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Old 03-14-2006, 07:49 PM   #1
the_logos
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Iron Realms is pleased to announce that we've just enabled a vast array of new payment options that will be especially helpful for our loyal customers outside of North America and those without credit cards generally who don't wish to wait for snail mail to reach us. You can now pay via methods ranging from bank transfer to Western Union Swiftpay to E-gold to Splash plastic, and many more, depending on what country you are paying from.

In order to see what payment methods are available to you (they differ by country), go to the Credits page for any of our games, and select "Other payment methods" as the payment method. You'll be taken to a website run by PayByCash that will present you with a country-specific list of payment options.

Iron Realms is committed to bringing the best quality experience possible to our players and this is just another step in that direction. Hope you enjoy it!

--matt
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Old 03-14-2006, 11:57 PM   #2
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Hi Sarapis,

I have few minor problem..when i try to fill out the credit information.. only to find the available options are visa, discover.. and other credit card(that i filled out AT achaea.com).

So i thought you might have overlook it by not impliment it, or Am I wrong?


Thanks in Advance,
Valaria from Achaea.

(when i try to order with debit card that is... )
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:01 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Valaria @ Mar. 15 2006,00:57)
Hi Sarapis,

I have few minor problem..when i try to fill out the credit information.. only to find the available options are visa, discover.. and other credit card(that i filled out AT achaea.com).

So i thought you might have overlook it by not impliment it, or Am I wrong?


Thanks in Advance,
Valaria from Achaea.
Hi Valaria,

When you go to select your payment method at the bottom of the credit purchase page, there is a drop-down menu where you select from:
1. Credit/debit card
2. Check
3. Cash/money order
4. Other payment types

All the new methods are contained under "Other payment types", so just select that and then pick whatever option is most convenient for you after that. (It'll depend on where you live and how you want to send money.)

Hope that helps!

--matt
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:04 AM   #4
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okay nevermind me, I found the 'other payment option' on the list.. silly me..


Edit: excuse my manner, i forgot to say thank you.


THANK YOU, LORD SARAPIS.

haha.. erm... I better move along, pardon me.
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:37 AM   #5
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You're welcome!
--matt
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:02 PM   #6
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Not to engender angry responses about how I'm picking on anyone, but I find this thread funny in a sad way, considering all of your MUDs advertise themselves as free.

New payment options on a free MUD! Awesome.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Aarn @ Mar. 15 2006,14<!--emo&[img
http://www.topmudsites.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img])]Not to engender angry responses about how I'm picking on anyone, but I find this thread funny in a sad way, considering all of your MUDs advertise themselves as free.

New payment options on a free MUD! Awesome.
Nice to see you're capable of sticking to your crusade, regardless of how off-topic your posts are.

--matt
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:32 PM   #8
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Nice to see you're capable of sticking to your crusade, regardless of how off-topic your posts are.
I'm sorry, I don't see how you can stretch your imagination to call that off-topic.  

Your subject: New ways to pay for your service.

My subject: Gosh, that makes your service not free.

They're directly related.  You don't even have to use any imagination to see it.  Anyway, as long as you persist in disingenuous labeling of your MUDs to draw new players, it's someones duty to point it out.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:32 PM   #9
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I don't know, that didn't seem off-topic to me.

It's definitely a shot at you, but it's an on-topic shot.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Aarn @ Mar. 15 2006,14:32)
I'm sorry, I don't see how you can stretch your imagination to call that off-topic.

Your subject: New ways to pay for your service.

My subject: Gosh, that makes your service not free.
It's off-topic because it was an advertisement for new payment options. Our games being free, or your inability to comprehend any distinctions smaller than the size of the Grand Canyon, are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Your post was, quite obviously, just yet another lame attempt at flaming. I don't know what it is with your organization, but there are a couple of you from there that really enjoy attacking at every opportunity. It's just incredibly lame and it's that kind of rank amateur behavior that ends up ensuring that few people or organizations running text MUDs are taken seriously by the games community. I know Iron Realms is taken seriously, but it'd sure be nice if people running a medium-sized hobbyist MUD like Carrion Fields could step up and behave in a manner that's not going to just get more serious developers to roll their eyes at the constant inaneness.

