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Old 02-16-2006, 07:22 PM   #1
noidkid
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I haven't MUD in a very long time. I was curious to see what various forms of combat-systems are around.

In particular I was wondering if there are MUDS that use a turn-based combat system. Somewhat like your standard table-top RPG. I'm guessing it's not too popular because it would make PVP akward?

Ideally i'm also interested in a MUD with a complex character/skill development to reinforce the strategic combat. I also enjoy a very strong RP environment.

Any recommendations?

ps: are there any threads / faqs regarding different combat-systems in MUDS?

thanks guys!!
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Old 02-16-2006, 09:18 PM   #2
Angie
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You can give God Wars II a try. It fulfills about half of your requirements, and you haven't specified that you'd be looking for everything in your post at once.

-- Original combat system. Not turn based, but not automated either. If you are interested in combat systems, definitely worth checking out. Strongly focuses on player skill.

-- Character development is very focused on strategy. There are four classes, but hundreds possible builds, using a combination of talents (think feats or perks) and class powers. You have to distribute your talents and powers carefully, it is not possible to max everything, but you can change your build as often as you want.

-- While it is not really combat, we have just today introduced a new, turn-based war minigame, where you can battle other players' armies.

The mud is not RP at all, it is built around PK, strategy and goal oriented play.

telnet: godwars2.com 3000
web site: www.godwars2.com
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Old 02-16-2006, 09:35 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by
Ideally i'm also interested in a MUD with a complex character/skill development to reinforce the strategic combat. I also enjoy a very strong RP environment.

Unfortunately it's been my experience that the best combat muds do not support RP at all, not that combat and RP are mutually exclusive, but perhaps muds that focus on one tend not to focus on the other. Try checking out "Legends of Karinth', I've never played there but when I looked at it it seemed to have a good combination of combat and RP.

Now if you want combat, I second Angie, the best combat mud IMO right now is Godwars II, yes, somewhat the obvious choice, maybe there are others. Detailed character development and combat like this:


The centaur thrusts at you with the end of his spear.
You block his thrust with your tower shield.
You shoot a bolt of energy at the centaur, scorching his face.
You feel a surge of energy run through your right arm.
You snap your fingers with your right hand.
The centaur thrusts at you with the end of his spear.
You block his thrust with your tower shield.
You feel a surge of energy run through your right arm.
You close your right hand into a fist.
The centaur's heart erupts from his chest and flies to your hand!
The centaur's body goes limp.
The dead centaur crashes to the ground.
You strike at the air with your torn-out heart.
You take a bite out of a torn-out heart and start chewing.


Also I should add that combat uses a RT action-point based system, so you get some of the effects of turn-based games.

Btw I've looked for threads about different combat systems and never had much real success, let me know if you find something.
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Old 02-17-2006, 09:40 AM   #4
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I'm not aware of any MUDs that use a turn-based system... the very style seems to lend itself to real-time.  I might even go so far as to say that real-time-combat is one of the defining characteristics of a MUD.

Now that that's out of the way, I think you would be hard pressed to find a better mix of roleplay and PK then Carrion Fields offers.  Roleplaying is completely mandatory at all times.  The only OOC channel in the whole game is our newbie help channel for those below level 15 with technical gameplay questions.  Mixed in with all of this, however, is a very detailed, immersive PK system.  There is no "opting" in or out of PK here - once you pass level 10 you're PKable.  We do restrict the range of people that can fight you by the ammount of experience your character (and their character) has, which usually equals an 8 to 10 level swing up or down in the ranks.  It's not a wanton blood fest, however, because everyone is required to roleplay, and needs to have a reason to kill you. Good-aligned characters do tend to be more trustworthy with those things though, so if you're learning the ropes that might be the way to start.

There are a huge variety of skills and tactics that can be applied, with every type of character having a chance against every other in the hands of equally-skilled players.  Take just our warrior class as an example.  You're all in the same guild, but you can pick from two of 8 different weapon specilizations (one at level 20 and one at level 40) that come with a wide array of completely different skills, along with taking two of 36 legacies later in life that further customize your character.  The end result being, at hero (level 51), any two warriors will be *completely* different characters with vastly different fighting styles and techniques.

At CF, you're going to roleplay.  You're also going to die.  And with a bit of practice, you're going to kill too.  Playing CF is not at all for the faint of heart.
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Old 02-18-2006, 11:26 AM   #5
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I don't know if I could consider GodWars to have the best combat system around since from your description it sounds identical to what I played on Simutronics seven years ago.

I knew of a MUD in development that had implemented turn-based combat, but the development on it came grinding to a halt. Unfortunately, I've not heard of anything else before or since.

The Eternal City (http://www.skotos.net/games/eternal-city/) has a system more detailed than GodWars' is presented here as. TEC's system is classless, allowing a character to not only choose his specialization (or lack thereof) in skill sets, but also in the skills themselves. This means that two characters starting with the exact same skill set can end up as very different types of fighters depending on what they focus on.

The combat system itself is exceptionally detailed, taking into account numerous variables, meaning that fights are never completely certain no matter what the skill difference between the two characters are. Some of the variables the system has include ambient lighting, position in the room, wounds, fatigue, wind (the game has a detailed weather system which generates wind), slope (the entire map is described topographically), openings left based on previous attacks, and a lot of other things. The combat system's inner workings are not public knowledge so there are many other things that affect it hiddenly, meaning that even math-brained veterans don't understand it fully and don't have a great advantage.

