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Old 01-25-2006, 11:31 AM   #1
KaVir
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This is a response to Naren's post, "Looking for the right MUD"



You might find God Wars II of interest: godwars2.com 3000 (www.godwars2.com).

To respond to your requirements:

1) There are no guilds, nor is there any reliance on other players for any form of advancement.

2) It's completely free to play (as in, even if you wanted to pay for something, you couldn't).

3) It draws inspiration from both Diablo2 and D&D 3rd edition in terms of character customisation. The former in regard to class powers, the latter for feats (called 'talents' in God Wars II).

4) No 'cows' or 'snails' to fight - even starting character's are assumed to be individuals of significant power, and are more than capable of ripping apart weaker monsters such as goblins and skeletons. Each mob fights differently however, using its own tactics and fighting techniques, so even a 'weak' mob may beat you if you never vary your tactics (for example, don't try killing a swarm of rats with a sword - a lit torch is far more effective).

The amount of customisation can be rather overwhelming when it comes to building your character, and most people end up creating a bad build to start with (most people don't want to read the help files for all 111 talents). Fortunately a lesson I learned from Diablo2 was that broken builds are easy to make if you're not sure what you're doing, and can ruin your character - thus there is a selection of predesigned starting builds, and it's also possible to rearrange any and every part of your character whenever you wish.

The only exception is your class (which usually takes a few hours to earn), but there are numerous possible builds within each - for example a vampire might focus on summoning pets to aid in combat, or they might transform into wolf form and use their Lupine Fortitude and Claws of the Wolf, or they might utilise a speed-oriented setup that fights as a swarm of bats, or design a vampiric sorcerer focusing on shadow magic, or combat build based around shadow-crafted armour and Blade of Darkness, etc.

There are also some other factors which you might not like, so I'll warn you in advance:

1) The mud uses true coordinates, not rooms, which can take a while to get used to. Many people hate it at first, but IMO the flexibility pays off in the long run - there's a certain amount of satisfaction to be gained from filling your opponent with arrows from several hundred feet away, while he desperately tries to hide behind his shield.

2) The combat system is complex - almost six and a half thousand fighting techniques, split among dozens of weapons, skills, talents and fighting styles - and based heavily on player skill rather than character skill (you need to manually control four separate body locations during combat). If you suck at combat, so will your character, and many players lack the patience to learn something new.

3) There is no roleplaying. The game world is designed to be consistent within its theme, and goes to great lengths to provide attention to detail (such as your boots and trousers getting wet when you wade through a pond, torches being extinguished if you get knocked over into water, weapons becoming notched and bloodstained, etc). However it is still a game first and foremost, and I don't try to pretend otherwise.

4) The mud is in open beta, and is still far from finished. Oh, you can wander around and complete various challenges, explore dungeons and loot treasure, join a class and develop your powers - but the game itself is far from complete, despite having been in development almost four years. Still, don't think progress is stagnant - new changes come in every week: http://www.godwars2.com/progress.php

5) Once you class, there are no restrictions on PK. If you don't like PK then you won't like God Wars II (although you should be pretty familiar with the game by the time you reach this point).

The mud won't appeal to everyone, but it does cover your requirements, so you might find it worth giving a try. If so, be sure to check 'help newbie' when you connect (you can also use 'help tutorial' for an introduction to the combat system). You don't lose anything for dying (until you class) and can later change any part of your setup you don't like, so don't worry about messing something up.

God Wars II: godwars2.com 3000
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:25 PM   #2
Naren
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Wow, thanks for the quick reply, and the redirect to the correct forum!

Godwars II sounds great, I'll give it a few hours play tonight!

Still, that doesn't mean I'm satisfied. Keep giving me suggestions!

My needs
1) Characters that I can customise right from the start, and continue to make choices as I advance. I don't want cookie-cutter fighters and wizards. Think DiabloII, DnD3
2) 10 levels of lamb killing? No thanks! I want to take on real monsters, goblins, skeles right from the start.
3) No pay for perks. Heck, i'd even prefer a monthy fee!
4) I prefer to roleplay. But the game does come first...
5) A new one. No 'rent'. Real life means that sometimes I have to just quit. I don't wanna lose all my equipment if I can't find a bar.

Thanks again,
Naren
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Old 01-25-2006, 01:54 PM   #3
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Now I'm not trying to start an argument here...

You mention you want customizable chars like Diablo ][ and DnD3, but aren't those just tree systems, preset at certain levels? You still end up with a cookie cutter char like everyone else that follows the same branches.

That to me sounds like limiting your char. Maybe you like the challenge of being limited? In either char advancement case, skills/spells are aquired per level basis. So why not go with a MUD that offers a wide range, some would say a multitude, of skills and spells customized for each class and race? It is then up to you, the player, to determine what skill, spell or combo is best suited for each battle. You don't HAVE to use all your abilities, but you can.

Especially when you are looking for a FREE game. How much time and effort do you think these people that run free games have to put into a customizeable char? Some yes, but not anything you should rightfully compare to a game you PAY for. Or even if the char creation/path does suit you, expect the game to lack in some other aspect, (can't please all of them all the time deal)

I'm in charg of Balance on Medieval Times MUD. Instead of choosing to limit character's abiilities, we have opened them up in favor of adding more diversity and applicable skills/spells. For example, we added an entire elemental damage/resist system. Instead of forcing magic users, or mercenaries to focus on one element as their main path, we introduced many abilities for each class to deal with each type in their own way, either through items, skills, abilities etc.

systems like D2 etc all pose a serious problem of imbalance. It's extermely difficuly to keep diff tech trees in balance when PvP. I never played D2 PvP for this reason, and everyone I knew that did, got disgusted at one certain tech'd Class. By keeping the class /race playing field equal in ability, it boils down to how good YOU are. The choices you make in combat to attack or counter attack determine who is the wiser. And from that, the player learns how to be better prepared for next time.

