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Old 03-21-2005, 07:44 PM   #41
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OH MY GOD! Since a feature existed on some Dikus (most of which nobody ever played), any implementation of a similar feature is therefore lame and not cool.

Xerox was the first company to create the GUI. It sure didn't do them much good though, eh?

Great logic there, trolls.

It really is amazing the degree to which people with NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS will trash the actually productive efforts of other people.
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:51 PM   #42
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Can somebody tell me how in god's name THE CHAIR THREAD gets more posts than a more intelectually stimulating conversation about race originality, the purpose of life, or something that is not about FURNITURE?!?
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Ilkidarios @ Mar. 21 2005,20:51)
Can somebody tell me how in god's name THE CHAIR THREAD gets more posts than a more intelectually stimulating conversation about race originality, the purpose of life, or something that is not about FURNITURE?!?
Where the #### have you been? This thread isn't about furniture. At least not anymore. It's yet another threat about how IRE sux0rz because they're greedy capitalist pigs....

*snicker*
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:07 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Mar. 21 2005,17:38)
P.S. I'll be pleased to continue to post quotes as long as so many TMS members show such interest in this topic. Just let me know.
Upon noticing that a particular opinion is unpopular among the TMS members and was causing flames, the logos declared "I will post the opinion, as expressed by various people, and thus feed the flames, whilever the flames continue."

Pretty childish.

In an attempt to make this thread somewhat constructive: Is Achaea's implementation of furniture innovative and cover new ground no other mud has? Why/why not?

I personally think it does (compared to Armageddon which is the only mud I've played with furniture). He has limited the furniture code in some aspects (probably to make more money), which cuts down on the innovation. I'd say one aspect is innovative (if other people know of specific muds that already had this feature feel free to mention it here).

Furniture can't be stolen, or even moved!

Furniture cannot be given, traded, or transferred.


It's implementation is limited. Other implementations (e.g. Armageddon) allow (most) furniture to be moved from room to room.

Getting rid of furniture

This is again limited due to the fact you can't move furniture and can't sell it to other people. It's a complicated implementation of a bad part of the system.

New commands

Nothing innovative here. These (should be) the norm for muds with furniture.

Furniture Selection

Very innovative (compared to Armageddon). Instead of having human-made descriptions, furniture has a list of attributes with new combinations creating new furniture. This way by adding in 1 attribute, hundreds of new furniture can (in theory) be created.

Decay

Yup. Compared to Armageddon this is innovative. Armageddon's furniture doesn't decay. It's weapons and armor and clothing do, but not furniture.

Pricing

Looks ridiculously overpriced, but nothing overly-innovative here. It's automatic pricing is a side-effect to the automatic creation of items.

One place it possibly lacks in innovation, is not allowing people to create furniture. Does the furniture have a crafting system? If not, then it's lacking in that regard
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 22 2005,02:44)
OH MY GOD! Since a feature existed on some Dikus (most of which nobody ever played), any implementation of a similar feature is therefore lame and not cool.
Neither, just nothing to be shouting about, and certainly not something which "pushes the feature envelope for online games" as you previously claimed. The_logos has responded to other people in much the same way when they've claimed to have something 'original', so I fail to your problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
It really is amazing the degree to which people with NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS will trash the actually productive efforts of other people.
Or perhaps we just don't boast about every minor feature we implement? What next - an advert about how your mud now has objects that save over reboots, perhaps? Maybe some promotional material about now having colour? Or perhaps you've recently introduced mobs? Being over a decade behind the times is not something I'd boast about.
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:13 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 21 2005,20:44)
Since a feature existed on some Dikus (most of which nobody ever played), any implementation of a similar feature is therefore lame and not cool.
No you're getting it mixed up again. The historical data shows that not only has the envelope already been pushed, it has been pushed further more than a decade prior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ foo)
Great logic there, trolls.
Great reading comprehension, moron.

