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Old 04-07-2006, 05:36 PM   #1
Anitra
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Since the thread about non-donation Muds was closed down for reasons not quite clear to some of us, I am opening a new one on the same topic.

Not all of the ones on the list below are in the top ten, but most of them have been up for years, they are stable and balanced, they are just as good as the commercial ones, and they offer a definite alternative for players, who don't think that real life money should have any impact on the gameplay.

The really free Muds need all the exposure they can get, since they don't have the funds to pay for banners and advertisements. The best of them are run by skilled and dedicated people, who donate their own time freely, with no other reward than the joy of creation. The general spirit among truly FREE muds is to share, and the development of muds is largely due to skilled coders generously sharing their code with the community.

So here is the list again, as it was going, when the thread was closed. Feel free to add more to the list. And please stay on topic, this thread should stay open.

The object of this list is to put the spotlight of the high quality FREE muds that exist.

Medieval Times
Carrion Fields
Shattered Kingdoms
Armageddon
Sloth mud
Abandoned Realms
Discworld
4 Dimensions
Realms of Despair
Harshlands
Shadows of Isildur
Aabahran

(Post edited April 14th 2006, to stop the constant derailment of the_logos and followers)
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:46 PM   #2
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Moved here, to Advertising for Players.

--matt
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:51 PM   #3
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Just writing another post, hoping that the moved thread will show up properly on Recent Discussions.

--matt
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:56 PM   #4
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I don't quite understand why it was necessary to move this thread. The other one was posted on the Tavern, and the topic of common interest.

It's not equal to posting an advertisement for a single mud.
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Anitra @ April 07 2006,18:56)
I don't quite understand why it was necessary to move this thread. The other one was posted on the Tavern, and the topic of common interest.

It's not equal to posting an advertisement for a single mud.
The other thread was someone asking a question about which MUDs don't sell things - information gathering. This one is a thread promoting MUDs that don't sell things - advertising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
They are run by dedicated people, who pay for the hardware and server out of their own pocket
Just a point: At least one of the organizations running a MUD on your list sells things to players to pay for hardware.
--matt
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Old 04-07-2006, 06:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Anitra @ April 07 2006,18:56)
It's not equal to posting an advertisement for a single mud.
The only difference I see is you mentioned more than one mud, but you are still basically advertisting for them. There are probably hundreds of muds that aren't pay for perks, yet you only mentioned a mere fraction of them.

I don't have a clue why the original thread was closed down as I stopped reading it days ago as I tend to do once topics reach more than 2 pages worth of posts.
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Old 04-07-2006, 06:13 PM   #7
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Curiously, "It's the weeeeekend! Triple exp at wotmud.org" was not moved, but this more general post was. I'd direct you to the "Matt as a Moderator" thread, but it was locked.

As for our inclusion on the list: We don't sell anything that impacts gameplay in the slightest, though we to sell non-game stuff like T-shirts and whatnot to help pay for the costs of operation, if anyone cares. We don't pay salaries or otherwise "keep" that money, however-- it all goes back into the game.
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Old 04-07-2006, 07:18 PM   #8
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I guess Matt didn't learn from the closed thread on him (probably not a great thing to have the moderator in question close a thread about themselves).

You really should be more cautious Matt, and thank you Anitra for opening up this subject of conversation again.
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Old 04-07-2006, 07:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ April 07 2006,18:59)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
They are run by dedicated people, who pay for the hardware and server out of their own pocket
Just a point: At least one of the organizations running a MUD on your list sells things to players to pay for hardware.
--matt
Which doesn't make them anything but free since it's not only voluntary but has no impact on the game itself. It's the same as if they set up a lemonaide stand in their driveway and sold lemonaide to pay for their hardware costs.

Don't derail this thread too like the last one with poor arguments.

Take care,

Jason
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Old 04-07-2006, 11:23 PM   #10
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...

I'm pretty sure Xyllomer doesn't sell any in-game content, though you can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not an all that avid player.
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Old 04-08-2006, 02:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
They are run by dedicated people, who pay for the hardware and server out of their own pocket, and who donate their own time freely, with no other reward than the joy of creation.
That's the statement that Matt was reacting to, I'm fairly certain. Carrion Fields gathers donations, hence doesn't pay out their own pocket. Nothing insulting about that, so I think you can put the hatchets down.
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Old 04-08-2006, 07:32 AM   #12
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There's another mud which belongs on that list of fantastic free muds, my old stomping ground, mume- multi users in middle earth. In fact, there are 100s of great totally free muds where you can't buy your way into perks.

It's difficult to say which is "better" as that's not exactly an objective question. pay4perk muds do have the advantage of being able to afford professional programmers ie get things done, which is certainly an area that I think a lot of the non pay4perk muds have problems with.
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Old 04-08-2006, 07:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (nass @ April 08 2006,21:32)
It's difficult to say which is "better" as that's not exactly an objective question. pay4perk muds do have the advantage of being able to afford professional programmers ie get things done, which is certainly an area that I think a lot of the non pay4perk muds have problems with.
Thats true to a point, but not fully. You would still want to have coders that are experienced in your types of games. Then there's the whole thing where many "real" programmers don't think of a mud as a "real" job.
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Old 04-08-2006, 09:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (nass @ April 08 2006,08:32)
pay4perk muds do have the advantage of being able to afford professional programmers ie get things done, which is certainly an area that I think a lot of the non pay4perk muds have problems with.
That's not necessarily true in either direction. Fpr example, all of our coders except one (me! have a day job as programmers. (I have a technical job where I write code occasionally, but it's not my main focus.)