Maybe I'm just not hearing what yer asking for in that first requirement properly. shrug.

Tank
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:14 PM   #4
KaVir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (SirTank @ Jan. 25 2006,20:54)
You mention you want customizable chars like Diablo ][ and DnD3, but aren't those just tree systems, preset at certain levels? You still end up with a cookie cutter char like everyone else that follows the same branches.
If someone follows the exact same branches as you then yes, they'll end up the same - but with the D&D feats or the Diablo2 skills there are still going to be literally millions of possible setups, at least several of which will be completely different; a diablo2 Amazon who focuses on spears will play differently to one who focuses on bows, just as a Sorceress who focuses on fire magic will play differently to one who specialises in ice magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
In either char advancement case, skills/spells are aquired per level basis. So why not go with a MUD that offers a wide range, some would say a multitude, of skills and spells customized for each class and race? It is then up to you, the player, to determine what skill, spell or combo is best suited for each battle. You don't HAVE to use all your abilities, but you can.
If everyone has all of the abilities, then that results in cookie-cutter characters.  Fireball might be better against mob X, icebolt against mob Y and earthquake against mob Z, but if every mage has all of those spells then there's no variety - all mages are basically the same.  If you've four classes and they're all designed that way then in effect there are only four possible character builds.

Tell someone in God Wars II that you're a "mage", however, and that really doesn't narrow it down much.  Do you specialise in a particular type of elemental magic (or perhaps focus on mind magic)?  Do you use one of the four elemental forms, or maybe rely instead on elemental infusion?  Do you take people down from a distance with ranged spells, or do you summon a soulblade, enchant your armour, cast stoneskin and go hand-to-hand?  Or maybe you use summoned elementals to do your fighting while you remain invisible and watch the show?  People will have an idea of the sort of things you might be capable of, but they'll have no idea what you actually can do.

Many muds try to encourage a variety of mages by having a selection of different types - perhaps there's a pyromancer, a necromancer, a mentalist, a wizard, a sorcerer, and so on.  But each of these is still generally implemented as a cookie-cutter, whereby two characters of the same class will usually be almost exactly the same.  The God Wars II approach instead simply says "there are many different types of mages, with the following powers available - select which powers fit your idea of a mage".  It's pretty much a "create your own character class" approach.

ROM also does something along these lines, so the original poster might also consider doing a search for ROM muds.
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:00 AM   #5
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Ok, call off the search, Godwars II is the game for me. Thanks for all your help Kavir, and thanks for making a wicked game.

People should be buying your code and throwing into an Achaea-style roleplay heavy MUD, that would be hot.
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Old 01-26-2006, 12:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Naren @ Jan. 26 2006,11:00)
...an Achaea-style roleplay heavy MUD....
"Achaea-style" and role-playing? Isn't that an oxymoron?

OK, humor aside, glad to see you found a MUD that suits your requirements. Nice to see honest direction toward a game based on a player's request as opposed to the usual "we're not what you're looking for but try us anyway" routine that usually goes on. Credit to Kavir for putting together a MUD someone actually wants to play as opposed to what's usually out there trying to sell themselves to people looking for something else.

Now, if only there were more happy endings like this.

Take care,

Jason
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
I've looked at the websites for Aardwolf and Carrion Fields and lots of top 20 and top 40 muds, and I often see this.

Class Sorcerer
Level 1 dodge, recall, dagger
First I will say, no matter which MUD you play, do not be too quick to judge. I understand that it's tempting to do so, given the piles of cruddy MUDs out there. But the gems have more to them than is apparent at first glance.

Beyond that, if you are interested in a more detailed explaination of the customization options available in the Carrion Fields, read on:

Our approach is that we have lots of customization for most of our classes, and we also take the approach that no class should customize exactly the same way. (Unlike Diablo, where each class, while it can be customized quite a bit, is identifcal in that it has 3 power sets and a very consistent system of 'paths'. The powers are different, but the system is the same for each class.)

On Carrion Fields, each class is designed as an individual case with unique customization options to fit the flavor of the class as well as to create a truly novel experience each time you play a new character.

- Our invoker learns basic spells on a listing similar to what you describe, but if you look deeper, you will see that an invoker can balance his affinity for 7 different elemental paths in virtually countless ways, with each pathway unlocking different spells.

- Our warrior class can chose any 2 of 7 weapon specializations, each of which unlocks new skills. Beyond that, high level warriors can chose 2 of 36 legacies, each of which complements warriors in a different way depending on race, weapon specialization, and more.

- Our bard class allows for the switching between 4 different repertoire choices that applies to each one of his existing songs on his list, allowing a bard to perform songs to varying aesthetic and functional effect. Additionally, a bard can choose a preferred repertoire choice in which he excels, as well as chosing instruments that affect different repertoires in different ways.

- Our paladin class allows you to choose to specialize bewteen two-handed or one-handed weapon styles. In addition to that choice, the immortal deity who empowers your paladin chooses additional 1-3 sets of powers from a selection of 6. As a twist, these are chosen for you by staff members based on your roleplaying and success with the character.

- Our thief class, beyond his basic skillset, earns his way into lessons with 5 distinctly different thief guilds. This is similar to Diablo style, in that he can spread himself thin or focus all the way.

And more.


It is true that some of our classes are more homogenous than others - some of that is by design (some players may prefer a homogenous option on occasion), and some of it is that we're constantly hatching up new ways to to make our classes more unique and interesting than the last.
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Old 01-27-2006, 10:09 AM   #8
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Okay, you win, I promise I'll give carrion fields a try!
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:51 PM   #9
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Hey, I'm glad to hear it! Please let us know what you think.
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