The game itself is RP-mandatory, and the setting is Roman-themed with a small fantasy element.

The only disadvantage the game has is its monthly fee, $13 after the first month. However, this fee ensures the game is probably the most stable mud in existence, almost completely lag-free and without mechanical failure. As I said, you get the first month free to test out the game.

The game's address is http://www.skotos.net/games/eternal-city/. If you do decide to try it out, you can generally ask for help in the welcome area before you enter the game itself, or you can ask in game for an Auxilii, the game's version of mentors: old players who help new players. I am one, and under the account name Marnevel, which you can ask for help any time or even put down as your referrer if you want. I hope to see you there!
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Old 02-18-2006, 02:06 PM   #6
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The Eternal City (http://www.skotos.net/games/eternal-city/) has a system more detailed than GodWars' is presented here as.
From your description EC's system sounds very cool. However the thrust of your statement is correct, I didn't represent the full detail of combat in Godwars, where:

o Each player their 4 separate combat tables from which the player chooses techniques in combat, right hand, left hand, head and feet, and these tables change based on your weapon, use of magic, encumbrance, and specific talents (based on class and actual feat-like talents). So for example in the combat I described I was typing something like 'rs;rw;rf;rf;rf;ld', which stands for 'right snap', 'right wiggle', 'right fist', etc., the motions of my character's hands and fingers. These individual actions initiate their own attacks and defenses and in combination actuate more complex moves.

o Movement is also position based, in fact the whole game world is coordinate-based, so you can jump over your opponent, ride in circles around your target while shooting arrows or fireballs, etc.

o Because combat is truly handed your opponent can do things like slice off your hand and beat you with it.

o One of the coolest things about God Wars IMO is that not only are characters quite customizable, you can retroactively rebuild much of your character's abilities at any time, dropping talents and powers and choosing new ones depending on what tactics you wish to employ. I realize this is not something you want to do in a RP game like Eternal City, but for God Wars it's an excellent feature.


Anyway, I haven't ever tried a p2p mud, but thanks for your description of EC, I might try it out.
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Old 02-18-2006, 03:04 PM   #7
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I don't know if I could consider GodWars to have the best combat system around since from your description it sounds identical to what I played on Simutronics seven years ago.
Well 'best' is a matter of opinion, but the God Wars II combat system is nothing like the Simutronics muds.  The Simutronics combat system, as far as I'm aware, uses a "balance" system whereby each player has a selection of combat moves available.  Performing an attack then results in a delay for a number of seconds, after which time the player can perform another attack.  The same approach is also used by a number of other commercial muds, including (as far as I can tell) The Eternal City.

However in God Wars II you don't simply perform a combat technique - instead, each technique is the result of a specific sequence of commands, depending on your fighting style, skills, talents, powers and weapon (or combination of weapons).  Thus a character fighting in Viper style with paired shortswords will have very different options available than someone using a shortsword and shield in the Crane fighting style.  In total there are over six and a half thousand possible fighting techniques, each with their own modifiers and affects.  Each weapon has its own set of commands and fighting techniques, and even these vary depending on other factors.

Thus you cannot simply kill your opponent with a powerful attack, then wait to recover your balance - you have to build up to the technique, during which time your opponent can prepare an appropriate defence.

Another important point of note is that each character has four separate combat locations (left hand, right hand, head and feet), each of which is completely independent - thus you could perform defence techniques with one hand while attacking with the other, or using both hands to attack, or to defend.  You'll see some builds where the player uses both hands to defend (perhaps with shields) while using their head to attack with bites or mindblasts.  Some players will use their feet to perform jumping kicks or pouncing attacks, while others will drop into defensive stances or retreat from their opponents.  In Ide's example you can see that he was using one hand to defend with a shield while spellcasting with the other.

Although the four combat locations are independent, there is still some crossover - a 'clap' while spellcasting requires both hands, for obvious reasons.  Equally many specialised fighting techniques benefit from certain weapon combinations, and performing certain techniques with one hand will also adjust the other (for example the unarmed 'defence', 'fist', 'strike' combo will result in the character performing a jab with their main hand, then a hook with the other, and finally an uppercut with their main hand again - equally one of the quarterstaff techniques requires you to use one hand to assist, the other to perform a thrust which lifts your feet off the ground and performs a double-kick technique).  Some techniques will actually combine both weapons into a single attack (eg a single whirling attack using both katana and wakizashi).

The separate locations become particularly important when it comes to defences, as each location defends separately, and has its own cooldown timer indicating how long before it can defend again.  A player using a sword and shield will likely be using the latter as their primary defence, but a feint could knock the shield down and force the player to rely on dodges (feet defence) or parries for the next 2 or 3 seconds.  Thus paired weapons can provide highly effective in such a situation.

However each attack and defence also has its own 'strength', indicating which defences can counter which attacks.  The person with paired weapons may have an offense advantage, but they'd be unable to block an arrow or shield-bash, and would need to use a combined defence to parry a double attack. The person using a two-handed weapon would likely have to rely on specialised fighting talents in order to block a double attack, although they would make up for that with other bonuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
TEC's system is classless, allowing a character to not only choose his specialization (or lack thereof) in skill sets, but also in the skills themselves.  This means that two characters starting with the exact same skill set can end up as very different types of fighters depending on what they focus on.
The same is true of God Wars II as well - it's only the supernatural powers that are divided among specific classes (the classes are supernatural archtypes, not professions; it makes no sense for a werewolf to be able to transform into mist, for example, or for a vampire to grow a giant scorpion tail).
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