I don't think anyone said furniture was lame. I mean, where else are you going to sit? It's just not very, very impressive. I know it's convenient for you to see the world in black and white, but believe it or not there are degrees between super awesome and utterly lame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ foo)
It really is amazing the degree to which people with NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS will trash the actually productive efforts of other people.
So you're one of those guys that hates movie reviews because the movie producers didn't write them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by (WarHound @ foo)
here the #### have you been? This thread isn't about furniture. At least not anymore. It's yet another threat about how IRE sux0rz because they're greedy capitalist pigs.... ;)
Er, nobody has said anything of the sort. Please read the thread next time.
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Old 03-21-2005, 09:23 PM   #47
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Some more player testimonials, in this here advertising thread:

"Those kids on TMS forums are funny. Furniture rocks."

"*squeal* FURNITURE!"

--matt
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:04 AM   #48
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the_logos - is there a specific reason why I would not be able to sell my furniture or just give it to someone else if I so like? I would most importantly like to be able to move it - why is this not possible?
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:14 AM   #49
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4-->
Quote:
Originally Posted by (bbg @ Mar. 22 2005,01[img
http://www.topmudsites.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]4)]the_logos - is there a specific reason why I would not be able to sell my furniture or just give it to someone else if I so like?  I would most importantly like to be able to move it - why is this not possible?
Yes, but TMS is, frankly, not the place to discuss intelligent design. Bring it up on the Achaea forums if you're a player and are interested. I can't promise I'll reply (the forums are way too active for us to reply to everything asked), but you never know!

--matt
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:35 AM   #50
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ok
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:03 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 21 2005,20:44)
OH MY GOD! Since a feature existed on some Dikus (most of which nobody ever played), any implementation of a similar feature is therefore lame and not cool.

Xerox was the first company to create the GUI. It sure didn't do them much good though, eh?

Great logic there, trolls.

It really is amazing the degree to which people with NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS will trash the actually productive efforts of other people.
You seem to be missing the point. Achaea's advertising their furniture inaccurately (like they advertise the RP and most other aspects of their games), crediting themselves with "innovative" features which are anything but.

Instead of responding to the criticisms of his exagerrations, Matt has instead ignored their points and offered "testimonials" from his playerbase, a group that most likely hasn't tried anything but his games, as evidence of the innovation of the features. So yeah, IRE games are going to sound great to them (and even if they didn't, he's not going to post the negatives anyway). But many who've tried more than one MUD often find that what they once considered great is in fact average or worse when they expand their base of comparison. I for one have tried well over 800 MUDs including all the IRE games and not found them the least bit impressive. In fact, having tried Achaea three different times over the last four years, my impression has steadily gone down as I've seen free-to-play MUDs produce much finer games and features in much more impressive manners.

And regarding name-calling, the worst I've seen on this particular discussion has come from you, who've failed to use logic or reason in your posts, ignoring any points made by others in favor of flames.

And as for your criticism of those with "no accomplishments", I've played Threshold MUD too. You fall solidly in that category as well so maybe you ought to take your own advice about being an illogical troll and spend your time bringing that MUD up to par. And try a few other MUDs out there. You might gain inspiration for your own. Just don't call catching-up with what's out there "innovative" or "pushing the envelope."

Take care,

Jason
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:13 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Mar. 17 2005,04:59)
Achaea implemented a comprehensive system of furniture for player houses today. You can find details in the following files:

Furniture Overview
Furniture Selection
Furniture Pricing
Furniture Commands
Furniture Decay

Enjoy! Expansions to the furniture system, which is already wildly popular, are being worked on even now.

--matt
<headscratch>

All right, maybe I'm having a blond moment and missing something here - but I don't see anywhere in Matt's post a claim that their furniture system is "innovative" in a way that "pushes the envelope."

He's posting about a new feature in one of his games that he's obviously excited about having finished and implemented. No, it isn't the first of its kind. No, it certainly isn't pushing any sort of envelope. But it is a new feature that I'm sure he worked quite hard on to get out there for his players.

