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Old 03-23-2005, 11:05 AM   #81
Janus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Mar. 23 2005,12:42)
There is no argument. There is just Janus whining about my being "negative". I'm glad he's not willing to continue.

Jesus, did I offend the Imperian Pansy Guild?
Not particularly. In honesty, I merely have better things to occupy my time with.

I should, at this point, highlight the fact that whilst I am a member of the Imperian team, my opinions and views do not necessarily reflect those of Imperian, or of Iron Realms Entertainment.

The opinion I have formed of you is mine alone, though no doubt echoed by others observing your risible dialog.

Sincerely,

Janus
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:25 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Juganothion @ Mar. 23 2005,02:52)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with being negative, especially when the situation calls for it.  Yes it would be nice if we could all sit around on comfy ruby-encrusted cushions, sipping tea and patting ourselves on the back for life's little triumphs, but when you bring your circle of love to a public forum, don't be surprised when someone points out how diluted and meaningless your terms have become.
Are you just that thick? Janus is mature, unfortunately, and chooses not to argue with someone who is unwilling to talk in a manner suitable for adults.

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There is a difference between being critically constructive and being bluntly inconsiderate, o smug one.
Have you ever taken a marketing class?  This is done everyday.  He doesn't have to contort much of anything when the obvious is much easier.
Hi there Juganothion. I'd just like to point out that you've quoted the wrong person, and that the first quote starting with "There is nothing intrinsically..." is not me but our friend Yui. Our friend Janus is most certainly mature.
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:23 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Tyche @ Mar. 23 2005,09:13)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 23 2005,08:27)
Please, go work on something somebody cares about.
Furniture?
Does ThresholdMurpe have furniture?
1) Yes.

2) What is ThresholdMurpe?
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:26 PM   #84
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Darn, well I guess people will win the battles that they can.


And currently, Imperian has no pansy guilds, though the Hunters just had a cool overhaul on all their skills, check it out.
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Old 03-23-2005, 07:37 PM   #85
 
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Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 23 2005,17:23)
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Originally Posted by
Does ThresholdMurpe have furniture?
1) Yes.
I find that to be highly improbable. I seriously doubt your claim. I think you just copied the feature. Most muds don't have furniture. I didn't even include ThresholdMurpe in the 600+ muds of was thinking of that did have furniture because I knew that Murpses are rather primitive things that have never pushed any mud envelopes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 23 2005,17:23)
2) What is ThresholdMurpe?
You tell me. I know the R stand for Retarded.

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Originally Posted by
Threshold is *not* an LPMUD. I consider that statement almost defamatory
*smirk*
-Aristotle@ThresholdMURPE
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
VISIT THRESHOLD MURPE! Online High Fantasy RPG!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I expect the retard running the murpsey thing might know what the heck it is.
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:13 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Mar. 23 2005,07:42)
Jesus, did I offend the Imperian Pansy Guild?
Heh, Imperian pansy... You can't just let him get away with that, we have to keep the flame war going! This flame will not end! It will be the burning fire in eternity, like the light of a star in the blackest night! Flame, flame like the wind!
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:04 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by (Tyche @ Mar. 23 2005,19:37)
I expect the retard running the murpsey thing might know what the heck it is.
Tyche, grow up.

Dredging up an 8+ year old post from usenet is idiotic.

The fact that you have something like that saved is indicative of a SEVERE obsession you have. Quit the stalking.

Seriously, do something productive with your life.

You are a worthless troll who is beneath contempt.
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:06 PM   #88
 
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Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 24 2005,05:99)
Tyche, grow up.

Dredging up an 8+ year old post from usenet is idiotic.
Don't ask me utterly stupid questions that only *murpe* knows the answer to. *murpe*

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 24 2005,05:99)
The fact that you have something like that saved is indicative of a SEVERE obsession you have. Quit the stalking.
*murpe* It'll take a lot more than wearing a manzier and wiggling your rear end to convince me that you're even worth stalking. *murpe*

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 24 2005,05:99)
Seriously, do something productive with your life.
Pull my finger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 24 2005,05:99)
You are a worthless troll who is beneath contempt.
*muuuuurrrrrpe!*
*muuuuurrrrrpe!*
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:32 PM   #89
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Juganothion @ Mar. 23 2005,17:26)
And currently, Imperian has no pansy guilds, though the Hunters just had a cool overhaul on all their skills, check it out.
Are you sure there's no pansy guild?  Perhaps it's unofficial.

