the most trustable words. For all I know, he was just throwing a tempertauntrum because he was banned. *shrugs*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The words of a player who was banned from the game are not the most trustable words. For all I know, he was just throwing a tempertauntrum because he was banned. *shrugs*

Reading the thread Matt posted, it is obvious you are either a) an immortal at Materia Magica, or b) a disciple of the staff there. Its pretty easy to see you disagreed with the original (Lothos?) on every post he made on his forums criticizing the head IMP? Therefore I'd say your own post can be summed up as "hes not happy with the mud, he can't possibly have a valid complaint".

:shrug:
Shadowmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 09:10 AM   #12
Tyben
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1
Tyben is on a distinguished road
As a longtime player of Materia Magica (or Moongate as it was formely known) who has moved on to World of Warcraft, I have yet to log into the former for longer than 15 mins in the past year.

However, I do remember a time when I adventured with previously mentioned Lothos. He was always an overbearingly proud jackanape, convinced of his own superiority and determined to bend the rules to his own devices. Not only did he on numerous occasions invent "proof" for outrageous claims that later turned out to be false, but he also always had a kind of childish love-hate relationship with the game's administration. Just as with his interactions with others within the game, while he was being appeased and everything was going well, he would remain courteous, but as soon as something went wrong he would throw and tantrum, turning on anyone with his capricious nature and try to harm them through any means available (fabricating damaging stories, "haxorz", PK, griefing, etc).  Personally, while I can't be brought to care much in regards to if MM/MG was cheating, I would have to caution taking anything Lothos says with a grain of salt, especially if he truly was banned like someone else posted.

I remember certain members of my own clan, despite my warnings, tought him how to do multiple bosses. During one, as he rashly caused himself to lose (trash) equipment, he turned on them for childish reasons. Afterwards he proceeded to act in a juvenile and asinine manner to anyone related to them. (No change for me, I'd killed him repeatedly before and even managed to grab a portion of his equipment when one of his former clans let him die to a certain dangerous boss.  Now that I think about it, he also turned on that other former clan in a similar fashion.)
Tyben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 11:12 AM   #13
Valg
Moderator
 
Valg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Carrion Fields
Posts: 643
Valg will become famous soon enough
No wonder O.J. got off.

We know MM was cheating based on the voting patterns, as cited. It was obvious at the time to anyone watching the voting boards, but it just took a while to prove. Here's a guy saying "Here's how.", and providing full documentation which fully explains the patterns provided. And still people will focus on attacking the messenger.

What part do people feel is untrue? What evidence do you have for your opinion?
Valg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 11:31 AM   #14
Solus
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Solus is on a distinguished road
I am not part of Materia Magica's staff; though, I do play the game and enjoy it.
I just know better than to completely trust someone who's recently been punished. Its common knowledge that people lie and act spitefully when they get in trouble.
Its not uncommon for someone to claim an authority abused their powers in game or IRL, despite having done wrong.

Also, thats a pretty bad summary. Like Tyben, I'm just taking what Lothos says with a grain of salt.
But most likely, Vassago has no intention to argue with Lothos. As such, the argument would be pretty one sided. Therefore, I am just posting logical counterpoints to what is being said.
--
As is, people were spamming the message boards of Materia Magica chanting 'vote, vote, vote.' Because of the ammount of spam, I doubted Materia Magica was well ranked solely because of cheating.

But even if Materia Magica did cheat, it doesn't mean Vassago had knowledge of it. A player wanting to boost his favorite game's rating can rig the votes without telling the games owner he is cheating.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by
What part do people feel is untrue? What evidence do you have for your opinion?
As is said, people who know Lothos, like Tyben, know Lothos's personality. He doesn't have the best history.
Solus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 11:31 AM   #15
Shadowmaster
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 12
Shadowmaster is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Shadowmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Valg @ Feb. 03 2006,11:12)
No wonder O.J. got off.

We know MM was cheating based on the voting patterns, as cited.  It was obvious at the time to anyone watching the voting boards, but it just took a while to prove.  Here's a guy saying "Here's how.", and providing full documentation which fully explains the patterns provided.  And still people will focus on attacking the messenger.

