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Old 01-18-2005, 09:00 PM   #21
Azhon
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Erm, what happened to Matt's concerns about SoT's IP?

http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin....shadows

It is a big big thread and I'm not sure what happened. What happened? It's odd that after posting something like that he hires its creator.
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Old 01-18-2005, 09:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Jan. 18 2005,12:59)
If by sell out
Gah. You really need to stop responding to every bit of flame-bait that comes your way. That's why all your threads degenerate into flames. While it does keep your threads active which helps keep your games in people's minds, you really should think about the quality of the "advertising."

Just something to think about.

Oh, and congrats Traithe I hope you get everything you wanted out of your new role. I hope the stigma that surrounds IR for some doesn't make you regret your decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Jan. 18 2005,16:36)
Roleplaying required games are, with all due respect to those who enjoy them, not popular enough.
That's true. With true roleplaying games (as opposed to console RPGs) being a niche market that makes sense. Muds are a niche market as it is. To get as much money as possible (or even to just make any profit after paying your employees and expanses, not even including saving money for times when you'll be paying employees for working on games that won't get any income for 12 months) you can't limit yourself even further.
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Old 01-18-2005, 09:29 PM   #23
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I'm not sure why anyone would think that a producer of an Iron Realms game is focused on trying to "work money out of people" (whatever that means). Rather, being one of the evil overlords of IRE, I can say my first and foremost focus is to design a game that players enjoy, which brings me immense personal satisfaction. Certainly, if this were a hobby, I couldn't devote the time into the game as I do otherwise.

Anyway, welcome to the team, Traithe! If you enjoy your job half as much as I enjoy mine, you'll be living on Cloud 9!
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Old 01-18-2005, 09:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by
Gah. You really need to stop responding to every bit of flame-bait that comes your way. That's why all your threads degenerate into flames. While it does keep your threads active which helps keep your games in people's minds, you really should think about the quality of the "advertising."
Shrug, they degenerate into flames because people start flaming me. That's their issue to deal with. I also appreciate the advice on marketing, but I'm confident in our ability to market effectively within the text MUD market. I think our results bear out that confidence.

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I hope the stigma that surrounds IR for some doesn't make you regret your decision.
Heh heh. I know I cry tears of shame that some raving loonies object to whatever they object to. That kind of opinion would only matter if it was held by people with any kind of influence. IRE enjoys a good reputation with people we have to give a hoot about, like our customers or the people whose livelihoods depend on us or the larger games industry, or the media. A few bitter forum posters are irrelevant in the larger scope, though they are fun to play with sometimes.

--matt
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Azhon @ Jan. 19 2005,03:00)
Erm, what happened to Matt's concerns about SoT's IP?

http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin....shadows

It is a big big thread and I'm not sure what happened. What happened? It's odd that after posting something like that he hires its creator.
The issues have been resolved between SoI and Tolkien Enterprises earlier this year. I'm sure you can find the posts about it somewhere around here.
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenred,Jan. 18 2005,18[img
http://www.topmudsites.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]2]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Iron Realms Entertainment, from the information available on their site, and from general implications from their actions as a company thus far have not been to create products that people enjoy.
Oh my god, you're right! Nobody enjoys our games! *panic* Clearly we've invented a new business model where we have to pay people to play. Seems we're paying about 800 people to play right now. Or perhaps you believe we've invented mind control. Yes! That's it! Mind control.

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and to churn out many to cover many genres
Wow, you're a genius! Let's see, Achaea is fantasy. Aetolia is fantasy. Imperian is fantasy. Lusternia is fantasy. Hmm, I must be stupid. I guess I'm missing the other genres.  Oh, incidentally, the game Traithe was hired for? Also fantasy.

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Originally Posted by
Iron Realms creates products where the advancement of your character is tied to how much of your real money you put into it.
Wow! Again, pure brilliance. Although I guess I have to wonder at your logic, given that it's not possible to buy advancement in our games, and that many players never spend a dime. Likely your mind is just too subtle for me though.

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Money is not everything, I'm afraid. I'd much rather do something I enjoy, for free then, as I said, 'sell out', and make it my perogative to work money out of people.
Man, you're on a roll. I can only marvel at the sheer magnitude of your intellect. Taking a job doing something you don't love to do is definitely the way to a happy life. Good thinking!