--matt
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:14 PM   #11
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I don't know what it is with your organization, but there are a couple of you from there that really enjoy attacking at every opportunity.
It's because one of our favorite aspets of our game is that we're free. Personally, I don't think you can find a better free game anywhere - free as in money never has any affect on game play (unless you're going to cheat, as you pointed out before, which only works until we catch you and ban you). But then there are your games, that charge money to play on even footing with everyone else, or as Valg likes to call it "Wallet slap fights". And yet, you advertise yourselves as free, same as we do. I really don't think it's hard to see why that upsets us, and why we feel the need to point it out.

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It's just incredibly lame and it's that kind of rank amateur behavior that ends up ensuring that few people or organizations running text MUDs are taken seriously by the games community.
I'm sorry man, I would have to say you're the one with the rank amateur behavior that lowers the standards all around. Whenever we try to point out that your buisness practices are disingenuous, you jump up and down like a ten year old that had his matchbox car taken away. But seeing as you have a serious monetary interest in getting people to your MUD, I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that you'll go to any lengths necessary, no matter how unscrupulous.
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:22 PM   #12
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If you really wanted to end squabbling over this, all you have to do is be straight man.  Advertise your games as "pay for perks", like they are.

You obviously offer quality games, or people wouldn't play them.  Some people want to be able to pay cash to win at games.  What gets under my skin, personally, is the way you decieve in your advertising to get new people in the door.  When people glance at that list, they see all of the top MUDs advertising themselves as "free", when two of them are "pay for perks" and one of them is "free".

So, there you go.  In short, our problem is with your advertising practices, not your game or you. We'll stop hounding you as soon as you're straight with the people who come here looking for MUDs.
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:58 PM   #13
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When people glance at that list, they see all of the top MUDs advertising themselves as "free", when two of them are "pay for perks" and one of them is "free".
I usually stay out of this discussion but I just have to step in and say they ARE free to play.  I know this has been discussed for page after page after page on other threads, but come on already.  Matt has REPEATEDLY gone in-depth about industry standards and so forth and so on.  Bottom line is the games are FREE TO PLAY, as they advertise.  

I know some folks over at Carrion Fields are up on your high-horse about how you are free and other muds aren't.  Do you think that makes you better than the other games?  It's very surprising that after all this time and all this discussion for pages that you still want to bring this argument up.  

Iron Realms games, just like Medievia, are FREE to play.  Anyone can play their games without spending a cent.  Yes spending money will get things faster than if you didn't spend money, but the bottom line is that they are FREE TO PLAY.  Anyone, anywhere, can log in and play for free for as long as they want to.

I've always thought your arguments on this point were silly and just goes to prove that you don't understand the industry standards and advertising schemes in general.  Why on earth do you care so much about this when the list owners of both large MUD portals don't care enough to change their databases?  Let it go already....
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:17 PM   #14
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I think he was staying on topic with a little bit of MUD-political satire, musing over the irony of a game that fights so hard to call itself free creating a thread with a subject called "New payment options w/ Iron Realms".

Surely, even if you have to so super-defensively reply in order to once again attempt to convince people here that Iron Realms is a "free game"(something that is obviously debateable in its own right, depending on your perspective and definition)... you still have to see the satirical humor in your subject, considering your reputation and consistant argument within the community. C'mon.
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:23 PM   #15
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I know some folks over at Carrion Fields are up on your high-horse about how you are free and other muds aren't. Do you think that makes you better than the other games?
There's no "high horse" involved. I'm sorry, I thought I was clear when I said they obviously have fine games, or else people wouldn't play. I also said there are obviously players that prefer a model that lets them pay for perks. At the same time, there are players that want to play a game for free, where money doesn't play a part.

There's no way for us to advertise ourselves as more then "Free" (adding ten exclamation points and an @ symbol after it doesn't count). And yet despite the very clear difference between our two game models, they persist on advertising themselves as "Free" as well.

They're not lying outright, which makes it even worse. You CAN play for free, until you discover that people are laying out money to get ahead of you. Then you have to decide if you want to stay behind the pack, or shell out money too. What I've said, over and over, is that it's disingenuous.

There is clearly value to a game being "free", or else we wouldn't all list it prominently. By labeling "pay for perks" games as "Free", you're taking away from the value of OUR game (not to mention the many other free MUDs), which doesn't involve money in any way.