And I did check out the hunter class.  The additions are excellent.  I very much enjoyed the Bake Cupcake craft skill, as well as the new Weapon Focus: Pillow.
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Old 03-24-2005, 02:16 PM   #90
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I've lost alot of respect for a number of you.

For all of the IRE haters: Come on guys. This has finally gotten ridiculous. It seems like every time logos speaks up, you idiots come out of the woods to heckle him. Why? Because people pay him to play his game? ****ing get over it, and grow up. From what I've seen, IRE is doing well, and will continue to do well. Harassing logos does nothing except make him even more smug. Way to fuel the flames, guys.

For all of the IRE defenders: You guys have only made it worse. logos, you in particular have fanned the flames. While it might be good advertising, I think it is, or should be, beneath you. I think your best bet would be to ignore **** like this, and continue to do whatever it is you do.

For everyone: Shame on you all. This is the most assinine argument I've every had the misfortune to read, over FURNITURE... *shakes head*

And I'm out. Maybe I'll go to Achaea and buy a chair to sit on... Or, ####, mebbe I'll go somewhere and.... not sit. Either way, I think if I read another post in this thread my head might explode off my shoulders.

-WP
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Old 03-24-2005, 02:21 PM   #91
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6-->
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Tyche @ Mar. 24 2005,12[img
http://www.topmudsites.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]6)]*muuuuurrrrrpe!*
*muuuuurrrrrpe!*
Hahahahahaha.

Tyche, you are really embarassing yourself. Thanks. I suckered you right into exposing yourself as a freakish, obsessed stalker who keeps files of posts I wrote on usenet almost a decade ago. That fact alone is scary and (for you) humiliating.

You took the bait nicely.

Also, thanks for giving me credit for creating the term MURPE. The fact that you think I am embarassed by the acronym is boggling. I'm quite proud of having coined the term. While we don't use it any longer, it is a great acronym that a lot of games still use. We're glad we could help.

Thanks for making a complete fool of yourself. It has been VERY entertaining.
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Old 03-24-2005, 04:23 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 24 2005,14:21)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Tyche @ Mar. 24 2005,12[img
http://www.topmudsites.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img])]*muuuuurrrrrpe!*
*muuuuurrrrrpe!*
Hahahahahaha.

Tyche, you are really embarassing yourself. Thanks. I suckered you right into exposing yourself as a freakish, obsessed stalker who keeps files of posts I wrote on usenet almost a decade ago. That fact alone is scary and (for you) humiliating.

You took the bait nicely.

Also, thanks for giving me credit for creating the term MURPE. The fact that you think I am embarassed by the acronym is boggling. I'm quite proud of having coined the term. While we don't use it any longer, it is a great acronym that a lot of games still use. We're glad we could help. <!--emo&

Thanks for making a complete fool of yourself. It has been VERY entertaining.
What pray tell does this paranoia over someone supposedly "stalking" you have to do with furniture again? How's it a defense of your view on it?

I agree, this discussion has run its course and is really nothing more now than flaming. Achaea has furniture. While it's new there, it's been shown to be nothing innovative to MUDs, with plenty of other games having had it for years (many well into their second decade).

It would really be nice if people who should know better didn't try to pass off the ordinary as extraordinary in the hopes that they'll attract those who don't know better. Alas, that's advertising though. And if every false claim about the quality of the MUDs on TMS were removed, there wouldn't be enough to field a top 20 list, much less 100.

It's been said in another discussion, but I'll repeat it here. If you're looking for innovation, look at some of the smaller MUDs, though you'll find it in some of the bigger ones too. Just don't believe the claims of most of them on this forum or in their TMS listings.

Anyway, someone ought to just lock this thing since it doesn't appear to be about furniture anymore. Just my thoughts.