Is there something wrong with being revved up about some new work you've implemented? I know I do it all the time - certainly it wasn't the first time in the MU* world when I integrated our game with a phpBB system, or implemented account-based logins, or wrote up wounds- and location-based combat code - but that didn't stop me from being excited and proud about it once it was done. And it certainly didn't stop me from ranting about it to anyone who would listen.

So sue me. I'm a nerd. I have a nerd-like hobby. I get excited about nerd-like things. Is that suddenly not allowed here any longer, or what?

Judging from some of the other advertisements/promotions/bragging posts in this area of the forum that have gone without response, I'm going to hazard a wild guess here and say that the identity of the OP has more to do with the responses to this thread than the actual content.
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:44 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by
I'm going to hazard a wild guess here and say that the identity of the OP has more to do with the responses to this thread than the actual content.
Close, but no cigar Traithe. The posts here have more to do with the rabid fanboys that are posting in this thread than with Matt himself. Threshhold and Ilkidarios in particular seemed to be overly boosting this thread and over hyping this system for whatever reason. Whether they get any benefit in game, or Threshold has some deal based upon the old engine, who knows, and who cares. Rampant fanboyism almost always leads to attacks on the opposite end of the spectrum.

The only thing Matt has really done in this thread is encourage flames by posting "quotes" as he calls them. Whether they're truly from players, or utter jargon just made up as part of his "push the post up" campaign, I don't know, and again, I don't care. Just thought I'd bring these things to light for those that can't seem to see the reason behind the amount of posts in this thread.
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:45 AM   #54
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More player testimonials:

"Clementius is so awesome! We asked for furniture and bam! It's in!"

"Your furniture system is just another thing that makes me know I made the right choose[sic] spending my time in AChaea."

--matt
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Old 03-22-2005, 08:21 AM   #55
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Yui Unifex, spend more time creating something and less time criticising the creations of others. Perhaps then you'd accomplish something that a troll like yourself would deem worthy of flaming.

Let us recap:

* A game administrator announced a new feature in his game.

* It *IS* a nifty feature that clearly many people a) wanted and b) are now very excited about.

* It is also something that potential customers might find interesting.

* Sadly, because some folks don't like the guy who posted (or the fact that he makes money off his games) they trot out the same hackneyed flames that can be used to criticise ANYTHING (oh! its been done before! ).

That's just ridiculous, childish behavior.
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Old 03-22-2005, 09:35 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 22 2005,09:21)
Yui Unifex, spend more time creating something and less time criticising the creations of others.
I've released two custom codebases to the public domain and am very close to releasing my third. In addition, I've been providing coding help to mud coders for half a decade, and have been coding muds for nearly eight years. Just because we have different audiences doesn't mean I haven't contributed anything to the community.

With that out of the way, credentials mean squat when it comes to easily observable and verifiable facts. It doesn't take a PhD in physics to tell you that the sky is blue. Your focus on credentials instead of the actual points we've all been making clearly shows how your argument is groundless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Thershold @ foo)
Let us recap:

* A game administrator announced a new feature in his game.

* It *IS* a nifty feature that clearly many people a) wanted and b) are now very excited about.

* It is also something that potential customers might find interesting.

* Sadly, because some folks don't like the guy who posted (or the fact that he makes money off his games) they trot out the same hackneyed flames that can be used to criticise ANYTHING (oh! its been done before! ).
You forgot a point in there, where you specifically stated it was pushing the envelope. My response to you was that it definitely was not.

This has nothing to do with a like or dislike for the_logos or his business, and everything to do with the misconceptions you've been stuffing down everyone's throats. I think it's amazing if anyone would take seriously a "recap" coming from someone with such an amazing track record for misunderstanding and missing the point.
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:37 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Traithe @ Mar. 22 2005,04:13)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Mar. 17 2005,04:59)
Achaea implemented a comprehensive system of furniture for player houses today. You can find details in the following files:

Furniture Overview
Furniture Selection
Furniture Pricing
Furniture Commands
Furniture Decay

Enjoy! Expansions to the furniture system, which is already wildly popular, are being worked on even now.