I think any reasonable person should be able to see why this upsets us. Let me know if I'm not being clear, I'll be happy to go on.
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:08 PM   #16
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I think any reasonable person should be able to see why this upsets us. Let me know if I'm not being clear, I'll be happy to go on.
You are perfectly clear and I totally understand where you are coming from. My question was and is that if the owners of both topmudsites and mudconnector don't think enough of the issue to change their databases listing options, why bring up the argument again and again? After that whole long thread of coming up with new options for listings and nothing happening to change the status quo, why just not drop it?

It just seems to me that some people just attack for the sake of attacking the bigger games. Yes I understand your argument, but your argument has been heard time and time again, to no result. Same with the arguments and attacks against Medievia... you can argue and argue, but nothing is going to change the fact that we are a large game with a large playerbase, steadily growing. Iron Realms is not going to change their advertising scheme just because you don't like their definition of Free.
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
My question was and is that if the owners of both topmudsites and mudconnector don't think enough of the issue to change their databases listing options, why bring up the argument again and again? After that whole long thread of coming up with new options for listings and nothing happening to change the status quo, why just not drop it?
The owners of topmudsites and mudconnector stand too much to lose money-wise from Iron Realms pulling their expensive and aggressive advertising policy with the two sites. There is pretty public knowledge of the threats and insinuations made by Matt - whose condescending, conniving, and non-community supporting rhetoric is 90% of the reason your organization has a bad name with a lot of the MUDing community. It has nothing to do with the size of your game for most(and at least myself). He can bully his way into being allowed to advertise his products as free on resource sites, even when there are far more accurate models to describe them as. It is his right. It is our right to consistantly call him out on it.

As long as there is a need for change, people who are progressive and active will continue to push. If an activist or lobbyist gives up on his ideals, then he is not showing enough conviction. It has nothing to do with attacking again and again just for the sake of being offensive.

Again, as far as Iron Realms goes, the source of community issues with it stems from Matt's attitude, bullying, condescension, and general lousiness in most of his dealings with the community, including constant subtle, underhanded cheap shots at smaller MUDs, as-if Varg(or any other MUD Admin) would actually feel bad about such comments when Carrion Fields is obviously doing great for a 100% Free MUD and Iron Realms uses a more commercial model to acquire its playerbase.

I'm sure Soleil, that you are capable enough to step back and see the issues at hand. You can't expect people who want to see the right thing done to be quieted by a single company(and CEO) who thinks its self-importance outweighs an entire international gaming community. And before you accuse me of trying to be the voice of the whole community, my counter-point is that, in-fact, I was merely pointing out that Iron Realms' dedicated players/employees seem to be the only ones to ever defend your side of the argument on the community resource-site forums.
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:44 PM   #18
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My question was and is that if the owners of both topmudsites and mudconnector don't think enough of the issue to change their databases listing options, why bring up the argument again and again?
Well, it's my hope that others in the community will read these as they come up, and feel the same way. It's about all we can do when they're allowed to persist with disingenuous advertising practices. In particular - and the reason I feel it's of value to bring it up repeatedly - I hope that new players looking for a MUD to play will glance at the forums and get a handle on this as well.

Plus I hold out a glimmer of hope that matt and his ilk will see the light and come back from the dark side some day! But don't worry, it's just a small glimmer.

Thanks for understanding at least. I appologize to the people who have to read about this over and over again, but I really do feel it's worth it to continue to bring up until it's changed some day.
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Old 03-15-2006, 05:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Soleil @ Mar. 15 2006,21:58)
Iron Realms games, just like Medievia, are FREE to play.
Medievia is even less "free" than the Iron Realms games. As much as I dislike the IRE payment model, at least it supports an in-game system allowing players to trade their credits. Some player somewhere has still got to pay for your super bonuses, but the game at least provides you the means to trade with them, earning the bonuses at the expense of someone else. It is generally upon this basis that the IRE supporters put forth their claim of being 'free' - the fact that an individual player can reach full potential without personally having to pay anything.

Your mud, however, locks the equipment to the character, meaning that each player is personally required to pay in order to compete with the paying customers and their super items.
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Old 03-15-2006, 05:34 PM   #20
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Your mud, however, locks the equipment to the character, meaning that each player is personally required to pay in order to compete with the paying customers and their super items.
Well, to be nitpicky, each player does not personally have to pay. Many players do donation deals with others in exchange for in-game gold and/or equipment. In addition, there are other ways of earning donation eq credit such as publishing articles in the Mudslinger newspaper. There are some heros that have not ever paid a cent for their eq yet have full sets. So to say that each player is required to pay is false.
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