Also, business-MUDs sometimes hire people who know MUDs and can write code, but don't have degrees or other certificates that make them "professional" programmers. Why? Cheaper. Degrees cost money.
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Old 04-08-2006, 11:15 AM   #15
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If you are a fan of complex, kickass group PvP combat, there is a great 100% Free MUD called Everwar. It's a fun, intense MUD - and it has recently opened its second version.

www.everwar.net

Check it out. My pick for the MUD to beat for great group PvP.




Other good 100% Free PvP combat MUDs;


Godwars II [very original, very fun solo PvP]
www.godwarsii.com

Clandestine [very balanced, fun, medium-to-large playerbase, unique, and intense for both solo and group PvP]
www.clandestinemud.com



--- and if you enjoy very complex worlds with small/medium sized playerbases, I suggest the following lesser known 100% Free MUDs;


Awakened Worlds [Shadowrun MUD, small-to-medium playerbase, very complex world/gameplay/character customization]
www.awakenedworlds.net


4 Dimensions MUD [A very unique/complex game, with a good staff]
www.4dimensions.org
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Old 04-08-2006, 12:06 PM   #16
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Wouldn't it be a lot easier to create a list of MUDs that are pay-for-perks, considering there are so fewer of those than totally free ones?
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Old 04-08-2006, 01:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ April 07 2006,20:47)
Which doesn't make them anything but free since it's not only voluntary but has no impact on the game itself.  It's the same as if they set up a lemonaide stand in their driveway and sold lemonaide to pay for their hardware costs.

Don't derail this thread too like the last one with poor arguments.
Gosh, I'm sorry if a factual correction to a factual assertion by the thread poster is considered "off topic" by you. I'm not sure where you derive an 'argument' from there. It's simply a minor correction.

--matt
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Old 04-08-2006, 02:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ April 08 2006,14:49)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ April 07 2006,20:47)
Which doesn't make them anything but free since it's not only voluntary but has no impact on the game itself.  It's the same as if they set up a lemonaide stand in their driveway and sold lemonaide to pay for their hardware costs.

Don't derail this thread too like the last one with poor arguments.
Gosh, I'm sorry if a factual correction to a factual assertion by the thread poster is considered "off topic" by you. I'm not sure where you derive an 'argument' from there. It's simply a minor correction.

--matt
An irrelevant, hence off-topic, correction since how they get their money to pay for hardware is the same as the other MUDs on that list, ie not from charging in any way for perks in-game.

Jason
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Old 04-08-2006, 02:05 PM   #19
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0-->
Quote:
Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ April 08 2006,15[img
http://www.topmudsites.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]0)]An irrelevant, hence off-topic, correction since how they get their money to pay for hardware is the same as the other MUDs on that list, ie not from charging in any way for perks in-game.

Jason
I'm sorry, but any factual correction to the first post is not off-topic. It was asserted that the owners of the listed MUDs pay for the server costs out of their pocket, and this is untrue in the case of one of the MUDS, so I corrected it. In no way is a correction to a factual assertion in the original post of a thread off-topic. The person who starts the thread decides what the topic of the thread is by the initial post. If it was brought up in the initial post, it's on-topic by definition. This is a silly argument and I'm not going to continue it.

--matt
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Old 04-08-2006, 02:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ April 08 2006,15:05)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ April 08 2006,15)
An irrelevant, hence off-topic, correction since how they get their money to pay for hardware is the same as the other MUDs on that list, ie not from charging in any way for perks in-game.

Jason
I'm sorry, but any factual correction to the first post is not off-topic. It was asserted that the owners of the listed MUDs pay for the server costs out of their pocket, and this is untrue in the case of one of the MUDS, so I corrected it. In no way is a correction to a factual assertion in the original post of a thread off-topic. The person who starts the thread decides what the topic of the thread is by the initial post. If it was brought up in the initial post, it's on-topic by definition. This is a silly argument and I'm not going to continue it.

--matt
They do pay out of pocket. Selling t-shirts or mugs is the same as selling cookies door-to-door. It's not related to charging for perks in the game. The money goes to the people running the website who are the same people running the game but it's not related to the game itself. The aforementioned t-shirts or mugs could bear the logo of the game on them but that still doesn't make them perks since no matter how many t-shirts you buy, you have no advantage over a player who doesn't have one. And since sales of t-shirts and mugs are probably not high enough to maintain the cost of running the game (after all, how many t-shirts and mugs does one really need or want for that matter?), the owners of the game in question may very well pay hardware expenses out of their pocket with the occassional alleviation of some of the cost from the sale of something off their website.

Jason
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