--matt
<headscratch>

All right, maybe I'm having a blond moment and missing something here - but I don't see anywhere in Matt's post a claim that their furniture system is "innovative" in a way that "pushes the envelope."

He's posting about a new feature in one of his games that he's obviously excited about having finished and implemented. No, it isn't the first of its kind. No, it certainly isn't pushing any sort of envelope. But it is a new feature that I'm sure he worked quite hard on to get out there for his players.

Is there something wrong with being revved up about some new work you've implemented? I know I do it all the time - certainly it wasn't the first time in the MU* world when I integrated our game with a phpBB system, or implemented account-based logins, or wrote up wounds- and location-based combat code - but that didn't stop me from being excited and proud about it once it was done. And it certainly didn't stop me from ranting about it to anyone who would listen.

So sue me. I'm a nerd. I have a nerd-like hobby. I get excited about nerd-like things. Is that suddenly not allowed here any longer, or what?

Judging from some of the other advertisements/promotions/bragging posts in this area of the forum that have gone without response, I'm going to hazard a wild guess here and say that the identity of the OP has more to do with the responses to this thread than the actual content.
Personally, I have no problem with a MUD advertising their features, so long as they maintain a realistic sense about it. That these features were touted as "innovative" and "pushing the envelope" when they're not is a little misleading.

Personally, I'm glad that people paying to play his game have more features. Less of a waste of their money. But a good number of the advertisements posted, not just Matt's, on this forum are often exagerrations and sad claims of awesome features when they're really not. And often, you're right, noone comments on the overblown claims of those sub-par MUDs either. Maybe I need to frequent the forums more because I probably miss a lot of them.

I'm just as critical about any advertisement, not just on TMS, of products that really aren't that good. That's why I don't watch commercials. Not only do they generate a negative response in me nearly 100% of the time (I'm less inclined to buy most products that advertise themselves because marketing usually brings out my stubborn nature if I see any exagerration or ploy rather than a truthful assessment of the quality of the goods offered), they usually inspire me to comment to those around me of the mistruths and tricks used in them. I do admire when products are truthfully assessed and exagerrations humbly countered by the very people whose products are overblown by others though. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I believe modesty is a virtue.

I still love that quote by Thoreau:

"...instead of studying how to make it worth men's while to buy my baskets, I studied rather how to avoid the necessity of selling them."

Take care,

Jason
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:44 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Mar. 20 2005,23:20)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus,Mar. 20 2005,22:11
I don't particularly want to argue with you, as you seem to be intent on being negative.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with being negative, especially when the situation calls for it.  Yes it would be nice if we could all sit around on comfy ruby-encrusted cushions, sipping tea and patting ourselves on the back for life's little triumphs, but when you bring your circle of love to a public forum, don't be surprised when someone points out how diluted and meaningless your terms have become.

You just can't accept the fact that to most people this is not impressive, it is not a dream come true, and it does not push the envelope.  Call it negativity, I call it truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Janus @ foo)
And incidently, as Achaea previously did not have this, it is a new invention as far as it's concerned.
It's amazing the kind of contortions you go through to justify your statements.



There is a difference between being critically constructive and being bluntly inconsiderate, o smug one.
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:55 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Valg @ Mar. 21 2005,10:27)
Yui ... are a lot more mature about being critical to boot.
If you've read all his posts here in this thread, one might say this is hardly accurate. People who cannot counter topics productively with level-headed arguments and must instead lash out bitterly and quickly with excessive sarcastic and self-righteous claims are hardly deserving of the word "mature."
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Elof_X @ Mar. 22 2005,15:55)
Valg:
Yui ... are a lot more mature about being critical to boot.

Elof_X:
If you've read all his posts here in this thread, one might say this is hardly accurate. People who cannot counter topics productively with level-headed arguments and must instead lash out bitterly and quickly with excessive sarcastic and self-righteous claims are hardly deserving of the word "mature."
So back up your claims and quote the topic have I not countered productively and with a level-headed argument. I should note that that someone calling me names will never get a dignified response in return.
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