What part do people feel is untrue?  What evidence do you have for your opinion?
Heh, no kidding. How much more evidence to people need?
Shadowmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 11:33 AM   #16
an anonymous coward
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4
an anonymous coward is on a distinguished road
I know Lothos to be a lot of things. A liar is not one of them.
an anonymous coward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 11:49 AM   #17
Angie
Member
 
Angie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prague
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 134
Angie is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Solus @ Feb. 03 2006,18:31)
I just know better than to completely trust someone who's recently been punished. Its common knowledge that people lie and act spitefully when they get in trouble.
Its not uncommon for someone to claim an authority abused their powers in game or IRL, despite having done wrong.
I believe most people on these boards have enough administrator experience to tell a disgruntled player. We have all dealt with them and can form our own opinion. Thanks for your concern.
Angie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 12:26 PM   #18
somied
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28
somied is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nothing wrong with that of course - ROM is a popular codebase. It's just a bit stale for my tastes. If you look around you'll find a lot more originality in some of the newer muds.
"Moongate" (as Materia Magica was first known) began as modified ROM, complete with stock areas and all. Eventually version 4.0 was expected, and was supposed to be a complete rewrite from scratch, however, it wasn't. Vassago merely covered up the much more recognizable stock traits. But even to this day, 10+ years later, you can still find bits and pieces of stock ROM in the game - and all this without crediting the original MERC/DIKU/ROM authors in any way, shape, or form.

As it pertains to voting: I know first-hand that at least 6 of the games listed most often in the top 10 cheat in one form or another. It's not blatant cheating like Materia Magica, it's more "bending of the rules", however, I'm of the opinion that cheating is cheating is cheating is cheating (and I know I'm not alone). You can find your own evidence littered all over these forums in countless threads and posts. Hell, there has even been rule modifications in order to justify some of this cheating over the course of this site's history.

So I, for one, tend to be a little more than jaded when someone like the_logos (known quite well for advertising IRE in almost every post with or without relevance) jumps at the chance to discredit another MUD so blatantly and publically, regardless of the reasoning.
somied is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 01:18 PM   #19
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by

As it pertains to voting: I know first-hand that at least 6 of the games listed most often in the top 10 cheat in one form or another. It's not blatant cheating like Materia Magica, it's more "bending of the rules", however, I'm of the opinion that cheating is cheating is cheating is cheating (and I know I'm not alone).
Why not tell Synozeer then, and let him kick the offending MUDs off? Adam is happy to kick off MUDs that cheat. He's kicked off multiple cheating MUDs, from Materia Magica to Merentha to Medievia. On the other hand, if Adam doesn't think a certain practice is cheating, it's not. He is the sole materially relevant judge on what is and isn't cheating, and he clearly felt MM was cheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by

So I, for one, tend to be a little more than jaded when someone like the_logos (known quite well for advertising IRE in almost every post with or without relevance) jumps at the chance to discredit another MUD so blatantly and publically, regardless of the reasoning.
I don't need to discredit Materia Magica. They got caught cheating. Synozeer kicked them off. That is what happened, and there's no embellishing of anything going on. *shrug*

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2006, 01:56 PM   #20
Valg
Moderator
 
Valg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Carrion Fields
Posts: 643
Valg will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (somied @ Feb. 03 2006,12:26)
As it pertains to voting:  I know first-hand that at least 6 of the games listed most often in the top 10 cheat in one form or another.  It's not blatant cheating like Materia Magica, it's more "bending of the rules", however, I'm of the opinion that cheating is cheating is cheating is cheating (and I know I'm not alone).  You can find your own evidence littered all over these forums in countless threads and posts.  Hell, there has even been rule modifications in order to justify some of this cheating over the course of this site's history.
Please present your evidence, then. If you can prove those allegations, I'll help you organize the research and pass it on to Synozeer.

If, however, by "rule modifications in order to justify some of this cheating", you mean that games are doing things that are OK by TMS's rules but not OK by the set of rules you would use to judge them, then it isn't "cheating". But if someone is breaking TMS's rules, please share the knowledge and let's keep the voting fair.
Valg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Materia Magica's cheating ways - Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Materia Magica 2003 Website Contest Results Vassago Advertising for Players 0 11-23-2003 09:07 PM
Materia Magica releases new website design! Kreative Advertising for Players 7 09-23-2003 02:39 PM
Materia Magica Lilith383 Advertising for Players 16 06-24-2003 07:24 PM
ooc cheating OnyxFlame Roleplaying and Storytelling 22 05-20-2003 08:10 PM
Kallisti: A Parting of the Ways AxL MUD Announcements 0 05-01-2002 11:42 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Style based on a design by Essilor
Copyright Top Mud Sites.com 2014