Take care,

Jason
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Old 03-24-2005, 04:49 PM   #93
 
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Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 24 2005,14:21)
....exposing yourself as a freakish, obsessed stalker...
m^m^m^mmurpe?
Boy he shure has pretty murpsey lips don't he Bubba?
Muuurrrpe! Muuurrrpe!
Mrrrraaappe!

*murpe*
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:02 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ Mar. 24 2005,16:23)
It would really be nice if people who should know better didn't try to pass off the ordinary as extraordinary in the hopes that they'll attract those who don't know better.
As this is one of the only polite and intelligent things said out of an amazing load of nonsense from the usual suspects, I'll respond to this.

Nowhere did anyone from Iron Realms claim that furniture was extraordinary. Advertisement does not require claims of innovation, nor does advertising a feature imply claims of innovation. For anyone not totally disconnected from the real world, this should be obvious.

--matt
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:27 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Mar. 24 2005,17:02)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ Mar. 24 2005,16:23)
It would really be nice if people who should know better didn't try to pass off the ordinary as extraordinary in the hopes that they'll attract those who don't know better.
As this is one of the only polite and intelligent things said out of an amazing load of nonsense from the usual suspects, I'll respond to this.

Nowhere did anyone from Iron Realms claim that furniture was extraordinary. Advertisement does not require claims of innovation, nor does advertising a feature imply claims of innovation. For anyone not totally disconnected from the real world, this should be obvious.

--matt
Well, and I probably didn't make myself completely clear on this, it is true that you didn't say it was innovative. That was Threshold who did. When his comments were questioned, you could have stated what you just did above and I for one would have been quite satisfied.

I guess I just get sick of seeing so many MUDs on these forums hype themselves up ("great" this and "great" that and you try them out and they're stock code/world/features) and see some others jump in and hype up things (like Threshold's comments about furniture) when there's no need for it. The total effect is that too much garbage gets passed off as incredible, while a lot of incredible stuff gets overlooked because its designers are more modest.

I know I've been working on some MUD concepts for years. I haven't taken the plunge into actually creating the MUD though because I truly want to make it something. Not simply claim it is.

I did have a thought on features, but then I realized that people would simply exagerrate that as well. But maybe it'd be nice to have a chart with a huge list of various detailed features that can be cross-indexed with a the list of MUDs on TMS. Hundreds of elements like furniture, crafting, non-armor clothing, non-weapon objects, etc. could be listed so people could get an honest appreciation for what's out there. As is, a lot of little details about some terrific MUDs must apparently be unknown to a lot of people. After all, someone comented in this discussion that they didn't know of many MUDs with furniture. I know of dozens of them, but apparently that knowledge isn't as common as I thought. If it is common, comments like Threshold's "innovative" remark make people question his intentions.

For the record, good for you Matt that you've implemented furniture. It's a good feature that your pbase will likely enjoy. I still am surprised it's taken this long though. Crack the whip, man!

Take care,

Jason
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:28 PM   #96
 
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Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ Mar. 24 2005,16:23)
Achaea has furniture. While it's new there, it's been shown to be nothing innovative to MUDs, with plenty of other games having had it for years (many well into their second decade).
Actually technically and legally speaking, Acheea does NOT have furniture at all. It has fixtures.

I've watched Judge Judy a lot so I should know.
I gotta go too. Time for Jerry Springer. My cousin Bubba is going to be on today. Yeeearrgh! Murrrrpe!
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:49 PM   #97
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Well, and I probably didn't make myself completely clear on this, it is true that you didn't say it was innovative.  That was Threshold who did.  When his comments were questioned, you could have stated what you just did above and I for one would have been quite satisfied.
I could have, but on the other hand, I don't really feel the need to justify ourselves to the people doing the attacking. Let them blow their hot air. It makes no difference to us except to let more people see our announcement by keeping the thread on the front page longer (and that's the only purpose of this thread, given that it's in the advertising for players section). If they want to do our job for us, fine by me.


