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Old 05-16-2006, 09:52 PM   #1
envision87
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Carrion Fields, currently third in the runnings of best muds. Is it well coded? Versitile classes? Good playerbase? Yes, yes, and a GIGANTIC no. The playerbase of this mud has dropped off dramatically in the past couple years. Wonder why you might be thinking? A few select "vets" are ruining this game for all. Making life quite hard for any n00bs who do decide to try it out. Some seem to purposefully seek out these poor souls and run them into the ground, repeatedly might I add. I do admit that this game DOES top all other muds in my mind but whats the point of playing if your being run into the ground? Sure, yes, crap happens but it seems a little overboard these days. Perhaps this mud can be saved yet but my gut tells me it's doubtful. This is the end of my rant feel free to flame all you want. I'm done trying.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:08 PM   #2
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Meh. Once upon a time there was a new rp mud with an admin that was the biggest ogre in the universe. I played about 3 months and quit. I came back a few years later and the guy had turned pro and had 50+ players on at any give time. I thought to myself, "whoa, this guy must have really changed."

Mmmmm, nope.

The playerbase was just of the type of people that found him cool-to-tolerable is all.

You'd be surprised how far the old saw about one man's trash being another man's treasude really stretches. Hate to hear a game you like seems to be moving off in a direction you can't follow though.

I think as time goes on though you may learn to just grin and bear it more. Anyhow best of luck.
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Old 05-17-2006, 02:37 AM   #3
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Although I can't say I played Carrion Fields for long enough to judge, player bases are a problem with a ton of muds. Take a look at Realms of Despair for a great example of a well made mud with a bunch of really crappy players. This happens with any sufficiently popular game though, and I think you'll find that there are a lot of really cool people in these games too, if you stop focusing on it. It's like a headache - it hurts, but as soon as you can bring yourself to focus on something else you stop noticing it so much.
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:58 AM   #4
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Someone is post-PK ****ed...

This post and its thread seems to have the opposite intent of the forum it is in (advertising for players). Don't bitter player rants belong in the review section?
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:35 AM   #5
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I concur. Please post rants in the reviews section.
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Old 05-17-2006, 02:17 PM   #6
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Yup. Unlike a lot of the other larger games, we let you post reviews. Please take advantage of this-- we've made changes based on (positive and negative) reviews before.

That said, I think both CF and the broader community would benefit more if you talked about specific incidents. If you want to do that in a review, that's fine. If you want to email it to me privately (valguarnera@carrionfields.com), I'm a lot more able to take action if you send me a log, excerpt, or at least a detailed description of the sour moment for you. "A few select vets are ruining the game for us all." doesn't help me, especially if I don't see it that way and don't know who you're talking about. (I've been mostly away for the last 4 days, so if you did report it through some channels, I may have missed it until I catch up.)

Some broader discussion: My experience has been that players go through three stages in terms of PvP:

1) Newbie: You're going to lose a lot of fights. This is normal, and a consequence of combat having a lot to do with player skill, and little to do with luck. We explain this right from the get-go, and our game does take a certain amount of thick skin due to the high challenge level.
2) Intermediate: Win some, lose some. In my opinion, these are the players a newbie must often watch out for the most. They often gloat more, punish the victim more (taking and burning worthless stuff from them, etc.) and generally make a bigger deal out of beating you, since they haven't experienced it much previously. Roleplay-wise, this is the group we have to talk with the most.
3) Veteran: My experience is that if you're going to lose, you want to lose to this guy. He probably has good enough armor and weapons that he doesn't need to take anything from his fallen foe. Unless they thought beating you was a big deal for some reason, it's probably not a big adrenaline situation, and they're less likely to gloat and be irritating. Heck, some will beat you, then leave you with tips if they can tell you're totally lost, because they like having skilled people to fight. Roleplay-wise, they often handle the situation well enough that it can often be fun even though you lost.

Basically, I doubt "vets" were the ones being rough with you. It's most often the players who were just like you a few months ago, but learned from their defeats and persevered. (Our "vets" tend to talk more about who they beat rather than how many fights they won.)

We do pull aside people who are below our roleplay standard (likely every day we talk to someone about the rules), but we obviously can't watch everyone all the time, since players outnumber staff. Reporting an unpleasant situation promptly to the staff (*) is the best way to bring out justice and/or change. Venting can be helpful to you personally, but probably isn't useful reading for most of the other people here.

(*): Usual disclaimer: If you don't like a staff member's decision, report it to an administrator. If the problem is with an administrator, report it to the other administrators. If you don't like all 8 administrators, we're probably not the game for you.
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Old 05-17-2006, 06:42 PM   #7
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Another key thing to remember is the positives.

Does CF have a strong, active, administration? YES

Does CF have a creative and unique world? YES

Does CF have strong races, classes, options? YES

Does CF have a strong, solid playerbase? YES

Does having one or two douchebags change this? NO

Does reporting the one or two douchebags change this if the administration is strong and active (echoing what Valg said)? YES

Every MUD will have its players who believe this is FFVII or Neverwinter Nights or Quake or some other quest RPG or shooter and not the dynamic RP environment that it is. A certain percentage of players will think there is a way to "win" at MUDding, most often by hackandslashing new notches in their belts. True, you can measure you personal successes a number of ways, but "winning" at MUDding is like trying to "win" at life itself. Last I checked, everyone loses to death in the end. MUDding is about projecting or portraying an alter ego...living another life essentially.