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You entire 'business model approach' to gaming and game-design is really divisive to  what has always been a for the players, by the players type of community. All the original code-bases were designed with free-use as a paramount objective in the long-run.
And? All the original MUDs started commercial or went commercial. The MUDs that entertain the most people have -always- been commercial. Do you see me whining that the free codebases have 'betrayed' the original spirit of MUDs? Of course not, because that would be a ridiculous thing to complain about. It's called 'diversity' and it's a good thing.

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[If I love killing people, and made a living doing it, someone would object likely.
I'd object whether you did it as a hobby or for a living.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
And I'm saddened that people would abandon their hobbies for corporate pittance.
Yeah, man, I'm always so saddened when any of my writer friends manage to get something published for money. SO sad. I always think, "You poor sell-outs, how dare you try to make a living doing something you love." You really are a genius.


--matt
P.S. Just to make sure you get it, I was being sarcastic in much of this post. Traithe said it nice and bluntly though: Ignorant and childish.
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Old 01-19-2005, 05:02 AM   #27
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I've said my piece and stand by it.
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Old 01-19-2005, 05:16 AM   #28
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I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again here:

Congratulations, Traithe.

You're very lucky to be able to do what you love for a living, and IRE has gained themselves an extremely talented dynamo.
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Old 01-19-2005, 05:26 AM   #29
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Congratulations Traithe and Matt!

Best of luck to you and the exciting new game.
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:49 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Jan. 18 2005,20:48)
I also appreciate the advice on marketing, but I'm confident in our ability to market effectively within the text MUD market. I think our results bear out that confidence.
Yeah I couldn't think of a way to say I doubt the flames help advertising without sounding all pompous and cocky Although I do question the amount of traffic you get because people read the flames and think "I'm gunna check out this game" and then proceed to give the mud money. Heck, I also question how many people visit your game and give you money because of it being in the recent discussions on the main page

And if that isn't reason enough, perhaps trying to help make this forum a better place is a good reason to stop responding to every bit of flame-bait (just halve the amount of flame-bait you respond to and it would be an improvement ). No, not saying it's your fault. But you do help encourage it. I also like coming to this forum despite the flames. There are a few nuggets of gold here, occassionally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Angie @ Jan. 18 2005,21:12)
The issues have been resolved between SoI and Tolkien Enterprises earlier this year. I'm sure you can find the posts about it somewhere around here.
Really? Wow. Congratulations. I'm amazed you were able to contact somebody and get them to give you permission (Although I doubt they ever cared, I'm just amazed you managed to get permission instead of being ignored).
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:57 PM   #31
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It's a real loss to the RPI world.

The RPI niche needs more people like Traithe, it's sad to lose one to the H&S world, probably part of the reason that RPI's are such a small niche...not enough people who are driven to build and work on them compared to the ones who play them


I agree with the sell out sentiment.
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Old 01-19-2005, 02:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Dunestalker @ Jan. 19 2005,12:57)
It's a real loss to the RPI world.

The RPI niche needs more people like Traithe, it's sad to lose one to the H&S world, probably part of the reason that RPI's are such a small niche...not enough people who are driven to build and work on them compared to the ones who play them


I agree with the sell out sentiment.
What? Has Traithe also been hired by someone who makes H&S muds? Busy guy, that Traithe.

--matt
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Old 01-19-2005, 02:50 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (John @ Jan. 19 2005,10:49)
Really? Wow. Congratulations. I'm amazed you were able to contact somebody and get them to give you permission (Although I doubt they ever cared, I'm just amazed you managed to get permission instead of being ignored).
To clarify (this was posted publicly so I'm not spilling any secrets here): Tolkien Enterprises ordered SoI to shut down, but Chad was able to convince them to let SoI continue to operate under certain conditions, etc.

Other Tolkien MUDs may want to take note as few admins would be able to pull off what Chad did.

--matt
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Old 01-19-2005, 03:11 PM   #34
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Personally, I'm jealous.

Anyone that can make money doing something they love is one step ahead of most people. And for many, turning a hobby into a money making job is a dream come true. While most use hobbies as a way of escaping the dreariness of their full-time jobs (or whatever it is they do), I think merging the two - your hobby and money making - is genius.