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guess I just get sick of seeing so many MUDs on these forums hype themselves up ("great" this and "great" that and you try them out and they're stock code/world/features)
I'm not a big fan of the stock codebases that are generally used, but on the other hand, just because a feature is stock doesn't mean it's not great, even aside from the fact that what is great is subjective. Quality and innovation aren't the same thing, as I seem to be saying a lot lately. They intersect, certainly, but much that is quality isn't innovative and much that is innovative is likely to be judged as pretty bad by most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
But maybe it'd be nice to have a chart with a huge list of various detailed features that can be cross-indexed with a the list of MUDs on TMS.  Hundreds of elements like furniture, crafting, non-armor clothing, non-weapon objects, etc. could be listed so people could get an honest appreciation for what's out there.
You're still comparing apples and oranges there. There's not much point in equating a comprehensive system for furniture creation with a shop that sells a bench, for instance, though they could be be said to be "furniture systems."


Quote:
Originally Posted by
For the record, good for you Matt that you've implemented furniture.  It's a good feature that your pbase will likely enjoy.  I still am surprised it's taken this long though.  Crack the whip, man!
Oh, furniture is super-popular alrighty, but it's hardly essential for our games either. They tend to be focused on PvP and community dynamics. Besides, the list of what "should" be done is so long as to be functionally infinite.  I kid you not when I say Achaea's ship system was first designed in 1997 or so. It still isn't implemented (of course the original design was thrown out long ago). There's just so...much...to...do, and we even have full-time employees working away, bless their hearts.

--matt
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Old 03-24-2005, 06:26 PM   #98
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prof1515: But maybe it'd be nice to have a chart with a huge list of various detailed features that can be cross-indexed with a the list of MUDs on TMS. Hundreds of elements like furniture, crafting, non-armor clothing, non-weapon objects, etc. could be listed so people could get an honest appreciation for what's out there.
You'd have to stick to easily quantified and verified items. For example, our game has a class of objects called "furniture", but I readily admit that we haven't done very much with them. If a checkbox was just marked "Furniture?", probably 95% of all games have chairs and tables somewhere, even if they're largely window dressing. And if they didn't, they could whip up some cheap-ass furniture code in an hour just so they could make their feature list look cooler. And if you make the terms too specific ("Player customizable furniture"), either the list will be unwieldy or you'll exclude quality implementations that don't fit in such a narrow box.

My gut instinct is that the frustration of dealing with people "powergaming" the system (or just lying) would outweigh its benefits and devalue the tool.
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Old 03-24-2005, 09:40 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by (WarHound @ Mar. 24 2005,14:16)
Way to fuel the flames, guys.
Thank you.  Not from me to you, but from me to everyone who keeps flames going.  I love a good flame war.  I was completely enthralled by that webpage about Derek Smart's ongoing flame wars.  I read that for hours.  So, a thank you goes out from me to all of those that enjoy arguing with each other.  Don't change. What webpage about Derek Smart? This webpage.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:04 AM   #100
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Valg @ Mar. 24 2005,18:26)
You'd have to stick to easily quantified and verified items. For example, our game has a class of objects called "furniture", but I readily admit that we haven't done very much with them. If a checkbox was just marked "Furniture?", probably 95% of all games have chairs and tables somewhere, even if they're largely window dressing.
Indeed, furniture is just a simple application of a general objects and materials system. The same rules that (should) apply to economic pricing, availabilty and in-game effects on the materials craftsmen use to create weapons and armor should apply equally well to common household items. There is no world consistency reasons why it shouldn't, although there very well may be game design reasons.

The only difference between a suit of bone armor and a bone couch is the weight, name, description, wear location, amount of protection afforded and maybe the shopkeeper selling it. These things are usually trivial to manipulate through builder utilities, unless the system is so poorly designed that there needs to be a special case for something so trivial.

There is a substantial case for using a general system -- The same affects that apply to enchanted armor can and should apply to enchanted furniture, such as a king's throne that grants bonuses to wisdom while one sits upon it, a cursed bed that has detrimental affects for those who sleep on it, or even a bench at the town square that grants regeneration bonuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ foo)
Yui Unifex, you are acting like a childish, insufferable troll.

Please, go work on something somebody cares about.
And this is precisely why I'd rather be working on a general objects and materials system than simple applications of it. It's so much more interesting than the narrow-minded suggestion you provided. Like I said, we've got different audiences. I'm sorry you don't have the maturity to respect that =). Oh, and your mom says hi.
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