My advice is similar to what's already been stated. Post reviews, make the admin's aware, but don't start trash on a forum designed for new players to find a new home.

Shout outs to AR and CF from FL. Props to you guys for helping keep truly free MUDding alive and well.
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:21 PM   #8
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That pretty ****ing rude, to just up and call someone a 'douchebag' as simple as that.

He probably could have done something more constructive, but as of posting neither you nor Valg (yet) had any idea what he'd gone through. If he was that one in a hundred that had a -real- problem, you've only just irritated it further, and Valg may have lost a good (if loudly spoken) player.

His statement was ambiguous, he didn't trash anything aside from some unnamed players (and pretty lightly at that, if you've seen some of the 'ex-player' flames), and he seems to like the mud as much as you do.

Valg put it just fine himself, without the little cronie popping up and calling someone a douchebag.
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Lark @ May 18 2006,09:21)
That pretty f'ing rude, to just up and call someone a 'douchebag' as simple as that.

He probably could have done something more constructive, but as of posting neither you nor Valg (yet) had any idea what he'd gone through. If he was that one in a hundred that had a -real- problem, you've only just irritated it further, and Valg may have lost a good (if loudly spoken) player.

His statement was ambiguous, he didn't trash anything aside from some unnamed players (and pretty lightly at that, if you've seen some of the 'ex-player' flames), and he seems to like the mud as much as you do.

Valg put it just fine himself, without the little cronie popping up and calling someone a douchebag.
Umm... he said those that were griefing and making it hard for the topic poster were douchebags....
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Lark @ May 17 2006,20:21)
That pretty ****ing rude, to just up and call someone a 'douchebag' as simple as that.

He probably could have done something more constructive, but as of posting neither you nor Valg (yet) had any idea what he'd gone through. If he was that one in a hundred that had a -real- problem, you've only just irritated it further, and Valg may have lost a good (if loudly spoken) player.

His statement was ambiguous, he didn't trash anything aside from some unnamed players (and pretty lightly at that, if you've seen some of the 'ex-player' flames), and he seems to like the mud as much as you do.

Valg put it just fine himself, without the little cronie popping up and calling someone a douchebag.
Step 1: Actually read the post in question. The whole thing, no skimming.

Step 2: Remove foot from mouth.
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:11 PM   #11
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BURNED!
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:48 PM   #12
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Thanks for the backup, Baram and Disciple.

Yes, Lark, I was calling the people alleged by the original poster, envision87, to be "ruining" Carrion Fields the douchebags, not envision87 himself.

I have no doubt he legitimately has experienced some "trashy" play, for lack of a better term.  Whether it's the same people or veterans, only the staff at CF can say.  My only point of contention with the original poster was that posting here does nothing to help resolve the situation nor is that the type of post this particular section of the TMS forums is for.  

Lastly, I am no one's "cronie".  I know of CF by reputation and word of mouth, not affiliation, as I am head of staff at another MUD of similar genre and origin.  I give CF and AR props because they've earned them.  Just wanted to clear that up.  Not every post of praise for an IMP of a MUD is a suck up post.
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:35 AM   #13
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One thing that comes to mind from this thread...

Every game out there will have someone complain about:

1) Some of its players
2) Some of its staff
3) The fact that the game isn't 100% the way they would have built a game.

As well, every game out there will have people praise:

1) Its players
2) Its staff
3) How they can't ever leave because they're addicted.
4) How it's just The Best Game Ever.

I don't find any of these comments, pros or con, useful. Everyone says them about every game to the point that they have absolutely no meaning.

For example, a review that just says "I love this game! I quit five times but I always come back because you just can't stay away!" hasn't told me anything useful. Of COURSE they came back to a game they're used to, everyone tends to do that until they get driven away for good one way or another.

Of COURSE someone complained about Carrion Fields's players. There's always someone who doesn't get along with someone in an RPG, and always someone who feels the other someone was messing up the game because they didn't do things right one way or another.

So what. It's barely worth noting.

---Brett
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Old 05-18-2006, 08:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (BrettH @ May 18 2006,01:35)
I don't find any of these comments, pros or con, useful. Everyone says them about every game to the point that they have absolutely no meaning.
I've said it in other threads, but it's not useful to post "I do not find this thread useful!" in random threads that you find useful. I find lots of threads not useful, but I somehow resist the urge to post about it in each one. Vote with your feet and move on, and if the thread isn't interesting to people it will fade away on its own.
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Vote with your feet and move on, and if the thread isn't interesting to people it will fade away on its own.
Heh! It's really interesting how differently some posts can be perceived from their intent.

I did not post to say "Ho hum, I'm bored", but to say "I hope nobody takes these attacks on games seriously." I know that I've never played Carrion Fields but this guy's gripe will in no way influence my opinion of it toward the negative.

It could have something to do with posting late at night when I should have been sleeping.

---Brett
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:51 PM   #16
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Red face

Ack...sorry for the mix-up.

Uh...

Yeah, so, sorry. Sorry.
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:00 PM   #17
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And if anyone...happens to...say...uh...something like what I thought...then...that post...but to them!

Yeah!  

( , )
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:45 PM   #18
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Absolutely no problem, Lark, and no need to apologize.

Like Fonzie....we're cool.
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