Making money off MUDs is no easy feat, and if someone can do that more power to them. People make money of all kinds of things. And there's many worse ways of making money - people benefit from wars or tsunamis and they do so eagerly and willingly. Iron Realms makes money off games, it's really neither a big deal or a bad thing.

If someone is willing to pay to play a MUD, so be it. People pay for all sorts of things, some of which I think are worthwhile, some of which I don't think are worthwhile. But it's their choice. A service or product exists, and each person gets to choose whether they wish to purchase said service or product or not. That's the beauty of our system of choice.

Traithe, I don't know you whatsoever, and I've never played SoI, and the_logos, I don't know you either, and I've never played any of your games - but congratz to both of you for turning a hobby you clearly love dearly into a business.

If I had the time, means and assorted other requirements to make a successful pay-to-play MUD (one based on a style and design that I'd want), I'd be on it like peanut butter sticks to the roof of your mouth. So I'm jealous, and truthfully, I think a lot of others are as well.

Bottomline, good luck to you Traithe. Go forth and earn some money - eventually most of us have to (or we're stuck already doing it, depending on how you look at it). *smile*

Pleos
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Old 01-19-2005, 03:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Pleos @ Jan. 19 2005,14:11)
I'd be on it like peanut butter sticks to the roof of your mouth.
I'm sure that's true, unless, of course, you discovered you suffer from the phobia of Arachibutyrophobia, or, literally "Fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of your mouth."

Here's some info on this debilitating mental illness: http://www.changethatsrightnow.com/p...?SDID=301:1381

I couldn't believe these guys were for real, but I phoned them and, if it's a joke, it's an elaborate one complete with automated phone menus and eventually live operators.
--matt
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Old 01-19-2005, 08:26 PM   #36
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I'm sure that's true, unless, of course, you discovered you suffer from the phobia of Arachibutyrophobia, or, literally "Fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of your mouth."
That website is absolutely hilarious. I snickered. I tried to stop giggling. I laughed. I fell from my chair laughing.

Of course, it's hard for those it hits - consider never being able to eat a peanut butter sandwich without experiencing panic attacks *gasp, the horror*

The page is obviously a template, used for a multitude of different phobias, simply substituting the latin and common name from page to page. After all, I find it hard to believe that Arachibutyrophobia "...keep people apart from loved ones and business associates.", and I highly doubt that "...a variety of potent drugs often are prescribed for arachibutyrophobia". Especially the "often" part.
Those statements fit agoraphobia and fear of flying very nicely, though.

Also, though a bit late - grats to you, Traithe. Such opportunities aren't easy to come by.
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Old 01-19-2005, 08:47 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by (welcor @ Jan. 19 2005,19:26)
After all, I find it hard to believe that Arachibutyrophobia "...keep people apart from loved ones and business associates.", and I highly doubt that "...a variety of potent drugs often are prescribed for arachibutyrophobia".
Your callous disregard for those afflicted with this terrible malady really disappoints me, Welcor. How would you feel if you were at a business lunch with your boss and he insisted on ordering for you...and ordered a peanut butter sandwich. Not even any jelly to lubricate things up a bit. Just peanut butter and bread. Ponder that a moment. And when you're done wetting yourself in fear, maybe you'll feel a little more sympathy for those who have to suffer through their entire lives living in fear of situations like that. It's bad enough as it is without you mocking their pain.

--matt, sympathetically, for he enjoys peanut butter quite a lot.

P.S. Both Oliver Stone and Jim Davis, author of the puerile Garfield comic strip, are known to be sufferers. Those of you out there afflicted should take heart: It doesn't have to impede your life too much. They've accomplished a lot. So can you. Go you!
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:49 PM   #38
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I'm reminded of a certain song by Tool...

*shrugs* Congratulations, Traithe.
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Old 01-20-2005, 01:36 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (WarHound @ Jan. 19 2005,20:49)
I'm reminded of a certain song by Tool...

*shrugs* Congratulations, Traithe.
God I hope it's not their song "Prison Sex."

--matt
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:33 AM   #40
 
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Congrats. But remember... keep the eye on the ole college ball too. Tell Matt to suck eggs during exam time. :-)
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