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Old 03-20-2005, 11:20 PM   #21
Yui Unifex
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Janus @ Mar. 20 2005,22:11)
I don't particularly want to argue with you, as you seem to be intent on being negative.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with being negative, especially when the situation calls for it. Yes it would be nice if we could all sit around on comfy ruby-encrusted cushions, sipping tea and patting ourselves on the back for life's little triumphs, but when you bring your circle of love to a public forum, don't be surprised when someone points out how diluted and meaningless your terms have become.

You just can't accept the fact that to most people this is not impressive, it is not a dream come true, and it does not push the envelope. Call it negativity, I call it truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Janus @ foo)
And incidently, as Achaea previously did not have this, it is a new invention as far as it's concerned.
It's amazing the kind of contortions you go through to justify your statements.
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Old 03-21-2005, 03:26 AM   #22
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Janus @ Mar. 20 2005,22:11)
...as you seem to be intent on being negative.
...
it is a new invention as far as it's concerned.
On the positive side, there are over 617 muds with furniture, and over 223 muds allow players to create their own custom furniture patterns and stylings.

Welcome to the 1990's :-)
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Mar. 20 2005,18:58)
Sorry I obviously disagree. If completely unremarkable things like this are lauded as "impressive" and seen as "pushing the envelope", we are in some seriously bad shape. Pointing this out is hardly pointless.
Can you please give me the address of your successful, popular MUD where your fully feature furniture exists, as well as numerous features far superior to it?

Just because something is mundane in RL doesn't mean it is not cool when implemented in a game world.

Furniture that works and can be designed in very detailed ways is very cool and is not something that commonly exists in games (in a well developed, extensive fashion).

The huge mega-million dollar MMOs coming out lately cannot even manage to do it extensively. DAoC had furniture but it was absolute useless garbage.

It is very easy to poo poo something just because you didn't do it yourself.
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 21 2005,06:43)
Can you please give me the address of your successful, popular MUD where your fully feature furniture exists, as well as numerous features far superior to it?

Just because something is mundane in RL doesn't mean it is not cool when implemented in a game world.

Furniture that works and can be designed in very detailed ways is very cool and is not something that commonly exists in games (in a well developed, extensive fashion).

The huge mega-million dollar MMOs coming out lately cannot even manage to do it extensively. DAoC had furniture but it was absolute useless garbage.

It is very easy to poo poo something just because you didn't do it yourself.
Any of the RPI MUDs feature similar, and often times quite better, options with furniture than that which Achaea is inflating the significance of.

http://www.harshlands.net
http://www.middle-earth.us
http://www.armageddon.org
(To say nothing of Forever's End, Forever Ends, Chronicles of Ritnarium, and any other RPI MUDs that are no more or still in development).

As I've said before, I've tried two of the IRE games and came away noticing nothing that I couldn't find already (and more well-done) on free MUDs. That doesn't just go for furniture alone. I've never encountered RP that surpasses that on the MUDs I've listed above and I've seen great H&S combat on MUDs like Necromium.

Sorry, but the "innovative" and "pushing the envelope" furniture on Achaea is neither innovative nor pushing the envelope. It's old hat and the fact that it didn't exist already in a pay-to-play continues to make me wonder why people choose such games over far better, more innovative, and totally free MUDs. I guess it's like cheap wine. If the best wine you've ever tried comes in a box, you won't really know there's anything better until you try something else.

Take care,

Jason
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Old 03-21-2005, 09:25 AM   #25
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 21 2005,06:43)
Yui Unifex:
Sorry I obviously disagree. If completely unremarkable things like this are lauded as "impressive" and seen as "pushing the envelope", we are in some seriously bad shape. Pointing this out is hardly pointless.

Threshold:
Can you please give me the address of your successful, popular MUD where your fully feature furniture exists, as well as numerous features far superior to it?
Welcome to the amazing bizarro-world of Threshold, where only people who have successful, popular MUDs can recognize which features are found all over the goddamn place.

You've gotta be kidding me if you think that the only reason I can't recognize how amazing this envelope-pushing feature is is because I "haven't implemented it myself". Justifying these statements takes 10 minutes with a couple of mudsite search engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ foo)
Just because something is mundane in RL doesn't mean it is not cool when implemented in a game world.
Oh I certainly agree. It's hard to approach the coolness of being the first kid on the block to own a broken chair.
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Old 03-21-2005, 10:27 AM   #26
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Janus:Hmm, some people here really are terribly negative. It's a nice new feature for Achaea...

Threshold:It is very easy to poo poo something just because you didn't do it yourself.

1) Please tell me that a thread does not exist where Achaea supporters are decrying negative posting on TMS.  I'd prefer to think it was a hallucination, and not that people have overlooked the_logos's previous posts.  Yui and others are a lot more mature about being critical to boot.

2) While we don't have customizable, purchase-able furniture(*) (we have several stores with customizable products, but not furniture), it is a feature I've seen elsewhere, usually in conjunction with the ability to buy houses, etc.  I think that the original post is well and good, but that people are getting carried away with proclaiming the virtues of the ability to make special chairs.

(*): Different culture, really.  Equipment and possessions are very transient in our game... we try to discourage characters from being too focused on that.
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Old 03-21-2005, 10:46 AM   #27
 
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It was actually August of 1989 when players of muds aquired the power to create sofas, beds, ottomans, lazyboys, chairs, curtains, linen, jewel-encrusted, finely lathed and whatever their imagination could possibly conjure up unlimited by color, type, style, weight, height, coverings and someone else's idea of what the "options" were.

By 1991 this furniture was swallowing items, eating players, cooking eggs into omelets, transmuting lead into gold, serving sodas and beer, and of course talking and moving around on its own power.

By 1994 a very much limited and nerfed implementation of furniture started appearing on some Diku muds.
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Old 03-21-2005, 02:53 PM   #28
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Total stats on furniture so far:
235 items purchased
7.717 million gold total
Average of 32,838 gold per piece

If prof515, Tyche, and Yui Unifex work together, I bet we can keep this thread on the front page of TMS at least another week or two.

--matt
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Old 03-21-2005, 03:05 PM   #29
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Mar. 21 2005,14:53)
If prof515, Tyche, and Yui Unifex work together, I bet we can keep this thread on the front page of TMS at least another week or two.
I think you're going to have to wind up some more of your clockwork minions first. But seriously, nobody but yourself cares how much advertisement you get from this.
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Old 03-21-2005, 03:24 PM   #30
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Various player reactions to furniture, from Achaea's forums at achaea.ire-community.com:

One of the things that has always impressed me about Achaea (apart from the depth in combat) is the way the Divine listen to our requests and suggestions.

I've played several Muds & MMORPG's and I would have to say that your attention to your userbase and customer service is No. 1.

Give yourselves a pat on the back!! Good job all round!

I am aboslutely ecstatic about this implementation! Kudos you wonderful Divine.

Wow, this system is awesome! Thanks.

--matt
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Old 03-21-2005, 04:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Mar. 21 2005,21:24)
Various player reactions to furniture, from Achaea's forums
I'm unsure as to the purpose of your post. Are you trying to emphasis how many players are delighted with mediocre and outdated features? If so, I'd have thought that would be more than apparent by the number of stock muds out there.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:15 PM   #32
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More player quotes, from in-game rather than the communities:

Overall a wonderful and long needed system in terms of the belivability in the world, cheers to the divine for getting it done.

Everything you guys do, you take to the next level. Other MUDs have furniture systems. None that I've seen even come close. This kind of attention to detail is why I've personally spent over $6000 on Iron Realms games.

--matt
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:18 PM   #33
 
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Whoops... Looks like furniture was available in Dikus as early as 1993. I stand corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blade of ShadowMud Apr 7 1993, 11:21 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: tjall...@usc.edu (Blade of ShadowMud)
Date: 7 Apr 1993 23:16:24 -0700
Local: Wed, Apr 7 1993 11:16 pm
Subject: Coins...

...
Allow players to buy Castles/rooms/etc. What we did was put in a street
just outside of town that had open lots for sale. What we charged was 10mil
coins for each room, 5mil for each piece of furniture *fountains/etc*, and
we also did custom work such as loading mob guards for them, or a special pet
that they could ride or have follow them.

After doing this we thought EVERYONE would buy one....BUT...if you charge
the correct amount...not to low...you will find only about 5 or 6 people will
be able to pay for a single room. We have had players group together and set
up a few rooms. And out of those 5 or 6 players..only a few of them could
set up pets/furniture...and those were the people that sat around and hit
all the *fast* money places.
On Tinymuds this was not conceived as a gold sink for an unbalanced game.

On TinyMud a player could spend a penny to create a piece of furniture, rooms cost nothing. Later on TinyMOO and TinyMush this was called a quota. The primary reason for pennies and quota limits was to prevent the mud from running out of memory as it was an expensive and limited on university computers.

Later disk-based muds either eliminated the quota altogether or left it in place but set it higher just to prevent players from spamming the creation of mass quantities of comfortable sofas and chairs.

It is good to see commercial muds attempt exploration of fundamental and ubiquitous concepts found on hobbyist muds ( even if the implementation is severely nerfed and highly restricted).
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:20 PM   #34
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This thread is a riot!!

When I saw an Achae thread on the first page of TMS I just knew there had to be a lot of retarded bickering going on.

Keep up the good work everyone!

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Old 03-21-2005, 05:24 PM   #35
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 21 2005,06:43)
Can you please give me the address of your successful, popular MUD where your fully feature furniture exists, as well as numerous features far superior to it?
What's the address of the Sims Online? You know that wildly unpopular mud game entirely about furniture aquisition.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:27 PM   #36
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Angry

After going through this thread there are two things clear to me:

1.- the_logos (or his Achaea team) implemented furniture in their game, making it available to players who seemingly had wanted this feature for some time. It seems like eventhough some (many?) have been paying to get some quick start/development of their characters and have not had this feature available before, some are glad this has been put in now.

2.- The idea of adding furniture to a text game is not innovative or will change the MUD's paradigm or will cause Microsoft to file for bankrupcy (sadly).

Now, rightly the_logos has used the space on advertising for players to tell everybody that a new (for their MUD at least) feature is available, he has given some links to the relevant information and that was it. Shortly after someone overstated how cool it was (but maybe they were just one of the players who just wanted the feature added for long time). After that, a string of flames about how unoriginal the idea is, how it is amazing people play pay-per-perks games, how so many free games have Hammocks you can sleep in and have had them for a while, etc etc ... it is really amazing how Logos gets immediate responses everytime he posts, I'd swear Yuki is one of his minions because it sure looks like the only goal is to keep the thread alive!

Now seriously, you all are entitled to an opinion, you can of course post it here, but I fail to see why and advertisement must have a discussion attached to it, actually, not a discussion but a flame-war attached to it.

People try to ridicule Achaea because they did not have the simplest of the things, "furniture", but you fail to realize that it is then more impressive that they are so succesful even if they overlooked these "simple things". I have not played Achaea, or any IRE game for that mater, I am actually not fond of the_logos posts most of the time, but latelly it just looks like everybody is so stupidly eager to bash whatever he says or posts that whatever he writes over here becomes in a week-long Achaea (or IRE) advertisement spree.

Contributing to the add-spree ...

... and sincerelly yours ...

Spoke.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:27 PM   #37
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I thought i might make a recomendation for a much needed inclusion. The object type that would appeal to me most is absent from the available items of furniture.

Could I please request the crafting of a deep stone, lead lined commode with a broad circumfernece. I've been after somewhere to store the pointless posts of Logos for quite some time.


Taking the thread down to the levil it merits
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:38 PM   #38
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Yet more quotes, since some worthy TMS members appear to be quite fascinated by it:

"Once again, Achaea shows why it's the MUD to play."

"This is AWESOME!! Ima decorate my house immediately."

"My major disappointment with this system is the lack of dried mud as a building material. We horkvals like mud. Otherwise, it kicks ass!"

--matt
P.S. I'll be pleased to continue to post quotes as long as so many TMS members show such interest in this topic. Just let me know.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:59 PM   #39
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I'm not the biggest fan of Achaea, but Spoke raises a good point in that Achaea has been successful without these features for quite awhile, even when Imperian has had them since opening I believe. I myself was actually quite amazed to learn that Achaea just got it, when another IRE game already has furniture.

I'm all for bashing Achaea, but really, there so many better things to nickpick on, other than furniture.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:11 PM   #40
 
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Now I haven't posted any flames on this thread. I've made some historical observations, and I think some quite encouraging comments lauding our slower and less agile cousins in the commercial mud community.
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